Author Topic: Another perv congressman?  (Read 21172 times)

Manedwolf

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2007, 10:18:43 AM »
The measure of character is what someone does when they think no-one is looking.

wmenorr67

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2007, 10:27:37 AM »
jfruser,

I agree with you 100% in your latest statement.

Manedwolf,

I have heard that statement before and can't disagree with it.
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MechAg94

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2007, 12:29:39 PM »
I agree Manedwolf, but I thought somebody had to say that.  Cheesy 

Mention Clinton's name and I hear that excuse all the time. 
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2007, 12:39:28 PM »
Was he anti-gay or just anti-gay-marriage? 

There is no difference. 
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Paddy

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2007, 02:49:29 PM »
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Sen. Craig will be forced to resign.

Really? He skated the first time. Deja vu all over again:

On June 11, 2007, Senator Craig was arrested at the Minneapolis-Saint Paul International Airport on suspicion of lewd conduct. He pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of disorderly conduct on August 8, 2007, in a Hennepin County, Minnesota court.[22] He paid $575 including fines and fees and was given one year of unsupervised probation. A 10-day jail sentence was stayed.[23][24] According to Roll Call, the arresting officer sat in a bathroom stall as part of an undercover operation investigating previous reports of sexual activity in the bathroom. After about 13 minutes of sitting in the stall, he observed Craig linger outside and frequently peek through the stall's door crack at him. Craig then entered the stall next to his. The officer filed the following in his report of the incident as to what happened next:

    At 1216 hours, Craig tapped his right foot. I recognized this as a signal used by persons wishing to engage in lewd conduct. Craig tapped his toes several times and moves his foot closer to my foot.... The presence of others did not seem to deter Craig as he moved his right foot so that it touched the side of my left foot which was within my stall area. Craig then proceeded to swipe his hand under the stall divider several times.[25]

Craig stated "that he has a wide stance when going to the bathroom and that his foot may have touched mine," the arrest report states. Craig also told the arresting officer that he reached down with his right hand to pick up a piece of paper that was on the floor. "It should be noted that there was not a piece of paper on the bathroom floor, nor did Craig pick up a piece of paper," the arresting officer said in the report.

According to the police report, at one point Craig handed the plainclothes sergeant who arrested him a business card that identified him as a U.S. Senator and said, "What do you think about that?"[26]

In a press release on his website, Craig said that the officer misconstrued his actions, that he was not involved in any inappropriate conduct, and had failed to seek legal counsel: "In hindsight, I should not have pled guilty. I was trying to handle this matter myself quickly and expeditiously."[27]

As a result of this arrest, the Senator has removed himself from his role in Mitt Romney's presidential campaign.[24]

The full arrest report can be read here.

In a press release on his website, Craig said that the officer misconstrued his actions, that he was not involved in any inappropriate conduct, and had failed to seek legal counsel: "In hindsight, I should not have pled guilty. I was trying to handle this matter myself quickly and expeditiously."[28]

As a result of this arrest, the Senator has removed himself from his role in Mitt Romney's presidential campaign.[24] In an interview, Romney said of Craig, "Hes disappointed the American people."[29]

In an August 28, 2007, Wall Street Journal, James Taranto, recently noted in an opinion piece that the recent "outing" of Sen. Craig and calls of his hypocrisy by all sides appear to be fueling more anti-gay hyesteria than understading his predicament, with Mitt Romney, calling Craig's actions "disgusting.". As Taranto noted "To single out those who are for special vituperation is itself a form of antigay prejudice. Liberals pride themselves on their compassion, but often are unwilling to extend it to those with whose politics they disagree." And so, whatever Mr. Craigs political policies are, Taranto appears to be saying that the only ones getting hurt are gay people. Likewise, he notes "But there is nothing hypocritical about someone who is homosexual, believes homosexuality is wrong, and keeps his homosexuality under wraps. To the contrary, he is acting consistent with his beliefs. If he has furtive encounters in men's rooms, that is an act of weakness, not hypocrisy."[30]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Craig

Tallpine

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2007, 03:24:46 PM »
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the arresting officer sat in a bathroom stall as part of an undercover operation investigating previous reports of sexual activity in the bathroom

Geeze, I wonder how badly you have to screw up to get that assignment  shocked
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Manedwolf

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2007, 03:38:21 PM »
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the arresting officer sat in a bathroom stall as part of an undercover operation investigating previous reports of sexual activity in the bathroom

Geeze, I wonder how badly you have to screw up to get that assignment  shocked

Maybe they were just confused? They'd been assigned to vice on prostitution, and were told to "look for johns"?  grin

K Frame

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2007, 05:17:38 PM »
In terms of this particular man with apparent gay interests having a viciously anti-gay record (in line with the rest of his party)?


Now that I'm done laughing, I wonder if you could explain what constitutes a "viciously anti-gay record."  I mean, not just "anti-gay" but viciously "anti-gay."


My question exactly. Perhaps not climbing the outside of the Capitol dome and unfurling a "I Support Gay Marriage" banner is evidence of his being viciously anti-gay...

Oh, I know.

He's actually come out (no pun intended) and said that marriage should be between a man and woman.

Hell, that makes him worse that Hitler and Stalin combined.
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Nitrogen

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2007, 06:05:08 PM »
Hey, this is his personal life.  His personal life shouldn't matter.  How dare you judge him!!   angel angel angel

I mostly agree with you.  If he wanted to be a gay man, thats his business.  If he wants to be against gay issues, thats also his (and his constituents) issues.

It was his personal life until he got arrested for it. 

Having calmed down and really thought about this; I think it's pretty sad.  I've known a few closeted gays, and they tend to act like this because they don't feel free to be who they are.  Sex is a pretty basic human desire, and if your desires go against what you think is proper, you'll go about doing things that let you satisfy that desire in ways that don't get you "found out."

The sad thing is, that this man felt so conflicted that he had to go through this crazy, rotten process to, well, you know.
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wooderson

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2007, 06:17:12 PM »
What's 'viciously anti-gay'? Abandoning (alleged) conservative principles and hacking for a Constitutional amendment on gay marriage and consistently attacking the entire concept of marriage and civil unions. Do you honestly think that an entire party turning 'gay rights' into an issue in the run-up to 2004 was anything other than attempt to scapegoat homosexuals as a wedge issue?

Not that I expect better from the party of the Southern Strategy, mind you.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2007, 06:22:09 PM »
In other words, all Republicans are viciously anti-gay. 

Got it.

 rolleyes

wooderson

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2007, 07:02:16 PM »
Nah, there are plenty who aren't homophobes. They put up with Santorums and the Mel Martinezes and the et al. of the party to further other goals.

But the functioning party itself? Absolutely.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2007, 07:10:56 PM »
Quote
I've known a few closeted gays, and they tend to act like this because they don't feel free to be who they are.  Sex is a pretty basic human desire, and if your desires go against what you think is proper, you'll go about doing things that let you satisfy that desire in ways that don't get you "found out."

Of course, if he had just did it with other guys, all would have been fine.   rolleyes  Oh, and "gays" is not a word.  Try "homosexuals."   

Quote
What's 'viciously anti-gay'? Abandoning (alleged) conservative principles and hacking for a Constitutional amendment on gay marriage and consistently attacking the entire concept of marriage and civil unions. Do you honestly think that an entire party turning 'gay rights' into an issue in the run-up to 2004 was anything other than attempt to scapegoat homosexuals as a wedge issue?

So we had you nailed pretty good.  Sorry, that word is a bit too suggestive in this thread, huh?   smiley

It is entirely disingenuous to blame conservatives for "turning 'gay rights' into an issue."  We were not the ones trying to expand marriage laws to include homosexual relationships.  In that fight, we are merely trying to keep govt. from expanding.  Homosexuals simply can't make a case that they need govt. oversight of their bedroom activities.  Isn't that what they're always opposing, anyway?  "Keep govt. out of the bedroom," and such?

Look, I understand why some benighted souls believe that it's "anti-gay" to oppose legal recognition of homosexual "marriage."  Never mind that many homosexuals don't support it, either.  Never mind that "homosexual marriage" makes as much sense as a two-sided triangle.  If you want to look for two-sided triangles, feel free.  I just don't want you getting any govt. grants for it. 

But to characterize opposition to homosexual marriage as "vicious" is just silly.  In any case, one must wonder how people can bear the irony of abandoning any sexual morals, then demanding that others practice their fictional version of fairness or tolerance.

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K Frame

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2007, 07:39:20 PM »
"Do you honestly think that an entire party turning 'gay rights' into an issue in the run-up to 2004 was anything other than attempt to scapegoat homosexuals as a wedge issue?"

That's funny, I remember gays making gay rights an issue in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s, before it became a central plan in the Republican platform. Don't ask don't tell in the US Military? Which party make that a core "value"?


And you know, it's always amused me quite a bit how a Christian who is against gay marriage is a homophobe and a bigot, but a gay who savages someone based on their religious beliefs isn't a bigot, but is in fact a beacon of enlightenment.

Nah, that's not a double standard.
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wooderson

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2007, 07:44:08 PM »
Quote
It is entirely disingenuous to blame conservatives for "turning 'gay rights' into an issue."
No, it's not. Conservatives were behind DOMA. Were behind the various amendment proposals. Were behind the state to state campaigns organized to drum up the base for 2004.

Your argument is akin to giving the Dixiecrats a pass on the politicization of race, because civil rights workers 'made it into an issue.'

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Homosexuals simply can't make a case that they need govt. oversight of their bedroom activities.
You're in a car wreck and a determination needs to be made about your medical care - your wife gets to make the call.

How does that work for a lesbian couple?


Quote
In that fight, we are merely trying to keep govt. from expanding.
DOMA and a Constitutional amendment usurping state powers keeps govt. from expanding? Pardon my gut-laugh.

There is no expansion of government power in terms of 'legalizing' gay marriage - the state already has procedures in place for marriage. They require no alterations.

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But to characterize opposition to homosexual marriage as "vicious" is just silly.
I didn't say opposition was - try again.

What I said was that such obvious scapegoating - the millenial equivalent of Jesse Helms' "white hands" campaign - and the abrogation of cherished 'conservative' principles was vicious.
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wooderson

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2007, 07:45:56 PM »
Quote
I remember gays making gay rights an issue in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s, before it became a central plan in the Republican platform.
"I remember black Americans making voting rights/education/miscegenation an issue in the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s before  it became a central plank among the Dixiecrats."

Quote
And you know, it's always amused me quite a bit how a Christian who is against gay marriage is a homophobe and a bigot, but a gay who savages someone based on their religious beliefs isn't a bigot, but is in fact a beacon of enlightenment.
That's a mighty fine strawman there.
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wooderson

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2007, 07:51:33 PM »
On the off-chance the Dixiecrat comparison wasn't clear: it's never a question of who raises the issue - obviously the party feeling aggrieved attempts to make themselves heard. It's who, in reaction, tries to use the issue as a political weapon to divide people and bolster their ranks.

But I know, 'wingers are just 'trying to protect their way of life, right? Never mind that nothing about striking down sodomy laws (another one vociferously opposed by the GOP at large) or legalizing gay marriage or simply staying the hell out of anyone's business poses a threat to their religion or beliefs. Nobody's making the Pentecostal preacher down the road marry Fred and Ted - just like they aren't making him marry a pair of Catholics today. Nobody's making anyone be less of a bigot - only that the state no longer discriminate.
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K Frame

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2007, 08:05:44 PM »
"Conservatives were behind DOMA."

Wow! That's a shock!

That's almost as shocking as the fact that GAYS and LIBERALS have been agitating the issue for FAR longer than there has been an organized Republican response, and have been demanding legislation favorable to their pet beliefs for FAR longer than there has been an organized conservative opposition. But that's immaterial, right?

Who the hell do you think would have been behind it? The Chinese Communists?

And do you think there ever would have been a DOMA push-back from those who believe that homosexuality is aberrant and sin had it not been for the vocal proponents of such measures?

In essence, what you're bitching about is the simple fact that those with a different belief set said "Nope, that's not going to stand, I don't believe it in for (insert rational here) so I'm going to oppose it politically."

That's not bigotry, that's not viciousness, that's people organizing and standing up for what they believe in.

That's the way the political process in this country works.

It's pretty damned telling that the ONLY combined counter response that the gay community is capable of mustering is the attempt to paint opponents of their pet projects as narrow-minded bigots.

And that's simply pathetic.
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Antibubba

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2007, 08:07:16 PM »
Quote
It is not a positive attribute, IMO, but better than having the likes of Craig advocating for what is wrong.  The preferable situation is for congresscritters to both act and advocate for what is right.

Nobody said he has to advocate for gay rights.  But to denounce something out of one side of your mouth and engage in it with the other (and in this case, that is not merely metaphor)--well, whatever comes down on him is richly deserved.  He could have spoken strongly on any number of conservative issues, and simply let this one pass.

Then again, it's usually the ones against it most strongly--whatever "it" is--who are most vociferously against it, as if publicly condemning it will somehow exorcize them of their desires.

And, PLEASE, can we not let this thread degenerate into a "gay vs homo" thread?  This is about hypocrisy, not about a particular behavior.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2007, 08:13:14 PM »
Quote
It is entirely disingenuous to blame conservatives for "turning 'gay rights' into an issue."
No, it's not. Conservatives were behind DOMA. Were behind the various amendment proposals. Were behind the state to state campaigns organized to drum up the base for 2004.

Your argument is akin to giving the Dixiecrats a pass on the politicization of race, because civil rights workers 'made it into an issue.'

The civil rights workers did make it into an issue.  That doesn't make them wrong or right, it just means that they were the ones pushing the issue into the spotlight.  That is exactly what homosexuals have done, and explicitly based on the same model.  The same cannot be said for conservatives.  All those vicious things that you listed?  Those were responses to a vocal minority, pushing for change.  No matter what side of the issue you're on, you have to acknowledge the fact that the pro-homosexual movement started the discussion. 

Quote
Quote
Homosexuals simply can't make a case that they need govt. oversight of their bedroom activities.
You're in a car wreck and a determination needs to be made about your medical care - your wife gets to make the call.

How does that work for a lesbian couple?
How does that work for two good friends who live together, but don't have sex?  Or for two old widowers who have been taking care of each other since their wives passed away?  If this issue needs to be addressed, do it in a way that treats everyone equally, not in a way that grants special privileges based on odd sexual practices. 

Quote
Quote
In that fight, we are merely trying to keep govt. from expanding.
DOMA and a Constitutional amendment usurping state powers keeps govt. from expanding? Pardon my gut-laugh.  There is no expansion of government power in terms of 'legalizing' gay marriage - the state already has procedures in place for marriage. They require no alterations.

Actually, I'm not sure I agree with DOMA or any proposed amendment to the U.S. Constitution.  But regardless, putting govt. in the business of licensing Steve and Lester to sleep together is a growth of govt.  Not to mention that govt. will be involved again when they divorce. 


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But to characterize opposition to homosexual marriage as "vicious" is just silly.
I didn't say opposition was - try again.  What I said was that such obvious scapegoating - the millenial equivalent of Jesse Helms' "white hands" campaign - and the abrogation of cherished 'conservative' principles was vicious.
No, you try again.  This attempt to weasel out of what you said is just as silly as the statement itself.  Obvious scape-goating.   rolleyes 
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K Frame

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #45 on: August 28, 2007, 08:13:28 PM »
""I remember black Americans making voting rights/education/miscegenation an issue in the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s before  it became a central plank among the Dixiecrats.""

Yep, here we go. I wondered when this would come up...

The OTHER favorite plank of some in this particular movement.

Gays are the new black men!

HOMO! GO SIT IN THE BACK OF THE BUS! AND DON'T YOU EVEN THINK ABOUT DRINKING FROM THAT FOUNTAIN OR USING THAT WASHROOM! THOSE FACILITIES ARE FOR STRAIGHT PEOPLE ONLY!

Get off it.

It's a comparison that doesn't fly. What I don't understand is why the black community, a community that suffered TRUE disenfranchisement, TRUE discrimination, and TRUE persecution, allows its collective memory and suffering to be co-opted in such a cynical and shallow manner.

You'll have to do one hell of a lot better than that.
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Paddy

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #46 on: August 28, 2007, 08:14:57 PM »
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You're in a car wreck and a determination needs to be made about your medical care - your wife gets to make the call.

How does that work for a lesbian couple?

That's another specious argument.  The answer to your question is simple.   Every state has a provision for appointing an 'Agent for Healthcare'. Fill out a form, sign it, and have it notarized. Name anyone you want as your agent, legal POA.  And everyone, including heterosexual married couples, should have an Advance Healthcare Directive.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #47 on: August 28, 2007, 08:19:36 PM »
On the off-chance the Dixiecrat comparison wasn't clear: it's never a question of who raises the issue - obviously the party feeling aggrieved attempts to make themselves heard. It's who, in reaction, tries to use the issue as a political weapon to divide people and bolster their ranks.

Oooh, we're dividing people.  What does that even mean?  As for bolstering the ranks, well, you caught us.  The Democrats had taken the unpopular side of a controversy, and we shamefully benefited from it.  I feel so dirty.   rolleyes


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Paddy

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #48 on: August 28, 2007, 08:21:40 PM »
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This is about hypocrisy, not about a particular behavior.

Thank you. Because homosexuality is indeed a behavior.  It isn't a state, or a condition, like being black or blind, or deaf or otherwise handicapped.

It's a behavior.  It's something you do, not what you are.

K Frame

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Re: Another perv congressman?
« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2007, 08:23:01 PM »
"And everyone, including heterosexual married couples, should have an Advance Healthcare Directive."

I keep meaning to do that, but I'm terrified that if I name Mtnbkr as my AHD individual, he'll finally let Abby tee off on me to get my guns and money...
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