We'll show you!

[Perd Hapley]

Have you ever met a transexual? You seem to be all opinion and no data. I honestly doubt that if I showed you a picture of a lady and a transexual lady side by side, that you could tell the difference. You seem to live a very sheltered life where you just echo opinions with no real experience.

Forgive me, in a previous response, for failing to acknowledge your unimpeachable data set of "you seem to be," and for failing to answer your question about my personal experience with the trans-genderated. The timing of your question is especially interesting, given that I recently had two exchanges with an ambiguous individual, in my professional life. He (I use the generic he, being unsure of the individual's actual sex) was either a man trying to look like a woman, or a very unappealing woman.

More to the point is the emasculated (that is, surgically altered) man that has visited my church on a number of occasions over the past few months. While he gives the appearance of a somewhat-womanish individual, he has shared his, uh, situation with certain church members. That being the case, certain women in the church are aware. It's all well and good for you to say, or echo, that he looks like a she, so it's no problem. Your opinion will be of no importance or comfort to my wife, should this man enter her restroom at the church. But thanks for letting us know how you feel.

[makattak]

Your opinion will be of no importance or comfort to my wife, should this man enter her restroom at the church. But thanks for letting us know how you feel.

Well, that's her fault. She has no right to control where and with whom she will associate!

[White Horseradish]

So again, how do you keep the guy-guys out of the women's restroom?

Well, first you have to figure out how you check that sort of thing. There are numerous stories of lesbians being thrown out of bathrooms because they look too mannish.

What would be the problem with kicking people out of bathrooms based on their behavior rather than appearance? It seems to me that rather than requiring people to carry papers proving gender, or submitting to a genital inspection, it's a lot simpler to figure out whether they are doing something wrong. Aren't assault and peeping already illegal, regardless of gender?

Seriously, this whole thing is a complete non-issue, and I am just baffled why this became a conservative cause just now. As far as I know, there has been exactly one documented case of some guy claiming to be trans and causing a problem, three years ago. Claiming to be trans didn't help him any, as he was doing something wrong.

[dogmush]

Seriously, this whole thing is a complete non-issue, and I am just baffled why this became a conservative cause just now. As far as I know, there has been exactly one documented case of some guy claiming to be trans and causing a problem, three years ago. Claiming to be trans didn't help him any, as he was doing something wrong.

I think because it became a SJW cause recently.  I seem to recall the liberal side of my Facebook friends cranking up about uncomfortable transsexuals peeing. (Which kinda sounds like a sequel to Rocky Horror)  They bullied places to change, and conservatives started passing laws.

More to the point is the emasculated (that is, surgically altered) man that has visited my church on a number of occasions over the past few months. While he gives the appearance of a somewhat-womanish individual, he has shared his, uh, situation with certain church members. That being the case, certain women in the church are aware. It's all well and good for you to say, or echo, that he looks like a she, so it's no problem. Your opinion will be of no importance or comfort to my wife, should this man enter her restroom at the church.

I'm genuinely curious, why would your wife, or any other women, be more uncomfortable in the bathroom with an emasculated male than any other room?  I can see the logic of not wanting the penis endowed folks in the bathroom, and I could understand folks at your church not being particularly impressed and/or comfortable around a post-op trans sexual.  But the bathroom specific issues would seem to have been alleviated.  If anything, I would have guessed the individual is sexually attracted to men and likely that would be the restroom to keep them out of.

[roo_ster]

...I am just baffled why this became a conservative cause just now.

I think because it became a SJW cause recently. 

Normal, mentally healthy folk did not raise this issue.  It has become an issue because the vile leftists and their allies have made it an issue. Just one more way to rub decent folks' noses in the feces of contemporary morality.

The utter absurdity of altering laws and institutions to cater to the mentally ill 0.10% of folk who insist everyone dance to their tune would be funny, were it not so destructive and indicative of the utter corruption of the culture.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Well, first you have to figure out how you check that sort of thing. There are numerous stories of lesbians being thrown out of bathrooms because they look too mannish.

What would be the problem with kicking people out of bathrooms based on their behavior rather than appearance? It seems to me that rather than requiring people to carry papers proving gender, or submitting to a genital inspection, it's a lot simpler to figure out whether they are doing something wrong. Aren't assault and peeping already illegal, regardless of gender?

Seriously, this whole thing is a complete non-issue, and I am just baffled why this became a conservative cause just now. As far as I know, there has been exactly one documented case of some guy claiming to be trans and causing a problem, three years ago. Claiming to be trans didn't help him any, as he was doing something wrong.

They don't have newspaper or other news services in your area? Or you just don't use them? I live in the sticks and we've had several locally and recently?
What is the metric,  approved by you of course,  for the number of incidents that is allowable/acceptable?

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[cassandra and sara's daddy]

From someone with skin in the game

http://msblairewhite.com/breaking-trans-bathroom-debacle/

[brimic]

From someone with skin in the game

http://msblairewhite.com/breaking-trans-bathroom-debacle/

Nails it!

[zxcvbob]

BTW: I've been at events (City Stages Music Festival, Birmingham, AL) where there weren't enough women's restrooms and they started coming in the men's room to pee. The guys were at the urinals and the ladies were queued up for the stalls. There were a few drunk idiots that tried to be cute and show their junk but a line of women pointing and laughing tends to take care of that pretty well IIRC.

The whole controversy seems to be very contrived on both sides.  A woman or girl shouldn't have to look at a penis unless she actually wants to, but if she does catch a glance is she really gonna be traumatized by it?  (not unless she wants to be traumatized because "victim" has become a position of power)  I don't think they are that weak or feeble-minded.

All the women's toilets that I've ever seen had stalls, and if a man did walk in, he wouldn't see anything and nobody would see his.  Even men's rooms, except at a few old sports stadiums where there was a long trough to pee in, there were stalls and dividers to maintain at least a little privacy.  You're not going to see anything unless you're looking for it.

Unisex bathrooms like in the old Ally McBeal show would not be all *that* awkward unless they were designed specifically to be so. (discaimer: I never watched that show)

I don't think it's about restrooms anyway, so much as about showers and locker rooms.  And leftists trying to tear-down any and all conservative notions of decency just for the sake of tearing things down and then mocking the conservatives for being offended.  

[Perd Hapley]

I'm genuinely curious, why would your wife, or any other women, be more uncomfortable in the bathroom with an emasculated male than any other room? 

Dignify that with a response I will not.

If anything, I would have guessed the individual is sexually attracted to men and likely that would be the restroom to keep them out of.

Yeah, protect the men. Let the women fend for themselves. Makes sense.

[Perd Hapley]

I don't think it's about restrooms anyway, so much as about showers and locker rooms.  And leftists trying to tear-down any and all conservative notions of decency just for the sake of tearing things down and then mocking the conservatives for being offended. 

Well, yeah.

The whole controversy seems to be very contrived on both sides.  A woman or girl shouldn't have to look at a penis unless she actually wants to, but if she does catch a glance is she really gonna be traumatized by it?  (not unless she wants to be traumatized because "victim" has become a position of power)  I don't think they are that weak or feeble-minded.

All the women's toilets that I've ever seen had stalls, and if a man did walk in, he wouldn't see anything and nobody would see his.  Even men's rooms, except at a few old sports stadiums where there was a long trough to pee in, there were stalls and dividers to maintain at least a little privacy.  You're not going to see anything unless you're looking for it.

Unisex bathrooms like in the old Ally McBeal show would not be all *that* awkward unless they were designed specifically to be so. (discaimer: I never watched that show)

Be that as it may, we've heretofore built gendered bathrooms in most businesses/churches/institutions. People seem to prefer it, for whatever reason.

[dogmush]

Dignify that with a response I will not.

Perhaps I failed to communicate, or some of our earlier disagreements leaked over.  Or I just don't understand, but it was a genuine question.  I would have thought that the full on removal of the male organs would have alleviated any bathroom specific issues.  I can see being generally uncomfortable and/or disapproving, but why is the bathroom the line in the case of post op.  How would one even tell had the info not been made public.  I feel a little happy to say that I have never (knowingly) seen a man made vagina.  Are they discernible?  (That's probably a question for Viking)

Yeah, protect the men. Let the women fend for themselves. Makes sense.

Protect them from what? Seriously? What?  Again, I can see the points made about men "living as women" being pervs and using the women's restroom for cheap thrills, but actual went through the surgery MTF transgenders are(were?) overwhelmingly homosexual, and as far as I can determine not interested in women as anything. 

I'm not trying to pick a fight. Whether we agree or not, I can generally usually follow your logic train.  This particular facet has me lost.

[White Horseradish]

They don't have newspaper or other news services in your area? Or you just don't use them?

They do. I just haven't ever seen any such incidents reported here.

I live in the sticks and we've had several locally and recently

Maybe it's just where you live. Or, they aren't what we are talking about.

What is the metric,  approved by you of course,  for the number of incidents that is allowable/acceptable?

Depends on what you consider "an incident"

For me to see this as a problem, I would want to see more than one instance of someone doing something nefarious (that means things other than just being there and doing normal things done in such places) and getting away with it based on claiming to be trans. Some guy going peeping and getting in trouble doesn't qualify.

From someone with skin in the game

http://msblairewhite.com/breaking-trans-bathroom-debacle/

"if you pass poorly but have your paperwork in order, nobody can tell you *expletive deleted*it anyway"

Because having your paperwork in order so that you can take a piss is totally the way it should be.

Are you going to become like Russia, and actually institute bathroom attendants, but go a step further and give them the authority to ask "papers, please"?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

The whole controversy seems to be very contrived on both sides.  A woman or girl shouldn't have to look at a penis unless she actually wants to, but if she does catch a glance is she really gonna be traumatized by it?  (not unless she wants to be traumatized because "victim" has become a position of power)  I don't think they are that weak or feeble-minded.

All the women's toilets that I've ever seen had stalls, and if a man did walk in, he wouldn't see anything and nobody would see his.  Even men's rooms, except at a few old sports stadiums where there was a long trough to pee in, there were stalls and dividers to maintain at least a little privacy.  You're not going to see anything unless you're looking for it.

Unisex bathrooms like in the old Ally McBeal show would not be all *that* awkward unless they were designed specifically to be so. (discaimer: I never watched that show)

I don't think it's about restrooms anyway, so much as about showers and locker rooms.  And leftists trying to tear-down any and all conservative notions of decency just for the sake of tearing things down and then mocking the conservatives for being offended.  

Contrived? Maybe not so much. We have a shim who caused a stir at the local college using the ladies locker room. He coincidentally chooses to swim same time as the local high schools girls swim team. But he's entitled to use whatever he identifies with

[zxcvbob]

This is a question mostly for BSL and Mrs. Smith if she's still around; do any women's restrooms have urinals? 

I'm thinking mostly in college dorms and commons.  I've seen some urinals that looked like they could be used effectively by a female if she practiced just a little.  (not sure why they jutted out so far in the front unless a futile attempt to keep keep men with a bad aim from pissing on the floor.)

[roo_ster]

This is a question mostly for BSL and Mrs. Smith if she's still around; do any women's restrooms have urinals? 

I'm thinking mostly in college dorms and commons.  I've seen some urinals that looked like they could be used effectively by a female if she practiced just a little.  (not sure why they jutted out so far in the front unless a futile attempt to keep keep men with a bad aim from pissing on the floor.)

Seen purpose built female urinals:
1. Quite distinctive.
2. I would not wish even women I despise to have to use some of the designs.
3. Toilets manage pretty well and take up little more space.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

More of consequences
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/sexual-predator-jailed-after-claiming-to-be-transgender-in-order-to-assault


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[Perd Hapley]

I'm not trying to pick a fight. Whether we agree or not, I can generally usually follow your logic train.  This particular facet has me lost.

I was stating a fact: the women at my church (or at least some of them) do not want a man (with or without man-parts) in their restroom (since this is the internet, I'll add the obvious qualifier that maintenance and cleaning purposes are an exception).  We've had to have that conversation.

And while we're on the subject:
http://www.kmov.com/story/29926467/hillsboro-high-school-students-stage-walkout-in-dispute-over-transgender-student

[roo_ster]

More of consequences
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/sexual-predator-jailed-after-claiming-to-be-transgender-in-order-to-assault


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A biological man claiming to be ‘transgender’ so as to gain access to and prey on women at two Toronto shelters was jailed “indefinitely” last week after being declared by a judge a “dangerous offender.”

Pro-family leaders are pointing out that this is exactly the type of incident they warned of as the Ontario government passed its “gender identity” bill, dubbed the “bathroom bill,” in 2012.

Christopher Hambrook, 37, leaned on the ever expanding legal “rights” offered to people who “identify” with the sex opposite their biology. Under the name “Jessica,” he was able to get into the women’s shelters, where he sexually assaulted several women in 2012, the Toronto Sun reports...

Court heard how one woman awoke to find Hambrook assaulting her on her bed...

Court also heard evidence of Hambrook terrorizing a deaf woman living in the shelter...

The same deaf women reported that Hambrook would peer at her through a gap between the door and its frame while she showered...

Hambrook was a former stripper and escort from Quebec before moving to Toronto in 2009 and posing as a woman. While in Montreal he served four years in jail for a 2002 sexual assault of a five-year-old girl who was a family friend and for raping a mentally challenged 27-year-old woman while on bail for the first crime, reports the Toronto Sun.

Wow, one might get the impression that these folk are not only not right in the head, but will take great & unreasonable risks to satisfy their illicit sexual desires.

[roo_ster]

And while we're on the subject:
http://www.kmov.com/story/29926467/hillsboro-high-school-students-stage-walkout-in-dispute-over-transgender-student

My Narcissus-O-Meter broke while watching the interview.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

We have a trans kid in my youngest's school. He's an ok kid. I think he's legitimately unsure of his gender. Parents are not flakes has siblings who are not confused. For several years he just used the staff restroom. No problems apparent. Then there was a lawsuit in New Mexico and the school system shysters intervened to bring " compliance". That which was not broken was fixed and as is all too typical NOT at the request of the kid or family.
Been a cluster jerk ever since


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[Boomhauer]

I am just baffled why this became a conservative cause just now.

It's not a "conservative cause". It's *expletive deleted*ing retarded Social Justice Warriors (aka mainly dumbfuck liberal college students inspired by their moronic professors to take to Facebook and Twitter to "advance the cause") who are pushing the *expletive deleted*it...and the sane side of society is trying to push back on it.

[Hawkmoon]

There are genetic men out there that live, dress and identify as women, as mentioned above, you wouldn't know the difference unless they told you.
I seriously have no problem with them using the bathroom with my daughter, though I don't hang out in women's bathrooms myself, I don't think people prance around with their pants down in them.  
OTOH, there are perverts that will take advantage of the situation- it would not very difficult at all to figure out who they are and call police/security to have them removed. This is where the LGBTBBQ response falls flat- they want to protect everyone at the expense of everyone else.

The problem isn't transgendered people using the bathroom they identify with, its the all-or-none attitude on both ends of the spectrum.

I guess I'm a troglodyte, then. As far as I'm concerned, a "genetic man" who still has all his man equipment intact and functional but who dresses like a girl is not a "transgender," he's a transvestite.

[Sideways_8]

I'm done opposing *expletive deleted*it like this (promotion of sexual confusion as normal). There is no point in pointing out the obvious anymore as folks prefer to live in their fantasy world.

A majority of women, a majority of minorities and a sizeable percentage of white males vote for Democrats. This lunacy stems directly from that voting pattern. If that is the world they want then so be it.

My goal is to isolate myself from the madness as much as possible and live out my days in relative peace.

And this is why conservatives lose elections. Because they worry more about being socially conservative than fiscally conservative. Please, call me when a candidate is fiscally conservative and not socially. Otherwise, the "conservative" candidates will lose because they try to legislate morality. I want a small government that stays out of my life fiscally and morally.

Have you ever met a mentally ill person?   If I showed you a picture of a mentally ill person and a perfectly sane one side by side, I honestly doubt you could tell the difference.  You seem to be all opinion and no data.  See how that works?

Can't say I have. I'm wondering why I should worry about it? Are they going to attack me? Will a transexual or mentally ill person attack me in the restroom? Or should I go about my business and they go about theres? I doubt it. You seem to be all opinion and no data. See how that works?

[White Horseradish]

http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/north-carolina-woman-kicked-out-of-ladies-bathroom-by-police-after-being-mistaken-for-transgender/


I guess this answers my questions about enforcement.

As if drug raids and gun raids weren't enough, now we're going to have, what, dick raids? Or do we just re-purpose "panty raid" for this?

At least they didn't blow up the toilet. This time.