Author Topic: Spy satellite could hit the USA, but DoD will shoot it down first (Merged threads)  (Read 23763 times)

Tecumseh

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  MSNBC.com
Large spy satellite could hit North America
U.S. military developing contingency plans to deal with possibility
By Lolita C. Baldor
The Associated Press
updated 6:17 p.m. CT, Tues., Jan. 29, 2008

WASHINGTON - The U.S. military is developing contingency plans to deal with the possibility that a large spy satellite expected to fall to Earth in late February or early March could hit North America.

Air Force Gen. Gene Renuart, who heads U.S. Northern Command, told The Associated Press on Tuesday that the size of the satellite suggests that some number of pieces will not burn up as the orbiting vehicle re-enters the Earth's atmosphere and will hit the ground.

"We're aware that this satellite is out there," Renuart said. "We're aware it is a fairly substantial size. And we know there is at least some percentage that it could land on ground as opposed to in the water."

A U.S. official confirmed that the spy satellite, which lost power and no longer can be controlled, was launched in December 2006 and could weigh as much as 10,000 pounds. It carried a sophisticated and secret imaging sensor but the satellite's central computer failed shortly after launch.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the information is classified as secret, said the satellite is designated by the military as US 193, but it never reached its final orbit and the Pentagon declared it a total loss in early 2007.

Renuart added that, "As it looks like it might re-enter into the North American area," then the U.S. military along with the Homeland Security Department and the Federal Emergency Management Agency will either have to deal with the impact or assist Canadian or Mexican authorities.

Military agencies, he said, are doing an analysis to determine which pieces most likely would survive re-entry. But he cautioned that officials won't have much detail on where or when it will crash until it begins to move through the atmosphere and break up.

Renuart added that there does not as yet appear to be much concern about sensitive technologies on the satellite falling into enemy hands.

"I'm not aware that we have a security issue," he said. "It's really just a big thing falling on the ground that we want to make sure we're prepared for."

The satellite includes some small engines that contain a toxic chemical called hydrazine  which is rocket fuel. But Renuart said they are not large booster engines with substantial amounts of fuel.

Initial estimates were that the satellite would take years to degrade and re-enter the atmosphere.

Video images of the satellite captured by John Locker, a British amateur satellite watcher, show it to be about 13 feet to 16.5 feet across. Locker calculated its size with data on its altitude and location provided by other amateur satellite watchers, using the International Space Station as a yardstick.



Satellite watchers  a worldwide network of hobbyists who track satellites for fun  have been plotting the satellite's degradation for a year. They estimate it is now at an altitude of about 173 miles, and Locker believes it is dropping about 1,640 feet a day.

Where it lands will be difficult to predict until the satellite falls to about 59 miles above the Earth and enters the atmosphere. It will then begin to burn up, with flares visible from the ground, said Ted Molczan, a Canadian satellite tracker. From that point on, he said, it will take about 30 minutes to fall.

In the past 50 years of monitoring space, 17,000 manmade objects have re-entered the Earth's atmosphere.
? 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22904031/
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? 2008 MSNBC.com

Interesting.

280plus

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2008, 03:18:37 PM »
Best get out the tin foil hats. Just in case...  shocked
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2008, 04:48:46 PM »
If I find it, do I get to keep it?  Like salvage?
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The Viking

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2008, 04:52:26 PM »
If I find it, do I get to keep it?  Like salvage?
I wonder if one couldn't do something fun with any rocket fuel found...

Standing Wolf

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2008, 05:42:03 PM »
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It carried a sophisticated and secret imaging sensor but the satellite's central computer failed shortly after launch.

I'll stick with Macintosh, thanks all the same.
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Sergeant Bob

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2008, 05:44:31 PM »
If I find it, do I get to keep it?  Like salvage?

Wasn't there some guy up your way who was impaled by a chunk of satellite and buried with the piece still protruding from him? In some town named Cicely or something?  cool
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charby

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2008, 06:30:11 PM »
I might have to sit on the deck drinking beer and watch it burn up in the atmosphere.

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S. Williamson

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2008, 08:42:43 PM »
Didn't some movie start out like this? Fantastic 4 or something?  shocked  cool
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Paddy

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2008, 08:44:09 PM »
And I care.....................why?

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2008, 08:46:39 PM »
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And I care.....................why?
You didn't see Space Cowboys?

Then you couldn't possibly understand. :p

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2008, 08:47:55 PM »
SUPERPOWERS!  grin

Actually... I think I remember which movie it was.  If you turn on all the captions (both on the DVD and on your TV) for Shaun of the Dead, you can pick up snippets talking about it.

Well, time to unlock all the SHTF threads all the mods have been silencing...  angel
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"The chances of finding out what's really going on are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
"And are you?"
"No, that's where it all falls apart I'm afraid. Pity, it sounds like quite a nice lifestyle otherwise."
-Douglas Adams

Perd Hapley

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2008, 08:52:20 PM »
If I find it, do I get to keep it?  Like salvage?

Wasn't there some guy up your way who was impaled by a chunk of satellite and buried with the piece still protruding from him? In some town named Cicely or something?  cool


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Manedwolf

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2008, 08:56:59 PM »
If I find it, do I get to keep it?  Like salvage?
I wonder if one couldn't do something fun with any rocket fuel found...

You don't want to have anything to do with hydrazine or any of the hypergol fuels currently used on spacecraft. Basically, if they're exposed to the air and you're close enough to see it, it's hurting or killing you. Incredibly toxic and it can explode into a massive fireball. Evil stuff.

It's why plants that make such fuels have "everyone out NOW!" slide tubes from all levels if even a whiff escapes.

S. Williamson

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2008, 08:59:57 PM »
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Symptoms of acute exposure to high levels of hydrazine in humans may include irritation of the eyes, nose, and throat, dizziness, headache, nausea, pulmonary edema, seizures, coma, and it can also damage the liver, kidneys, and central nervous system. The liquid is corrosive and may produce dermatitis from skin contact in humans and animals. Effects to the lungs, liver, spleen, and thyroid have been reported in animals chronically exposed to hydrazine via inhalation. Increased incidences of lung, nasal cavity, and liver tumors have been observed in rodents exposed to hydrazine. 

Like I said. Zombies.  undecided
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"The chances of finding out what's really going on are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
"And are you?"
"No, that's where it all falls apart I'm afraid. Pity, it sounds like quite a nice lifestyle otherwise."
-Douglas Adams

Scarecrow

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2008, 09:51:21 PM »
what ever happened to project star wars? I thought we were supposed to be able to shoot stuff like this down by now...
I used to be so indecisive.... now I'm not so sure.

Manedwolf

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2008, 10:10:21 PM »
We probably can shoot down a satellite, but that makes a cloud of high-speed debris that can wreck many other satellites and endanger the shuttle.

lupinus

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2008, 10:19:14 AM »
why can't we just launch some missiles at the thing and blow it up?

Yeah yeah, shotgun effect.

But, things burn up in the atmosphere as they fall to Earth.  Problem seems to be it's to big to burn up.  You blow it up into a bunch of little piece they should all burn up.

Take a bowl of hot water and throw a chunk of ice in and in another bowl the same volume but as ice chips.  Which melts quicker?

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Manedwolf

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2008, 10:21:16 AM »
why can't we just launch some missiles at the thing and blow it up?

Yeah yeah, shotgun effect.

But, things burn up in the atmosphere as they fall to Earth.  Problem seems to be it's to big to burn up.  You blow it up into a bunch of little piece they should all burn up.

Take a bowl of hot water and throw a chunk of ice in and in another bowl the same volume but as ice chips.  Which melts quicker?

If you hit something with a missile, basic physics says that not all of it is going to come down. Pieces will fly off on other vectors, and with significantly less mass, might depart the explosion with significant velocity. They might well stay up there, imperiling manned spacecraft.

This is why you don't blow up satellites, and why everyone was pissed at the Chinese test.

What we ought to have is robot craft, just a thruster with OMS jets that can go up and clamp to a dead satellite to perform a controlled deorbit. Pay the Russians to send it up.

Fly320s

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2008, 04:48:55 AM »
I might have to sit on the deck drinking beer and watch it burn up in the atmosphere.
Remember, if the position of the satellite doesn't move in your view, run.  Don't forget the beer.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2008, 05:46:08 AM »
What we ought to have is robot craft, just a thruster with OMS jets that can go up and clamp to a dead satellite to perform a controlled deorbit. Pay the Russians to send it up.

Amen. And there's tons of concepts for such systems on the drawing board too.

IIRC there's been actual demonstration satellites of the semi-autonomous locate and rendezvous features needed, but nothing actually that does the "grab it and thrust it" part yet...
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Azrael256

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2008, 05:53:48 AM »
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"grab it and thrust it"
Uhm...

AJ, tell me about your mother...

The Viking

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2008, 06:24:25 AM »
If I find it, do I get to keep it?  Like salvage?
I wonder if one couldn't do something fun with any rocket fuel found...

You don't want to have anything to do with hydrazine or any of the hypergol fuels currently used on spacecraft. Basically, if they're exposed to the air and you're close enough to see it, it's hurting or killing you. Incredibly toxic and it can explode into a massive fireball. Evil stuff.

It's why plants that make such fuels have "everyone out NOW!" slide tubes from all levels if even a whiff escapes.
Well, that takes the fun out of it Tongue.

Tallpine

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2008, 06:30:10 AM »
Well, we could always hope that this thing hits Washington DC Wink
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coppertales

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2008, 06:44:17 AM »
Now is a good time to test that new hot to trot anti missile system.  Little pieces burn up much easier than big ones.  The wreckage would not threaten any satellites up there as the bus would be too low on re entry.....chris3

charby

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Re: Spy Sattelite Could hit the USA...
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2008, 06:58:18 AM »
Now is a good time to test that new hot to trot anti missile system.  Little pieces burn up much easier than big ones.  The wreckage would not threaten any satellites up there as the bus would be too low on re entry.....chris3

What if we miss and hit a Black Angus in the butt somewhere in Nebraska?


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