United Airlines initiates self-immolation

[Fly320s]

If you want to be treated with common decency, there's a $45 fee (each way) for that.

Credit card only.  Cash not accepted.

[RevDisk]

https://t.co/N1TbohuRc3

While again, he's probably right...  But it won't help their PR after the news company picks out choice quotes.

[Fly320s]

It's rather funny, because it appears the airline made the incentives for the crew revolve ONLY around those few hundred dollars.

I'm sure they'd have been docked for spending more than $800 on the bumping, so OF COURSE, from their view, it's now time for force. Because they aren't paid to think about the future of the airline, but to get that plane (and the spare crew, it seems) to Louisville, as cheaply and efficiently as possible.  Individuals respond to incentives and costs and the employees acted as though there were keenly aware of what the extra few hundred dollars would cost them. I'm willing to bet they'd have been reprimanded for offering too much.

The people in charge of them are the ones who ought to be thinking about the airline as a whole and should have aligned the crews incentives with that. They failed.

Fly320s, am I guessing right here?

Pretty much.  Just to clarify: the SOPs for bumping/compensating pax are already in place.  I don't know much about the details, but I doubt that the front-line gate agents are allowed to determine the amount of offered compensation.  The agents follow the script as written by the corporate office.  And this works 99% of the time.  We've all seen/heard the stories of passengers throwing fits because they were bumped from flights.  Those are rare events.  Having to physically remove a passenger is even more rare.  This news story is a news story only because there is video of a man with a bloody lip.  If it bleeds, it leads.

As to the crew movement issue:  The deadheading crew (I assume they were deadheading and not flying standby on their own time) needed to be in Louisville (or whatever the destination was.  I've seen three cities mentioned.) to operate a flight the next day.  Bumping 1-4 passengers today is normally better/easier/cheaper than cancelling a flight tomorrow for 50 people.

[Fly320s]

https://t.co/N1TbohuRc3

While again, he's probably right...  But it won't help their PR after the news company picks out choice quotes.

Oh, yeah, this will get worse.  Mr. CEO needs to run his emails through his PR group before hitting 'send.'

[Triphammer]

They needed four seats, one guy got beat up then allowed back on the plane. Where did the crew that "needed" to be some where go.  Wherever they went, seems that should have been the answer from the beginning.

[Fly320s]

They needed four seats, one guy got beat up then allowed back on the plane. Where did the crew that "needed" to be some where go.  Wherever they went, seems that should have been the answer from the beginning.

The only info we get is from the news.  WE don't know what happened to anyone else, because all the news cares about is the bloody lip.  Maybe three other people got off quietly, with no fuss, and the crew was on board.  Maybe MR. Bloody Lip was later removed from the plane and missed the flight.  I did read one quick account somewhere that said he was taken to a hospital.  I also read the entire plane was emptied to clean up the blood.

We won't know the majority of the story for a few days.  We have to wait for the drama to die down first.

[RoadKingLarry]

No one has asked the most important question.

Is the good Doctor a liberal, conservative or a libertarian.
If he's just a other whiney butt liberal why do we care?

[Brad Johnson]

Oh, yeah, this will get worse.  Mr. CEO needs to run his emails through his PR group before hitting 'send.'

It's worse.

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2017/04/11/united-ceo-defends-actions-staff-in-viral-video-as-lawmakers-call-for-investigation.html

When it doubt, double-down on Teh Stoopid by blaming the person beaten and dragged forcefully off a plane because of your crew's piss poor handling of the issue. I see a special Board Of Directors meeting in his future.

Brad

[Ben]

Point of order: the flight was operated by a United Express code-share partner, not actually United Airlines.  In the videos, the plane appears to be a regional jet, such as a CRJ or Embraer, seating about 50 people, not hundreds.

Interesting info. To a regional carrier, $800 could be equivalent to $8000 for United itself. How does it work if United wants to deadhead on one of their regional carriers? I don't know how intertwined United is with its partners regarding finance, etc.

Also, we seem to be heavily focusing on United. Not that they don't share responsibility for a bad business move, but it was a government employee who dragged the guy off the plane.

[Fly320s]

How does it work if United wants to deadhead on one of their regional carriers? I don't know how intertwined United is with its partners regarding finance, etc

The flight booking is seamless.  For all intensive porpoises, it is the same airline.

Finances are separate, though. Two different companies.  UAL runs the organizational side of things, the express carrier runs their flight side of things and gets paid to fly the United colors.

[RevDisk]

Interesting info. To a regional carrier, $800 could be equivalent to $8000 for United itself. How does it work if United wants to deadhead on one of their regional carriers? I don't know how intertwined United is with its partners regarding finance, etc.

Also, we seem to be heavily focusing on United. Not that they don't share responsibility for a bad business move, but it was a government employee who dragged the guy off the plane.

Apparently, quite a few people think it was United employees who beat the man senseless. Chicago airport PD is probably very thankful for that. United's (or their affiliated subregional partner) role is solely being the folks who dialed 911.

Seriously, their CEO is a complete moron. If their CEO, marketing and PR were on point, they would have pulled an Obama and threw the police under the bus. That they deplore the violence inherent in the system and they feel terrible that the police would do something like that. Maybe Chicago police needs to re-evaluate their sensitivity training, etc. Admitting no guilt to drive down their settlement costs while trying to look good in front of the camera. Absolute incompetence.

[Ben]

Regardless of anything else, I laughed out loud at this response:

"We're altering our seating arrangements, pray we don't alter them any further"

 

[makattak]

Apparently, quite a few people think it was United employees who beat the man senseless. Chicago airport PD is probably very thankful for that. United's (or their affiliated subregional partner) role is solely being the folks who dialed 911.

Seriously, their CEO is a complete moron. If their CEO, marketing and PR were on point, they would have pulled an Obama and threw the police under the bus. That they deplore the violence inherent in the system and they feel terrible that the police would do something like that. Maybe Chicago police needs to re-evaluate their sensitivity training, etc. Admitting no guilt to drive down their settlement costs while trying to look good in front of the camera. Absolute incompetence.

Yep. He keeps saying "WE WERE COMPLETELY IN THE RIGHT!!!" which, although it may be true, is monumentally bad publicity.

You PROBABLY don't want to send the message to your customers that if you don't cooperate in our screwing you over, we'll have you beaten.

Yes, you might have the right to screw people over, but you REALLY want to downplay that part. The beating just highlights the fact you were screwing the passenger over and willing to use force to do so.

This isn't a "Push through the negative until it becomes a positive" situation. The "rights" you are exercising are already disliked by the public and saying "It was MY RIGHT!" works about as well as this:

[Lord Bottoms had claimed the right of Prima Nocte and raped Morrison's bride on the first night of their marriage]
Morrison: Do you remember me?
Lord Bottoms: [scared] I never did her any harm. It was my right!
Morrison: Your right? Well, I'm here to claim the right of a husband!
[kills Lord Bottoms]

[Jim147]

Poor doc thought he had a redeye flight didn't know it was the black eye.

[Fly320s]

Poor doc thought he had a redeye flight didn't know it was the black eye.

Only because he gave the cops some lip.   

[MechAg94]

The story I thought I heard (I think it was from twitter or the Facebook comments so you know it is true) is that 3 people took the $800 and one person offered to leave for $1600, but they were not taken up on it.  The guy was picked by lottery or something instead of just last one on. 

My biggest issue is that United's business model assumes they will kick a certain number of people off flights because they were oversold or because they need to move employees around.  I realize the numbers are low compared to total passenger numbers, but it is still a pretty cold way to do business.  You would think they would find a way to do it better or handle it before letting people on the plane. 

I am still curious if the doctor's luggage was taken off the plane or it continued on the flight. 

[Scout26]

"If they just raised the offer, then someone would have taken it."


BULLSHIT.   They bumped it up several times and no one bit.  They hit the top end of the offer scale and at that point, the computer picked four seats.  Congrats, you lose.  

Also it is my understanding that Dr. Fat Lip got off and then when he ran back on and got in the seat before they got the crew there and on-board.

And this won't cost United a dime.  What alternative do people have ??  Take the bus??  Most flights are already full or close to full.   There's not a lot of alternatives depending on where you want to fly to.   People will bitch, whine and moan, but in the end they'll shut-up and fly.

[MechAg94]

The brutality of the police involved is probably nothing they haven't done plenty before.  They just normally do it to "criminals" and not in view of dozens of normal people.  It sucks, but I am surprised people are so shocked by it.  The same thing could happen on the side of the road and does.

I do admit that the doctor could argue and complain, but once the cops show up, you pretty much need to realize compliance is no longer optional and you are going to have a bad day if you continue to resist.  It is something to remember when flying on an airline I guess.  Expect good service, but understand you could be chose as the one to be bumped and there is no point in arguing beyond getting a few allowed incentives.

[MechAg94]

"If they just raised the offer, then someone would have taken it."


BULLSHIT.   They bumped it up several times and no one bit.  They hit the top end of the offer scale and at that point, the computer picked four seats.  Congrats, you lose.  

Also it is my understanding that Dr. Fat Lip got off and then when he ran back on and got in the seat before they got the crew there and on-board.

And this won't cost United a dime.  What alternative do people have ??  Take the bus??  Most flights are already full or close to full.   There's not a lot of alternatives depending on where you want to fly to.   People will bitch, whine and moan, but in the end they'll shut-up and fly.

IMO, United's best hope is to get this dismissed or settled.  If it goes to a jury, I doubt they will get any sympathy regardless of what the rules/laws are.

And "close to full" wouldn't have been an issue.  It was full. 

The alternatives are all at United's feet.  They could choose to handle flight booking and employee movement differently.  They could choose to offer more incentives or give the local people more flexibility if that was part of it.  What I would be curious to know is what alternatives there were that day/night to get those employees to the destination.  Was that flight the ONLY choice?

What is on the doctor is resisting police.  That gets you nowhere and often results in what he got. 

[Fly320s]

MechAg,

The checked luggage can stay on board.  I assume it did get removed, though, because RJs don't have much baggage to sort through.

[Scout26]

The brutality of the police involved is probably nothing they haven't done plenty before.  They just normally do it to "criminals" and not in view of dozens of normal people.  It sucks, but I am surprised people are so shocked by it.  The same thing could happen on the side of the road and does.

I do admit that the doctor could argue and complain, but once the cops show up, you pretty much need to realize compliance is no longer optional and you are going to have a bad day if you continue to resist.  It is something to remember when flying on an airline I guess.  Expect good service, but understand you could be chose as the one to be bumped and there is no point in arguing beyond getting a few allowed incentives.

I believe that the term is "You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride."  When Officer Friendly says to get off the plane.  It's time to get off the plane.  

[TechMan]

And here is an article about the doctor: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4401980/Dr-dragged-United-swapped-drugs-secret-gay-sex.html

[Ben]

Also it is my understanding that Dr. Fat Lip got off and then when he ran back on and got in the seat before they got the crew there and on-board.

I've just started hearing about this. Again, not excusing anyone, but the tarring and feathering is based on a couple of short video snippets -- both from around the same timeframe - making the rounds. I wonder, if such existed, how a "start to finish" recording would change things?

As was pointed out, once the cops are called, the best thing to do is follow directions and then call the lawyer. Going limp and being dragged out is kind of an SJW move.

[MechAg94]

Sounds like the lessons so far are:

1.  "Police" are not your friends when you resist.  
2.  "Victims" are sometimes not sympathetic figures and often deserve just as much blame as the bad guy.
3.  Air travel can suck sometimes.  Take what you can get and go with the flow.  

[MechAg94]

MechAg,

The checked luggage can stay on board.  I assume it did get removed, though, because RJs don't have much baggage to sort through.

I guess I was thinking if you had a family of 4 on the flight, $800 each is a pretty good incentive.  However, you might need your luggage if you get stuck overnight.