unfortunates....constant poor decision making or bad luck?

[Guest]

Fine. Point out to me the error of my ways. Explain to me what it is that I spend money on frivously. Tell me which days I don't work hard enough to justify my existence. Feel free to give me advice on how to make a paycheck last longer. I'm listening.

But by all means, ignore the fact that I work a 12-14 hour day when you include the commute, that I have a college degree, that I have a vehicle with 240k miles on it and that we typically only eat at restaurants on birthdays. I save a very small amount each month towards retirement. I pay for braces and health insurance and furnace repairs and vet bills and new alternators and student loan payments.

No Lexus, no manicures. No crack habits or fancy living.

And still, one illness or accident, and I'm done.

[The Rabbi]

Fine. Point out to me the error of my ways. Explain to me what it is that I spend money on frivously. Tell me which days I don't work hard enough to justify my existence. Feel free to give me advice on how to make a paycheck last longer. I'm listening.

But by all means, ignore the fact that I work a 12-14 hour day when you include the commute, that I have a college degree, that I have a vehicle with 240k miles on it and that we typically only eat at restaurants on birthdays. I save a very small amount each month towards retirement. I pay for braces and health insurance and furnace repairs and vet bills and new alternators and student loan payments.

No Lexus, no manicures. No crack habits or fancy living.

And still, one illness or accident, and I'm done.

I'm sure we all feel for you.

[Guest]

I don't need you to feel for me. I don't need you to do anything for me at all. I'm also not going to pretend things are lovely for everyone who works hard. They aren't.

FWIW, I could have been collecting money from the state for taking care of my kids because their original parents left them, but I never have because they're my responsibility. I deal with it. I'll continue to deal with it. We do fine. But what I won't do is pretend some people's world view isn't hooey, when I can see with my own eyes that it is.

Those rat catchers will never be oil barons, no matter how hard they work. The best they can hope for is that their grandchildren might be. I'm never going to be very well off. The best I can hope for is that I've given my kids enough that they will be comfortable.

[The Rabbi]

I don't need you to feel for me. I don't need you to do anything for me at all. I'm also not going to pretend things are lovely for everyone who works hard. They aren't.

FWIW, I could have been collecting money from the state for taking care of my kids because their original parents left them, but I never have because they're my responsibility. I deal with it. I'll continue to deal with it. We do fine. But what I won't do is pretend some people's world view isn't hooey, when I can see with my own eyes that it is.

Those rat catchers will never be oil barons, no matter how hard they work. The best they can hope for is that their grandchildren might be. I'm never going to be very well off. The best I can hope for is that I've given my kids enough that they will be comfortable.

You keep posting how hard you work and little you have and poor lonesome you. So you must want something from us. That isn't a refutation of the basic point of the thread.  Actually its a confirmation of it.  People make choices in their lives and then have the consequences.  Many people make bad choices and then blame it on luck, or the system, or their ex brother in law or whatever.  That is the "hooey" you refer to in your post.
Those rat catchers will never amount to much because they are living in India.  When their children finally move here they will own motels.  That story has been repeated thousands upon thousands of times.

[Felonious Monk/Fignozzle]

I was declined to purchase a home recently, because my credit rating unexpainably (at least, none of the big 3 agencies nor 2 other 'credit repair companies' could tell me why) dropped over 100 points AFTER I sold my home in TN and paid off all consumer debt, while incurring NO additional debt.

Felonious, you have given the reason yourself.  You sold a home in TN and moved.  The credit agencies understand that a person would have to be seriously judgement-impaired to do that and so a worse credit risk.  If you had sold the home in AL and moved here, your score would go up by 100 points.  If you sold the home in NY and moved here it would be 200 points.  And if you sold it in CA and moved here, you'd win the trifecta with oak leaf clusters.

Where's the big rasberry icon? :neener:
Good answer, my friend.  With things as they are right now, I'm not above moving back at some point.  Good folks down here, but still very segregated in attitude, and I miss the familiar.  We'll see how it goes.

[Felonious Monk/Fignozzle]

I don't need you to feel for me. I don't need you to do anything for me at all. I'm also not going to pretend things are lovely for everyone who works hard. They aren't.

FWIW, I could have been collecting money from the state for taking care of my kids because their original parents left them, but I never have because they're my responsibility. I deal with it. I'll continue to deal with it. We do fine. But what I won't do is pretend some people's world view isn't hooey, when I can see with my own eyes that it is.

Those rat catchers will never be oil barons, no matter how hard they work. The best they can hope for is that their grandchildren might be. I'm never going to be very well off. The best I can hope for is that I've given my kids enough that they will be comfortable.

I honor you for playing the cards life has dealt, with honest, hard work, and having raised at least one honorable son, a marine.

I also know you hold your own around here with a cantankerous group of codgers, misfits, and old salts.
I'm glad to be your bud.  No pity, nothing but respect.

[telewinz]

I wrote you once before Barb....YOU are MY hero.

I've noticed (due to my kids age group) that many bad/serious judgement mistakes start soon after graduation from high school.  Too many kids think going to college will write their ticket for life.  Wrong!  What we all need is a skill, something we can sell to an employer.  It's easy to tell how much money we will make and when we can expect to get a job, just check the classifieds or hit the employment office.  That can tell you within a few thousand dollars, how much your skill is worth in any particular region.  I blame the schools, (college campus life resembles Disney Land) they teach idealism then graduate you out on the streets.  There is no safety net in most single parent homes nor a "Mr/Ms. reality trip" (Dad's? and Barb) to counter the idealistic BS.  On average, a male in this country doesn't mature until the age 26 or later.  Thats an awful lot of hard knocks and a breeding ground for bitterness and disenchantment with the system.  The system isn't going to change any faster than a snail's pace.  We no longer teach coping skills in dealing with reality, we issue medication instead.  Sadly this solution is often times the most practical.  And some wonder why the US is declining.

[Guest]

No, Rabbi, I don't ask you for anything. I don't ask anyone for anything. But I've been there and know the realities of the situation. People do not suceed or fail based entirely on their own merits. It contributes, sure, but I will not be quiet and let you paint everyone with the same arrogant brush when I see that its not like that. You wrap yourself in cotton batting and believe  that anyone who doesn't make it is fat and lazy, if you want, and never have to make any effort to change the world, and I'll do what I think is right. Part of which is to tell people like you that you're wrong.

[Guest]

Heh, and thank you,  you two. I don't need even that, but its appreciated. The thing is, I'm fine and will continue to be. However, I'm fairly bright and at least a little stubborn and can take care of myself. There are a lot of  people out there that don't have that or any of the other breaks I've had, and literally never will make it on their own. They pay their way day to day, but, like I said, are just one illness or accident away from disaster.

I don't even know what the answer is. I just know that the prideful "I did it and so can they" thing isn't helpful to anyone.

[telewinz]

Girl, I just LOVE your attitude.  What a WINNER!  Whats the chances of you getting a baby sitter for Saturday night?

[telewinz]

I think heaven may be just a relief (death) from a person's self-made hell here on Earth

MAN! That is one depressing thought.

Ah, death is like a dreamless sleep...it's neutral, neither a positive nor negative experience.  For many poor, a neutral condition would be a blessing.  How many people are depressed while sleeping?  How many worry about their next meal or paying the bills while asleep?  Yet a growing amount rely on drugs/alcohol to make their woken hours tolerable.  What other creature deliberately tries to alter their perceptions of reality? Our blight is as old as man himself.

[grampster]

Barbara,
If one thinks about it, just about every one of us is a major illness or major accident away from disaster.  The only ones who are not are the mega rich, and they, I suspect, though not broke financially, would be in other ways.

I know a guy that wrote some software a few years ago and parleyed that talent into several million dollars.  He blew out his back shortly thereafter and spends much of his time imoble and in a drug induced stupor due to pain.

I have learned, rather recently actually, the value of the mundane.  Waking up in the morning and putting on the cloak of daily activities for the purpose of enjoying them, no matter what they are, can be a source of contentment.  You are not alone.
You have the greatest gift a person can have; a family that loves you, that you can love, and the respect and comradeship of friends.  

There are many reasons why we find ourselves in the position we do from time to time.  Most of the time the reasons used to explain that situation are too broad and sweepingly generic to apply to any of us, individually.  Trouble is, we are always trying to put ourselves into a slot.  Sometime, maybe, there are no slots and we must be content with being special.  I sense you are special, my friend.  Run with that.

As a Christian, I have a book of Wisdom that is available.  Whether you are a believer or not (I know you are intrigued with Islam),  there is a lot in my book that brings me solace. (and I suspect anyone looking for direction)  But one especially is germain to daily life.  If you can find a bible somewhere, look up the book of Jeremiah, chapter 17, verses 5-8.  That is what keeps me going every day; sometime with a smile, sometime with determination; but always with absolute confidence.

Cheers,
grampster

[Werewolf]

If nothing else this thread goes a long ways towards proving that indeed - natural selection is alive and thriving in the human species.

[Felonious Monk/Fignozzle]

grampster-- when I grow up, I want to be like you.

Fig

[Brad Johnson]

I refuse to grow up. All growing up does is make you feel old.

Brad

[Art Eatman]

I never grew up.  I just got bigger.

Art

[matis]

I didn't want to grow up, either.

So I didn't.


I simply went  from my first childhood directly into my second.



matis

[Art Eatman]

That's cool, though I hope you quit sucking your thumb.

, Art

[Felonious Monk/Fignozzle]

That's cool, though I hope you quit sucking your thumb.

, Art

It's either that, or walk around with a tit in my mouth all the time.  Fun for me, but you'd be amazed at how many people freak when a grown man does that.  

[brimic]

People do not suceed or fail based entirely on their own merits. It contributes, sure, but I will not be quiet and let you paint everyone with the same arrogant brush when I see that its not like that. You wrap yourself in cotton batting and believe  that anyone who doesn't make it is fat and lazy, if you want, and never have to make any effort to change the world, and I'll do what I think is right. Part of which is to tell people like you that you're wrong.

With all due respects you are wrong.  To make an analogy, every human being that has all of their limbs and is in decent health is capable of running a marathon.  Its whether or not they choose to work and train for the marathon that makes them able to do it. I'm relatively healthy though overweight and couldn't run a marathon right now if I tried, it would take months if not years of hard work to get there. My excuse is that I don't want or need to run a marathon, I have better things to do with my time like watching TV, playing with the kids, and spending time with the wife. I know for a fact that there are people out there who physically shouldn't be able to run a marathon- people with prosthetic limbs, people in their 80s, people with 1 lung, or people with birth defects and chronic illness,  but they do it anyway and do it better than I ever could because they put a lot of extra effort into doing it and more likely than not, they sacrifice other areas in their life to do it.  I can be happy and content that I can still jog all the way around the block without getting too winded, this is good enough for me, its the equivalent of just getting by versus putting the effort forth to create a million $$ worth of wealth.

[grampster]

SWMBO always says to me:  "When are you going to grow up, grampster?"

My reply is:  "There is only need for one adult in this family, and you my dear, got the acadamy award.    "

[Guest]

Whatever, Brimic. I'm done arguing about it. Seriously done. I know what I know, I see what I see, and I'll continue to do what I can because I know in a whole lot of cases, it's a case of "there but for the grace of God." Other's can live their lives as they see fit.

[The Rabbi]

Whatever, Brimic. I'm done arguing about it. Seriously done. I know what I know, I see what I see, and I'll continue to do what I can because I know in a whole lot of cases, it's a case of "there but for the grace of God." Other's can live their lives as they see fit.

Well that's good.

Let me belabor the point a little for my own amusement.

Let us take a hypothetical case of a woman who is in straightened circumstances, as it used to be called.  Let us say she is, maybe, one illness or accident away from serious trouble.  Now let us say her car, perhaps a Volvo station wagon, has 240k miles on it.
Would anyone say it was prudent for her to drive this superannuated car an extra hour and half on the highway, maybe 115 miles, to pick up some freebie for some cause or other?  Would anyone prudently knowing what is at stake use their car in that manner?
Now there might be all sorts of good reasons for her to go.  But no one could justify it purely on economic grounds.  There might well be other reasons to do so, but financially speaking it is the height of recklessness.  Sure, the flat tire, blown engine, accident or whatever, would not be, strictly speaking, her fault.  But her poor judgement put her in that situation to begin with. The unforeseen circumstances merely intersected with her bad judgement and created havoc.
This is what I see often, and what others here see as well.

[Felonious Monk/Fignozzle]

So let's agree to disagree on the finer points and move onward...

[grampster]

I guess Mother Theresa,  who's life could be described by some of the previous comments, would be considered a no-account.