US Military Not Ready For an Attack On US...

[Bogie]

Not a lot of effort into it either... And I'll bet that if someone from the Washington Post started in asking these kindsa questions, they'd get told to go find something else... Unca Sugah doesn't want Joe and Mary Sixpack to realize just how permeable and unprotected our uncondomizable culture is... And no, a big-ass wall along our southern border ain't gonna do squat to help.
 
Achmed is recruiting in the middle east, and they can trickle in... Achmed is recruiting in our prisons. They'll trickle out. I don't think the next attack will be all that complex, but it'll be big. And "big" doesn't have to be localized. If 100 teams do 100 things in 100 places, they may not kill 3,000 people, but you can bet that they'll drop the Dow back down, and if they do things right, they'll cause one helluva lot more of a ripple effect.
 

 

[roo_ster]

I don't think they have the guys here and I really think you guys are underestimating the logistic hurdles to getting a significant number of folks in place now to actually pull it off, when you have to start from so far away with so many layers of competent people looking for just such activity.

Which is why recruiting those already in the USA is a higher priority than brining in new blood.  Even better, if they can net themselves a 2nd-gen American who speaks perfect English.

It's also been an utter failure-the only people they can consistently rely on are extended family members and a select few recruits from specific middle eastern cities.

They have, in a few isolated cases, gotten English speaking, ethnic westerners to go to Afghanistan to fight their wars against Afghanis.

They have not successfully used such a person in an attack against a Western country even once.

Granted, they have been a failure, since all of the already-here recruits have yet to pull off a high-profile successful operation. 

They have been a success in recruiting, however.  The cells that the FBI has rolled up in the last few years have been 2nd-gen and long-term residents/citizens almost exclusively.

IOW, they are finding willing recruits in the Muslim community in America.  They just have not been all that effective, or our anti-terrorism G-men have been particularly good (depending on who you decide to grant competence or ineptitude).

[Strings]

And remember, there are a certain number of self-professed anarchists on our college campuses that would be willing to cause trouble. That could throw some serious confusion into the mix...

[Manedwolf]

And remember, there are a certain number of self-professed anarchists on our college campuses that would be willing to cause trouble. That could throw some serious confusion into the mix...

How do anarchists organize, anyway?

[Bogie]

Student center debate society.

[De Selby]

I don't think they have the guys here and I really think you guys are underestimating the logistic hurdles to getting a significant number of folks in place now to actually pull it off, when you have to start from so far away with so many layers of competent people looking for just such activity.

Which is why recruiting those already in the USA is a higher priority than brining in new blood.  Even better, if they can net themselves a 2nd-gen American who speaks perfect English.

It's also been an utter failure-the only people they can consistently rely on are extended family members and a select few recruits from specific middle eastern cities.

They have, in a few isolated cases, gotten English speaking, ethnic westerners to go to Afghanistan to fight their wars against Afghanis.

They have not successfully used such a person in an attack against a Western country even once.

Granted, they have been a failure, since all of the already-here recruits have yet to pull off a high-profile successful operation. 

They have been a success in recruiting, however.  The cells that the FBI has rolled up in the last few years have been 2nd-gen and long-term residents/citizens almost exclusively.

IOW, they are finding willing recruits in the Muslim community in America.  They just have not been all that effective, or our anti-terrorism G-men have been particularly good (depending on who you decide to grant competence or ineptitude).

2nd gen-long term residents?  I know of about a dozen cases, none of whom were actually in contact with Al Qaeda personnel.  What are the numbers you've seen for this phenomenon?

The FBI has managed to find literally a handful of such people in its sting operations, and they did so without going to Mosques-there's never been a single verified instance of Al Qaeda doing this in our country, and certainly not in religious centers.  Sorry, but I think you are overstating the case by a wide margin when you say that they find "willing recruits in the Muslim community."

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

never been to school there but from the published excerpts from the cirriculum i'd say the saudi sponsered academy outside dc crosses my line

[De Selby]

never been to school there but from the published excerpts from the cirriculum i'd say the saudi sponsered academy outside dc crosses my line

How many American terrorists have been recruited there so far?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

does fundraising to support groups count?

[De Selby]

does fundraising to support groups count?

Sure-how many are fundraisers for terrorist groups?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://www.sptimes.com/2002/03/21/TampaBay/Suit_labels_Al_Arian_.shtml
http://banking.senate.gov/_files/clarke.pdf
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1311

and this ones swamped me with stuff to sort through for a while
http://www.danielpipes.org/biblio_cair.php

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/library/congress/2003_h/031014-waller.htm

[De Selby]

http://www.sptimes.com/2002/03/21/TampaBay/Suit_labels_Al_Arian_.shtml
http://banking.senate.gov/_files/clarke.pdf
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1311

and this ones swamped me with stuff to sort through for a while
http://www.danielpipes.org/biblio_cair.php

Native born Palestinians and Saudis constitute "homegrown, white or second generation Muslim terrorists"?

Or were you talking about something else in those reports that I don't see?

I don't see a single instance of the people we're talking about working for, or being involved in, terrorism here.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i guess its a case of perspective   from where i sit raising money for em is bad  from yours apparently not.   cair doesn't get any united way money from my neck of the woods

[Manedwolf]

How is it that shootinstudent manages to twist nearly every thread into an "Islamists R Victims" obfuscation worthy of CAIR?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

aw cair is a great group  those quotes of members saying those nasty things are just coincidence
and there is no mafia either

[De Selby]

How is it that shootinstudent manages to twist nearly every thread into an "Islamists R Victims" obfuscation worthy of CAIR?

What exactly is the twist here?

We were debating whether or not terrorist groups had any success in recruiting native born Americans, with the characteristics necessary to blend in as Americans, out of Mosques and religious organizations.

I pointed out that no such person has been recruited for an attack on the United States yet (at least, not that we know of)-and concluded that these so-called "terror mosques" likely don't exist, and that the Muslim religious community here does not yield terrorists.

That there are foreign born terrorists who operated in the US is so obvious it shouldn't even be a topic of discussion; that's a "duh" fact right there.

Let me requote what we were talking about there:

They have been a success in recruiting, however.  The cells that the FBI has rolled up in the last few years have been 2nd-gen and long-term residents/citizens almost exclusively.

IOW, they are finding willing recruits in the Muslim community in America.  They just have not been all that effective, or our anti-terrorism G-men have been particularly good (depending on who you decide to grant competence or ineptitude).

[Firethorn]

I pointed out that no such person has been recruited for an attack on the United States yet (at least, not that we know of)-and concluded that these so-called "terror mosques" likely don't exist, and that the Muslim religious community here does not yield terrorists.

However, the local muslim religious communities have been repeatably tracked back to having provided funding for terrorist organizations.  In many cases, the local organizers of the 'charity' had to know.

In a number of cases, translating the speaches used have resulted in encouragement and positive potrayel of terrorist activities, so that indicates a potential pool of recruits.

Given that I'd be going after the shell-game terrorist funding organizations anyways, at least some monitoring of 'hate speech' should be done.  Whether or not such speech crosses the line into prosecutable areas I'll leave up to the individual situations.

[Tecumseh]

I pointed out that no such person has been recruited for an attack on the United States yet (at least, not that we know of)-and concluded that these so-called "terror mosques" likely don't exist, and that the Muslim religious community here does not yield terrorists.

However, the local muslim religious communities have been repeatably tracked back to having provided funding for terrorist organizations.  In many cases, the local organizers of the 'charity' at had to know.

In a number of cases, translating the speaches used have resulted in encouragement and positive potrayel of terrorist activities, so that indicates a potential pool of recruits.

Given that I'd be going after the shell-game terrorist funding organizations anyways, at least some monitoring of 'hate speech' should be done.  Whether or not such speech crosses the line into prosecutable areas I'll leave up to the individual situations.

  The news has translated the speech?  I guess that they are responsible for recruiting terrorists.

[Firethorn]

The news has translated the speech?  I guess that they are responsible for recruiting terrorists.

Not the news, the authorities.  As for recruiting, they were probably going after first or second generation citizens - ones who still know languages other than english(for the most part).

[De Selby]

I pointed out that no such person has been recruited for an attack on the United States yet (at least, not that we know of)-and concluded that these so-called "terror mosques" likely don't exist, and that the Muslim religious community here does not yield terrorists.

However, the local muslim religious communities have been repeatably tracked back to having provided funding for terrorist organizations.  In many cases, the local organizers of the 'charity' had to know.

Well, this has certainly been alleged, and in the most high profile cases has resulted in acquittals.  The "material support" law is overbroad, and certainly the US congress now understands that since one of its alumni has been charged.

But yeah, those cases that have been prosecuted have involved how many "second generation americans"  I don't know of a single one.