Jeep Concept Car = Halo Warthog

[Declaration Day]

DD - Did they have to though?  I think the Wrangler and Grand Cherokee were selling well enough to justify Jeep's existance.  Then again, maybe Jeep screwed up by putting amenities into the Wrangler.

I'm not qualified to say that they had to do it, as I do not work in the automotive industry.  However, expanding a niche brand's product line for mass appeal is nothing new.  In the last decade, we've seen everything from Porsche SUVs to Jags and Land Rovers that average middle-class people can afford.  Why?  To bring more paying members to the club.

As you mentioned, even the original Jeep, the Wrangler, has been compromised.  You can have two or four doors, a nav system, power locks and windows, even 2WD! (yes, the 4 door has a 2WD option).  Fortunately, you can still buy a no-frills JK Wrangler.

I have a 4.0L YJ that I won't be trading in any time soon.

[AJ Dual]

The Volt is vaporware.

They haven't even developed the battery. They "expect to" sometime in the coming years. Right.

Which I don't find shocking from GM, they increasingly strike me as the company that can't find it's own junk with it's pants down around it's ankles and a full length mirror, but I'd think that the simplicity and engineering savings of such a system would have meant somebody would have one to market by now. Diesel-electric buses, locomotives, and submarines have been around for nearly a century, this is not a new concept by any means.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/12/11/toshibas-new-scib-battery-charges-in-5-minutes-releases-march/

But it looks as though the battery issue is being solved. And the short recharge time sounds perfect for a direct or series hybrid design.

I know there's some startups that should be producing George Jetson three-wheel err.. "pods" that are all plug-in, or direct drive hybrid right now, but IMO it'll have to look like a "real car" to do any better than capture the holier-than-thou Prius market segment.

Even better is if someone would apply the potential for cheap modularity to such a vehicle. Then, with the purchase price, and it costing me only $.60 a night to "fill it up", I'd actually have money for things like a Kel-Tec RFB and a goodly quantity of .308 Win. to indulge my Master Chief fantasies. 

[Perd Hapley]

So what did people do before AC in Texas? Not drive in the warm months, hasn't been all that long since AC was pretty much standard on all 4 wheeled vehicles, even sooner for pickup trucks. 

I don't know about Texas, but they used to have these little triangular windows in the front of the cab.  You really miss those when the AC goes out in your truck.   

[mtnbkr]

So what did people do before AC in Texas? Not drive in the warm months, hasn't been all that long since AC was pretty much standard on all 4 wheeled vehicles, even sooner for pickup trucks.

-C

They probably got sweaty and stank, which isn't a big deal if you did manual labor, but is a problem in an office environment such as the type many of us work in today.

Chris

[Boomhauer]

Trust me, a lot of things that come on todays vehicles are not necessities (and not wanted by me) but A/C does not fall in this catagory.

I balance usefulness verses over-embellishment.
I could do without leather seats, power and heated seats, adjustable pedals, sunroofs (they leak too much), power folding seats, carpet etc.

Power windows, however, are greatly appreciated by me because I can control/operate the windows from the drivers seat. Same as power locks. Just make them ultra durable, and stop having the car automatically lock doors and crap like that, too.

[Bogie]

I think you could make a small, lightweight, CHEAP vehicle that's just as safe as the small, lightweight, EXPENSIVE vehicles on the road today...

I wonder - a tube steel frame (machine cut, machine bent, jigged and welded), with the generator/battery/motor idea could be VERY cool... For that matter, make it rear wheel drive to simplify the front end steering... Just also thought that a styrofoam/plastic composite would be interesting for the side body panels.
 
Volkswagen bug steering/suspension components are readily available, and it shouldn't be that hard figure something to bolt them into...
 
Are taller/skinnier wheels/tires workable?
 
And as for the truck - A dually the size of a Dodge Dakota, with the tires inside would work fine for a lot of stuff... Make the sucker with a one-ton axle, and I'm so there... Build in pylons in the bed so you can stack plywood/drywall above the wheelwells... Or just make it a wheelwell that goes all the way across, and put a trunk/locking storage midships...
 

[CAnnoneer]

I used to think that the Wrangler would be pretty efficient, judging by the look. Then I looked at the actual data and saw 15 mi/ga... 

There already are efficient, light, comfortable, reliable cars with no particular frills - Hyundai compacts. Well, you will have to pay a bit more than the 5k stipulation, but not too much more. By the way, the price of the Mini is a British joke I do not get.

[Bogie]

Take the Hyundai, and don't offer multiple body styles. Don't offer more than one paint, and one interior. One engine. Stick an auto tranny in it (to be kind to everyone). No carpet - spray bedliner on the interior sheetmetal.

Quit coming out with new models every year. Don't redesign your assembly line.
 
I'll bet you could take 25-35% off the price right there.
 

[seeker_two]

It would work except for the AC....gotta have AC in Texas.....

I'd go for the diesel pickup in a heartbeat......

So what did people do before AC in Texas? Not drive in the warm months, hasn't been all that long since AC was pretty much standard on all 4 wheeled vehicles, even sooner for pickup trucks.

-C

We drove our mules really, really fast for the breeze....

[Declaration Day]

I used to think that the Wrangler would be pretty efficient, judging by the look. Then I looked at the actual data and saw 15 mi/ga... 

There already are efficient, light, comfortable, reliable cars with no particular frills - Hyundai compacts. Well, you will have to pay a bit more than the 5k stipulation, but not too much more. By the way, the price of the Mini is a British joke I do not get.

I had a Hyundai compact.  It was a 2001 Accent and it got 30 mpg city / 40 hwy.  It was an utterly reliable car. 

I traded it for my Jeep Wrangler which gets 1/2 the mpg at best, but is 100 times more fun.  Wranglers are inefficient because they have the aerodynamics of a house.

[Manedwolf]

So what did people do before AC in Texas? Not drive in the warm months, hasn't been all that long since AC was pretty much standard on all 4 wheeled vehicles, even sooner for pickup trucks. 

I don't know about Texas, but they used to have these little triangular windows in the front of the cab.  You really miss those when the AC goes out in your truck.   

Airscoop windows, yes. My dad's VW bus he had when I was little had them.

They're great if you're rolling around at speed, as people could do back then. Not of any use if you're sitting in gridlock as people do outside Houston and Dallas now.

[charby]

I think you could make a small, lightweight, CHEAP vehicle that's just as safe as the small, lightweight, EXPENSIVE vehicles on the road today...

I wonder - a tube steel frame (machine cut, machine bent, jigged and welded), with the generator/battery/motor idea could be VERY cool... For that matter, make it rear wheel drive to simplify the front end steering... Just also thought that a styrofoam/plastic composite would be interesting for the side body panels.
 
Volkswagen bug steering/suspension components are readily available, and it shouldn't be that hard figure something to bolt them into...
 
Are taller/skinnier wheels/tires workable?
 
And as for the truck - A dually the size of a Dodge Dakota, with the tires inside would work fine for a lot of stuff... Make the sucker with a one-ton axle, and I'm so there... Build in pylons in the bed so you can stack plywood/drywall above the wheelwells... Or just make it a wheelwell that goes all the way across, and put a trunk/locking storage midships...
 

quit stealing my ideas!

[Tallpine]

What happened to electric wheel motors?  LeTourneau had those developed to a pretty high degree 50 years ago, at least for heavy equipment.  In a car, you could have 1, 2, 3, or 4 wheel drive on demand and depending on the horsepower and traction needs.  And no driveshafts.

I think the real problem that automakers have with a simple modular vehicle, is that someone will buy it and keep it repaired and drive it for 20+ years instead of trading it in every 2 or 3 years. 

Just think, with a true gas- or diesel-electric drive, you could replace the gen-set when it wears out and just keep going.  Electric motors last about forever anyway.

If I was a bit more ambitious about tinkering, I'd take an old compact car or pickup, rip out the engine and tranny and driveshaft, put in a genset and some batteries and bolt an electric motor right to the pinion shaft on the differential

[charby]

The right gas/diesel electric setup could probably run all day on 10 gallons of fuel at highway speeds.

I like the idea of electric motors at all wheels on a 4x4 version. Be fun to switch traction to different wheels when rock hopping.

Maybe even have a battery pack for short distance intown driving stuff, plug it in at night for back and forth to work commuting.

[Firethorn]

I think the real problem that automakers have with a simple modular vehicle, is that someone will buy it and keep it repaired and drive it for 20+ years instead of trading it in every 2 or 3 years. 

I'd actually want it to be more modular in that case - so you can swap in stuff like a MP3/DVD/sat. radio if/when you want to.

Just think, with a true gas- or diesel-electric drive, you could replace the gen-set when it wears out and just keep going.  Electric motors last about forever anyway.

Probably outlast the vehicle itself.  A electric motor can make even a diesel engine look shortlived.  We have electric motors that have been in place and operating for over 40 years.

If I was a bit more ambitious about tinkering, I'd take an old compact car or pickup, rip out the engine and tranny and driveshaft, put in a genset and some batteries and bolt an electric motor right to the pinion shaft on the differential

You'd probably want to leave the driveshaft in.   

But yeah, I've considered it myself.  I just want my truck first, and my current vehicle is still perfectly good.  Heck, maybe I'll drive it until the engine's no longer worth keeping up and transition it then.

Of course, if I do it, I'm going to do it 'right', with an AC motor system, regenerative braking, etc...  Heck, I'll even swap out the diff for a locking one while I'm down there.  I'd also be shooting for a minimum 100 mile range at 70mph.

[Bogie]

That's another thing - we _like_ 70mph, but we don't _need_ it... If I drive my van at 55, I get a LOT better mileage than at 65-70... And if I'm pulling the trailer... Ouch!

Add in things like fast zero to sixty times, and you can really hurt yourself. Slow down. Burn less. Live longer.

[Ben]

You know, if one of the US automakers came up with a CHEAP car, they'd sell a bundle...

Here ya go. 




World's cheapest car goes on show
   
Tata Nano
The car is designed for family use in India

The unveiling
Tata Motors has unveiled the world's cheapest motor car at India's biggest car show in the capital, Delhi.

The vehicle, called the Tata Nano, will sell for 100,000 rupees or $2,500 (?1,277) and enable those in developing countries to move to four wheels.

The four-door five-seater car, which goes on sale later this year, has a 33bhp, 624cc, engine at the rear.

It has no air conditioning, no electric windows and no power steering, but two deluxe models will be on offer.

See key features that make the Tata Nano so cheap

Tata will initially make about 250,000 Nanos and expects eventual annual demand of one million cars.

The price will be slightly more than the 100,000 once tax and other costs are taken into consideration.

The Nano release comes as India's domestic car market is predicted to soar in the coming years on the back of the country's fast-growing economy and increased consumer wealth.

'People's car'

Indian car sales are predicted to more than quadruple to $145bn by 2016.

Company chairman Ratan Tata said the launch of the Nano was a landmark in the history of transportation.

   
Tata Motors' engineers and designers gave their all for about four years to realise this goal
Ratan Tata, Tata Motors

Send us your comments
Indians get ready for Nano

He said the car was "a safe, affordable and all weather transport - a people's car, designed to meet all safety standards and emissions laws and accessible to all".

Environmental critics have said that the car will lead to mounting air and pollution problems on India's already clogged roads.

But Tata said the car had passed emission standards and would average about 50 miles to the gallon, or five litres per hundred kilometres.

The firm also said it would introduce a diesel version of the Nano at a later date.

'Family transport'

At the unveiling ceremony Mr Tata said: "I observed families riding on two-wheelers - the father driving the scooter, his young kid standing in front of him, his wife seated behind him holding a little baby.

   
TATA'S NANO
3.1m long, 1.5m wide, 1.6m high
Can seat four to five people
Meets European emission standards
Costs 100,000 rupees ($2,500)
Tata hopes to eventually export the car
Source: AFP

"It led me to wonder whether one could conceive of a safe, affordable, all-weather form of transport for such a family.

"Tata Motors' engineers and designers gave their all for about four years to realise this goal.

"Today, we indeed have a People's Car, which is affordable and yet built to meet safety requirements and emission norms, to be fuel efficient and low on emissions."

Ravi Vangala, of Hyderbad, India, said: "I... congratulate Tata for his dream, and I will definitely buy the Tata Nano car."

[Racehorse]

I've seen the Nano before. If they're ever sold in the U.S. and don't fall apart after 6 months, I'd buy one as a commuter car.

[Bogie]

For folks who live in a city, that seems to me to be pretty much _the_ model... 45mph is plenty, if all the speed limits are 35...
 
But hey, a slightly larger engine/transaxle, add two airbags, and you could probably have a car capable of sustained 55mph... Probably for under $5K, probably with better than 40mpg...

[mtnbkr]

For folks who live in a city, that seems to me to be pretty much _the_ model... 45mph is plenty, if all the speed limits are 35...
 
But hey, a slightly larger engine/transaxle, add two airbags, and you could probably have a car capable of sustained 55mph... Probably for under $5K, probably with better than 40mpg...

There are plenty of cars available now, with AC, airbags, power steering, etc that get over 40mpg on the highway and in the high 30s around town.  They're frequently available used for $6k or less. 

I had a 1993 Toyota Paseo that would cruise through the mountains all day at 70mph+, getting 40mpg+ the entire time.  I even got as high as 45mpg a few times.  Around town, it got 30mph+.

My parents have a 2007 Toyota Corolla that gets even better mileage with an automatic transmission and AC with two adults and their luggage.  It's more than $5k currently though, but it'll be available for that price on the used market in a few years (not theirs, but others like it).

Chris

[Ben]

Environmentalists are already alarmed by the Nano:

The Peoples Car is much like a similar product once created in Germany, the Volkswagen Beetle. They both are four door cars with 600cc engines located in the rear. The car will be manufactured in Kolkata, and the factory has an initial capacity of 250,000 units a year. The car will be publicly unveiled on Thursday.

Environmentalists are getting a bit freaked out over the idea. India, particularly the cities, already face severe congestion and high pollution levels. Pollution experts believe a drastic cut in car prices could have devastating consequences on both pollution levels and Indias already overtaxed roads. While the car is small and likely fuel efficient, the massive increase in car ownership worries many.

Anumita Roychoudhury, of the Centre for Science and Environment in Delhi said: There is this mad rush towards lowering the prices to achieve mass affordability. If vehicle ownership increases very rapidly, well have a time bomb ticking away. When you lower the price that drastically, how will you be able to meet the safety and emissions standards? There are no clear answers yet.?

http://www.enn.com/energy/article/28796

[Bogie]

Methinx that the envirowackos would rather have 3-4 people dying in a scooter wreck, than living in a the nanocage...
 
Plus, with this, there exists the possibility of increased carpooling.
 

[Manedwolf]

That name would have to go if it came here. Especially if someone owned more than one.

"Hey, cute Tatas."
*SLAP*

 

[charby]

Well we do have the smart car, but it is priced $7000 more than it should be.

From the website http://www.smartusa.com/

We are happy to announce that pricing for the smart fortwo has been determined. The smart fortwo pure will start at $11,590, the smart fortwo passion coupe will start at $13,590 and the smart fortwo passion cabriolet will start at $16,590.

I had a 92 Geo Metro with an auto that got 43 mpg on highway consistantly. Why don't they start building those again?

[Bogie]

Because GM and the auto companies would rather sell a new car every 3-4 years (or faster) so that people can keep up with automotive style.

My automobile is NOT an extension of my personality. If someone could convince GM to take that Metro, and all the mechanical drawings, etc., and build another assembly line, and NOT CHANGE IT for ten years, they could drive Hyundai out of the low end market.