nanny state comes to USMC?!!!

[Jamisjockey]

 

recognize that some of you don't understand the culture of the Marine Corps.  What you really don't understand is how completely we don't care if you approve of it or not. 

Phantomwarrior...you're in the Army.  Stay there.  You would not find happiness in the Marine Corps.

Oooorrraaahhhh!

[Balog]

The Marine Corps isn't a religion; too bad so many people treat it that way. I notice they mostly tend to be guys who's service didn't involve a lot of getting blown up and watching their friends get killed. YMMV, after all, I'm just a dumb grunt.

[Moondoggie]

The Marine Corps most definately is not a religion.  It is, however, a culture of distinct customs and traditions.

I've known plenty of Marine vets who were missing body parts that still considered themselves a part of that culture, and deeply felt it's influence throughout their lives.

I'm sorry you don't feel that way, Balog.  Maybe someday things will change.

Semper Fi!

[Perd Hapley]

I recognize that some of you don't understand the culture of the Marine Corps.

Thankfully, my IQ is too high to understand it.  And I like girls. 


But anyway, good on the Devil-Dogs for having at least some standards. 

[wmenorr67]

It is interesting to see how the Army is lowering standards to gain recruits and the Marines are raising them.

I have the upmost respect for all my brothers and sisters in whatever branch of the service they choose.

But it is like sibling rivalry.  We can pick on each other but don't let an outsider step in or they are going to get it
from both ends. 

[Balog]

I'm sorry you don't feel that way, Balog.  Maybe someday things will change.

Semper Fi!

With all due respect, I truly hope not. My experience may have been an anomaly, but a lot of the "culture" involved great devotion to rules that often made it more difficult to accomplish the mission. Combine that with people trying to score brownie points with their superiors even if a few lance criminals get killed and I can't help but feel I'm better off without it.

[Jamisjockey]

The Marine Corps most definately is not a religion.  It is, however, a culture of distinct customs and traditions.

I've known plenty of Marine vets who were missing body parts that still considered themselves a part of that culture, and deeply felt it's influence throughout their lives.

I'm sorry you don't feel that way, Balog.  Maybe someday things will change.

Semper Fi!

My experiences mimic Moondoggies.
I grew up in the Corps.  My father retired just after Gulf War I.  21 years enlisted.  I served 5 enlisted.  My FIL is retired USMC, 23 years enlisted.
No, its not a religion.  It is a series of unique experiences that change the lives of those who serve, and set them apart from everyone else. 
I've known all kinds of vets.  Grunts.  Airwing.  Pilots.  Supply clerks.  Combat vets.  Wounded vets.  Vets of multiple conflicts.  A good family friend growing up was wounded in Korea and Vietnam.  He was a retired USMC Light bird.
Not a one of them would have traded thier experiences or life for a nice, cushy window office on Wall Street. 

[RocketMan]

JamisJockey said:
Not a one of them would have traded thier experiences or life for a nice, cushy window office on Wall Street.

Amen to that.  Five years total enlisted here.  Despite the usual bitching and moaning at the time, I would not trade the experience for anything.  Like most, I suspect, I would do it again if I had to live life over again.  It was a good choice.

[Moondoggie]

Watch the video...

Listen to the words...

"Traditions of an elite Corps handed down and preserved from generation to generation."  Changing our standards to mimic popular culture is not part of the Marine Corps Tradition.  That is one of the primary things that define the Marine Corps..."We didn't promise you a rose garden".

I'm not slamming Balog, or the younger folks who served an enlistment or two, but you really have to experience the culture for a decade or three to fully understand and appreciate why we are so strict about preserving the traditions and heritage.  Without them we might as well be the Army, Navy, or Air Force...but we're not.  We have elements of all three within our Service, but we're still unique...and uniquely successful.  You can argue against that point 'til the cows come home, but you can't argue against it successfully.

Marine Corps = "Nanny State"...that's a hoot!

PS:  WATCH THE VIDEO!!!
Semper Fi!

[wmenorr67]

Without them we might as well be the Army, Navy, or Air Force...but we're not.  We have elements of all three within our Service, but we're still unique...

Well they are known as

Uncle
Sam's
Misguided
Children

for a reason.

[Gewehr98]

WTF?

Without them we might as well be the Army, Navy, or Air Force...but we're not.

Yeah, because the above services never experience combat, esprit de corps, cameraderie, or fall under the UCMJ rules, either.

We may not be as disposable as the Marines, but it doesn't mean we don't fight when called.

Wanna see my combat medals? 

[Jamisjockey]

WTF?

Without them we might as well be the Army, Navy, or Air Force...but we're not.

Yeah, because the above services never experience combat, esprit de corps, cameraderie, or fall under the UCMJ rules, either.

We may not be as disposable as the Marines, but it doesn't mean we don't fight when called.

Wanna see my combat medals? 

Not to start a this service is better than yours....
Disposable is a laughable term.  The Marines are often placed into situations that might be considered sticky for one reason: Results.  Throughout history, when it has to be done, and its going to be messy, there is a reason the Marines are often the first to fight:  Results.  Go ahead, prove me wrong. 
I'll never dispute that the other services don't fight, and dont fight well.  The Army fought well with the Marines in Fallujah, for example.
But the "every man is a rifleman" mentality of the Marine Corps sets us apart from them.  The training is tougher, longer, and more detailed than any other service. 

[Moondoggie]

C'mon, Gwher...you know what I'm talking about.

The Marine Corps has a "fire brigade" mentality.  That's demonstrated/reinforced by our having battalions on float, just ghosting off the coasts of potential trouble spots ready for immediate deployment.  By immediate, I mean on the ground with a self-sustaining combat team the same day.  That level of preparedness is supported by an uncommon ethos.  When we go ashore, our backup is a long way off.

I never said that the other services aren't part of the sword.  What I did imply is that the Marines are the tip of the sword, and we put ourselves there on purpose.

BTW, what the Marines do is accomplished with a disproportionately small portion of the defense budget relative to the amount of combat forces provided.  Less than half of the per capita costs of the other services.

[Moondoggie]

Also note that promotions in the Marine Corps are slower than any of the other services, we are awarded less personal decorations per capita than any of the other services, and our ratio of officer vs. enlisted members is far higher than any of the other services.  We also have a higher rate of NJP's.

We provide something like 6% of total DOD capabilities for 3% of the DOD budget last time I checked.  It's always been that way.

[Gewehr98]

I know what you said, but wanted to temper it.

Inter-service rivalry is indeed alive and well. You can toot your USMC horn all you want, but have the decency not to denigrate other branches of service in the process, ok?  It's only fair. Likewise, slow promotions never happen in other branches of service.  That's why I punched out after 20 years instead of going 30.  Reindeer games are reindeer games, regardless of service. Brown-nosing is very much equal-opportunity in that respect.

Now, I'm well aware that the Marines are usually the first in to harm's way, and expect to suffer the highest casualties when things get messy. They have a job to do, and that's why they're Marines. What the Marines cannot do, the SEALS and other SpecOps folks take care of in the hierarchy of force. That's well and good, since the USMC is administratively assigned under the Department of the Navy - amphibious warfare just wouldn't look right being administered by the Army.

I'm also under no misconceptions that combat and its effects on the human psyche are exclusive to the USMC, as much as some Gyrenes like to think. 

By way of exposure, my wife was a Marine.  So was her ex-husband. Her dad is a retired one-legged Marine GySgt who's on those films taken during the Evacuation of Saigon, and he's got no problems thwacking somebody with his prosthetic leg - the proverbial one-legged man in a butt-kicking contest, personified.  There's more Devil Dog paraphernalia in this house than USAF, save for my office. My wife looks at my framed B-52H and WC-135W pictures and grunts, "Airplane!" 

[Perd Hapley]

I'm not slamming Balog, or the younger folks who served an enlistment or two, but you really have to experience the culture for a decade or three to fully understand and appreciate why we are so strict about preserving the traditions and heritage.  Without them we might as well be the Army, Navy, or Air Force...but we're not.  We have elements of all three within our Service, but we're still unique...and uniquely successful.  You can argue against that point 'til the cows come home, but you can't argue against it successfully.

I think most of the issues dealt with in the new regs were similar to what I was used to in the Army a few years ago.  The big exception would be that the only rule I can recall about what was worn off-duty, would be mens' ear rings.  Sounds oxymoronic, I know.     Even then, I think that only mattered on-post. 

In the last few months of my active-duty tour, I roomed with a brand new supply clerk.  I couldn't believe they had girls in their basic training company.     His "boot camp" sounded a whole lot nicer than my time at the Infantry Training Brigade.  The point is, I think the difference between the Marine Corps and the combat arms of the Army might be a lot shorter than the difference between the Corps and the Army in General.  Of course, the Air Force is a whole different story. 

[Al Norris]

Moondoggie, like this one?

Heck, we had to show our Liberty Card in order to get into the EM-Club, out at Onslow Beach!

[mattw]

So why would you want to do that *expletive deleted*it anyway? You just look nasty when you walk and talk on your phone or walk and eat or any of that trash.

But maybe I just left some brain-cells on the PT field at OCS this summer...


KILL!

[Chris]

Funny, when I opened this thread, I half expected to see the Corps relaxing standards, in the P.C. world in which we seem to be living.  I was pleasantly surprised to see the opposite is true.  Could have followed the Army way of making everyone feel special and issuing everyone a beret that I worked my a$$ off to earn.  Of course, I was a member of a different Corps, the Corps of Cadets at West Point, so much of the sense of tradition, ceremony, etc. is in my blood as well.

As an Army puke, I respect the Jarheads, and their warrior ethic that is instilled in each of them.  You don't get the same in the other service branches.  Just don't insult me and mine because we wear a different uniform.  We'd kill for this country, same as you.

[Sergeant Bob]

I didn't really take anything Moondoggie said as an insult to any other branch  of service. Not even my beloved U.S. Air Force! Off we go, into the wild blue yonder (but I digress).

Every service has their own important place in the big picture. Its just that those gung ho jarheads are usually in the front, or the first to the top of the hill. That doesn't take anything away from anyone else.

I used to know a few Marines from Pendelton who used to come up top Norton AFB, for R & R, (that should tell ya something right there) who I used to go out drinking with. Anyone who had a problem with me, had a problem with them too. Thats just the way it is.

Anyway, I just have a whole lot of respect for our devildogs, God love em.

[Thor]

There are two reasons I didn't join the Marines. One was a guaranteed school, the other was a piss poor, apathetic USMC recruiter. Had the recruiter shown a little more interest in me, I might have gone USMC. Funny thing was my best friend from my first high school joined the Corps. He got the same school I did, Aviation Electronics Technician, taught at NATTC Millington. We both joined in 1975. He died in a helicopter crash, (a CH-53), sometime in late 1981. Hindsight being 20/20, I probably would have liked the Corps better.

[K Frame]

"My wife looks at my framed B-52H and WC-135W pictures and grunts, "Airplane!" 

Wow. The Marines are getting better at teaching their people that they're not "metal birds that drop explosive eggs."


 


My current job is working on a logistics software program for the Air Force. We have any number of former Zoomies around here.

Interestingly enough we also have quite a few former Marine Corps officers on staff here, and one or two Navy people.

Want to know what causes the MOST friction in the office, by far?

Yankess vs. Red Sox, closely followed by Green Bay vs. Redskins.


Being a Phillies/Eagles fan gets me more pity than anything else... 

[Perd Hapley]

You know, I've said some awfully nasty things about the Corps.  None of them have ever complained, or seemed to mind too much, like some thin-skinned non-Marines around here.    I guess I should have been a Marine. 

[RevDisk]

"My wife looks at my framed B-52H and WC-135W pictures and grunts, "Airplane!" 

Wow. The Marines are getting better at teaching their people that they're not "metal birds that drop explosive eggs."

My old roommate was a Marine.  He not very vigorously denied that the Corps calls grenades "boom rocks". 

[Jamisjockey]

"My wife looks at my framed B-52H and WC-135W pictures and grunts, "Airplane!" 

Wow. The Marines are getting better at teaching their people that they're not "metal birds that drop explosive eggs."

My old roommate was a Marine.  He not very vigorously denied that the Corps calls grenades "boom rocks". 

Funny!
They actually made us call flashlights "moonbeams" and pens "ink sticks" in boot camp.  I think the grunts tended to still call them that.