Author Topic: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House  (Read 9135 times)

AZRedhawk44

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,984
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2013, 07:38:28 PM »
18k to make up for everything in the house? Personal possessions? Electronics? Probably appliances? If that was honestly all she wanted the bank manager is a bigger freaking idiot than the jackasses who couldn't be bothered to look at the number on the house.

I agree, something like this should be criminal. Kind of hard to put a corporation in jail, so the corp should be subject to massive punitive damages paid out to the victim people involved in approving and implementing the repossession action should be put in jail.

Fixed.

Accountability is the key.  Whether you're a cop, or a bank employee.  You ruin someone's life, you should be accountable for it.  Not some faceless entity with nearly bottomless pockets that won't feel the financial bite anyways because they'll just raise prices/taxes to make up for the loss.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2013, 07:39:37 PM »
I actually agree with AZRed on this. Someone issued the repo order, someone broke into the house etc. Hold those folks responsible.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

AZRedhawk44

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,984
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2013, 07:43:10 PM »
Further more, when I shoot the person breaking into my house... the person responsible for the death is the bank minion that put my address on the repo order (obviously as long as my house doesn't actually merit reposession).

Bank clerical error = homicide of repo minion.

And I walk.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2013, 09:06:22 PM »
I'm not against putting those directly responsible in jail, by all means throw the morons in jail if they are to damned stupid to read the mailbox.

But, that's also not going to replace all of her belongings.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Jamisjockey

  • Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 26,580
  • Your mom sends me care packages
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2013, 09:09:44 AM »
Further more, when I shoot the person breaking into my house... the person responsible for the death is the bank minion that put my address on the repo order (obviously as long as my house doesn't actually merit reposession).

Bank clerical error = homicide of repo minion.

And I walk.

I'm sure you got all excited at the prospect of shooting someone, but did you read the story?  She was out of town when the bank did it.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2013, 09:33:50 AM by jamisjockey »
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

T.O.M.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,414
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2013, 09:27:31 AM »
Dumb on all kinds of levels...
Bank was dumb for hiring an incompetent repo company...
Repo company was dumb for not verifying the address twice before kicking in the door...
Police were lazy (and dumb) to toss this off as being a civil matter, but that happens a lot...
Bank was dumb for not writing this lady a check for the $18,000.  They'll probably spend that much on legal fees before this is done...
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

a.k.a. "our resident Legal Smeagol."...thanks BryanP
"Anybody can give legal advice - but only licensed attorneys can sell it."...vaskidmark

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2013, 10:21:23 AM »
The damn sheriff around here says everything is a "civil matter" unless they can write a ticket for it or there is a body  ;/  =(

Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Jocassee

  • Buster Scruggs Respecter
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,591
  • "First time?"
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2013, 11:26:47 AM »
Quote
One of the clues the repomen used was that her grass was high so it must be the abandonded home.  They also blamed their gps for bringing them to the wrong house which was across the street from the actual repo.

Wanted to put a word in here because I used to do this kind of work for a national mortgage inspection company. If this guy is the same kind of contractor I was, he was doing dozens of stops a day. I used a software template that would ask me if the house was abandoned, then had checkboxes for different things. You get pretty good at recognizing abandoned houses after a while and tall grass is one of the major signs. An electric meter that's not moving is another (like if she was out of town). Sometimes we were told to verify verbally with someone in the neighborhood the resident's name and their residential status.  I won't say it's an easy mistake to make but it DOES happen, and I've made it too. HOWEVER.

I also had to submit photos of all the indicators of abandonment. The company I worked for had desk monkeys double checking all the photos. If I gave them a different house compared to previous photos, they would send me back to the site. Even if I sent them the right house, and I said it was abandoned for the first time, they would send me out to put eyeballs on it again, regardless. (Always fun when it's a three hour drive...each way...and you don't have any other stops to make money in the neighborhood).

So it is possible that even if these safeguards were in place they failed, and the contractor gave the wrong info to the bank. In that case, I believe the cost of all this is actually going to be handled by the contractor's insurance. because he gave the bank incorrect, but legally actionable, information.
I shall not die alone, alone, but kin to all the powers,
As merry as the ancient sun and fighting like the flowers.

MillCreek

  • Skippy The Wonder Dog
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,014
  • APS Risk Manager
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2013, 11:35:39 AM »
^^^ So if there was a mistake, and you entered the incorrect house in error, would you be OK with AZ44 shooting you as a minion of evil?  
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

41magsnub

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,579
  • Don't make me assume my ultimate form!
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2013, 11:36:13 AM »
I'm sure you got all excited at the prospect of shooting someone, but did you read the story?  She was out of town when the bank did it.


That has been the common thread in all of the instances of this I've read about.  The homeowner is either on vacation, or the wrongly foreclosed property is a vacation home or a vacant rental.  I've never read of an instance where the homeowner was home and was incorrectly foreclosed on.  I have to think that if the homeowner was there, there are multiple ways in which the conflict would have been resolved peacefully.  It would probably just be the homeowner saying, "my address is actually 1234 Elm street.  1237 Elm street is that blue house across the street."  No gunplay or anything else newsworthy.

Jocassee

  • Buster Scruggs Respecter
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,591
  • "First time?"
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2013, 11:53:35 AM »
^^^ So if there was a mistake, and you entered the incorrect house in error, would you be OK with AZ44 shooting you as a minion of evil?  

I only entered houses that had been previously confirmed vacant. Found pot, porn, and a few other interesting things but never an irate homeowner. Thank God.
I shall not die alone, alone, but kin to all the powers,
As merry as the ancient sun and fighting like the flowers.

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2013, 11:56:56 AM »
Wanted to put a word in here because I used to do this kind of work for a national mortgage inspection company. If this guy is the same kind of contractor I was, he was doing dozens of stops a day. I used a software template that would ask me if the house was abandoned, then had checkboxes for different things. You get pretty good at recognizing abandoned houses after a while and tall grass is one of the major signs. An electric meter that's not moving is another (like if she was out of town). Sometimes we were told to verify verbally with someone in the neighborhood the resident's name and their residential status.  I won't say it's an easy mistake to make but it DOES happen, and I've made it too. HOWEVER.

I also had to submit photos of all the indicators of abandonment. The company I worked for had desk monkeys double checking all the photos. If I gave them a different house compared to previous photos, they would send me back to the site. Even if I sent them the right house, and I said it was abandoned for the first time, they would send me out to put eyeballs on it again, regardless. (Always fun when it's a three hour drive...each way...and you don't have any other stops to make money in the neighborhood).

So it is possible that even if these safeguards were in place they failed, and the contractor gave the wrong info to the bank. In that case, I believe the cost of all this is actually going to be handled by the contractor's insurance. because he gave the bank incorrect, but legally actionable, information.

How was the pay for that? Seems like the sort of thing I could do after work or on weekends for extra cash.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

geronimotwo

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,796
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2013, 12:10:19 PM »
i'm still not seeing that the bank is liable.  they had the correct address on the form, the contractor was the one who entered the wrong house.
make the world idiot proof.....and you will have a world full of idiots. -g2

Jocassee

  • Buster Scruggs Respecter
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,591
  • "First time?"
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2013, 12:30:29 PM »
i'm still not seeing that the bank is liable.  they had the correct address on the form, the contractor was the one who entered the wrong house.

I agree

How was the pay for that? Seems like the sort of thing I could do after work or on weekends for extra cash.

Depending on the part of the country you're in and how many houses you have, which can trend up or down over months. I was making 11.50 per house and had 350 houses. My living expenses were very low at the time, so I survived, but if you include depreciation on the car I made no money over 5 months. It *is* possible to make lots of money though. A friend of mine grossed over 100k one year. He was making less money per house, but had a much larger route and peaked at about 1300 houses, which was about all he and his wife could handle.

As far as doing the work after hours, it has to be done in the daylight, sometimes within a day of receiving the order, and at least in my experience trying to do that job and something else, unless it was *very* flexible, would not be an option.
I shall not die alone, alone, but kin to all the powers,
As merry as the ancient sun and fighting like the flowers.

makattak

  • Dark Lord of the Cis
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,022
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2013, 12:34:55 PM »
i'm still not seeing that the bank is liable.  they had the correct address on the form, the contractor was the one who entered the wrong house.

The contractor is acting as agent for the bank. The bank is, therefore, liable for the actions of their agent. They don't get to duck out and say, "it was someone else who screwed up!", anymore than any other employer can say, "It was just my employee! Not me!".

Their dissatisfaction with their agent's conduct is to be taken up with the agent. The employer of the agent is to make the person his agent harmed, whole.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,835
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2013, 12:56:40 PM »
i'm still not seeing that the bank is liable.  they had the correct address on the form, the contractor was the one who entered the wrong house.
I didn't think it was real clear where the error was made and who all was involved in the error.  I would have thought that at some point a court officer would be involved as well.  The story I linked to didn't give a great many details of the initial incident. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,835
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2013, 12:59:47 PM »
Wanted to put a word in here because I used to do this kind of work for a national mortgage inspection company. If this guy is the same kind of contractor I was, he was doing dozens of stops a day. I used a software template that would ask me if the house was abandoned, then had checkboxes for different things. You get pretty good at recognizing abandoned houses after a while and tall grass is one of the major signs. An electric meter that's not moving is another (like if she was out of town). Sometimes we were told to verify verbally with someone in the neighborhood the resident's name and their residential status.  I won't say it's an easy mistake to make but it DOES happen, and I've made it too. HOWEVER.

I also had to submit photos of all the indicators of abandonment. The company I worked for had desk monkeys double checking all the photos. If I gave them a different house compared to previous photos, they would send me back to the site. Even if I sent them the right house, and I said it was abandoned for the first time, they would send me out to put eyeballs on it again, regardless. (Always fun when it's a three hour drive...each way...and you don't have any other stops to make money in the neighborhood).

So it is possible that even if these safeguards were in place they failed, and the contractor gave the wrong info to the bank. In that case, I believe the cost of all this is actually going to be handled by the contractor's insurance. because he gave the bank incorrect, but legally actionable, information.
I guess I had it in mind that you would use some sort of Key Map plus some sort of land ownership map showing the lots and verify all information in the mortgage agreement matched the house you were looking at.  My mortgages have had floor plans and maps of the lot the house was one plus house size and type; all this in addition to just the address.  I agree that mistakes can happen.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,835
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2013, 01:01:18 PM »
Another question:  Have you ever seen a Repossessed house that was all furnished with all the normal dishes and stuff in the cabinets?  It seems to me that once they entered the house, it would immediately be obvious that it wasn't abandoned.  

“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2013, 01:54:55 PM »
That has been the common thread in all of the instances of this I've read about.  The homeowner is either on vacation, or the wrongly foreclosed property is a vacation home or a vacant rental.  I've never read of an instance where the homeowner was home and was incorrectly foreclosed on.  I have to think that if the homeowner was there, there are multiple ways in which the conflict would have been resolved peacefully.  It would probably just be the homeowner saying, "my address is actually 1234 Elm street.  1237 Elm street is that blue house across the street."  No gunplay or anything else newsworthy.

So the bottom line is that unless you stay at home all the time with a loaded gun, you don't actually "own" your property  =|  =(
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Gewehr98

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 11,010
  • Yee-haa!
    • Neural Misfires (Blog)
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2013, 01:59:20 PM »
Quote
Further more, when I shoot the person breaking into my house... the person responsible for the death is the bank minion that put my address on the repo order (obviously as long as my house doesn't actually merit reposession).

Bank clerical error = homicide of repo minion.

And I walk.

Good gawd almighty!  I know you're itching to shoot somebody, but do you actually read the stuff you post here?  

You've gone on record saying you'll shoot a repo man.  Not whether you're in fear for life or limb, just that there's gonna be lead flying and the deceased will be the bank's fault.

We couldn't hand a juicier rationale to the Brady Center if we tried.   :mad:
« Last Edit: August 02, 2013, 02:08:38 PM by Gewehr98 »
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

http://neuralmisfires.blogspot.com

"Never squat with your spurs on!"

zxcvbob

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,264
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2013, 02:07:06 PM »
The contractor is acting as agent for the bank. The bank is, therefore, liable for the actions of their agent. They don't get to duck out and say, "it was someone else who screwed up!", anymore than any other employer can say, "It was just my employee! Not me!".

Their dissatisfaction with their agent's conduct is to be taken up with the agent. The employer of the agent is to make the person his agent harmed, whole.

+1  (I was just coming to this thread to say that, but mak beat me to it and said it better)
"It's good, though..."

zxcvbob

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,264
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #46 on: August 02, 2013, 02:12:07 PM »
Good gawd almighty!  I know you're itching to shoot somebody, but do you actually read the stuff you post here?  

You've gone on record saying you'll shoot a repo man.  Not whether you're in fear for life or limb, just that there's gonna be lead flying and the deceased will be the bank's fault.

We couldn't hand a juicier rationale to the Brady Center if we tried.   :mad:

That's not what he said -- he said he was shooting an unidentified someone-breaking-into-his-house.  In most states, that's presumed to be an Evildoerâ„¢.  It might be a home invasion robber, it might be a repo man, it might even be an overzealous deputy who didn't announce himself.

(btw, that last one will get you in a heap of trouble even if you're legally in the right.  One of those cases where the state doesn't really care what the law says, just ask Corie Maye)
"It's good, though..."

Jocassee

  • Buster Scruggs Respecter
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,591
  • "First time?"
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #47 on: August 02, 2013, 02:20:33 PM »
Another question:  Have you ever seen a Repossessed house that was all furnished with all the normal dishes and stuff in the cabinets?  It seems to me that once they entered the house, it would immediately be obvious that it wasn't abandoned.  



A couple houses I visited had some "stuff" around, but nothing that would be consider fully furnished. However I'm sure it happens. A lot of times when people get evicted they just go and they can't take everything with em. Even in houses where there was stuff left, though, everything was in disarray, like a half-finished packing job.

Now that I've said all this, I'm not sure *exactly* where responsibility lies, I don't know enough about the other layers in the process  =| Just the low-level stuff I did.

I wonder how they gained access to the house for the inspectors and movers? Broke in and changed the locks?
I shall not die alone, alone, but kin to all the powers,
As merry as the ancient sun and fighting like the flowers.

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #48 on: August 02, 2013, 02:24:41 PM »
...
I wonder how they gained access to the house for the inspectors and movers? Broke in and changed the locks?

When we were having trouble getting the former owner to move out after we had closed on the house, our attorney strongly recommended against me doing that while she was gone.  I guess if you're a bank, then you can do any damn thing you want to ...  :mad:
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Re: An Ohio Bank Accidentally Foreclosed the Wrong House
« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2013, 02:53:55 PM »
Quote
I used a software template that would ask me if the house was abandoned, then had checkboxes for different things.
Was one of those check boxes the address on the house?
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.