Wisconsin proposes $1/pack cigarette tax increase

[Monkeyleg]

Wisconsin is having budget problems, just like a lot of states.

Governor Doyle promised during his campaign that he would not raise income taxes or property taxes.

So, where to go for money? Why, smokers, of course.

Doyle has been having the heads of various state agencies float fee increases to the media, and has been watching the public reaction. When the transportation department suggested raising vehicle registration fees from $55 annually to $85, the public went nuts. And then Doyle said he wasn't in favor of such an increase.

But raising cigarette taxes? Why not? Only 25% of the public smokes, so there's not much downside.

Cigs are already over $4 a pack here.

The $1 increase is supposed to go for smoking education programs, smoking cessation programs, and other supposedly noble ventures.

In his first term, Doyle took the money the state got from lawsuits against tobacco companies--monies which were to go to these noble ventures--and used the money to help offset the overall budget deficit.

Want to bet that the estimated $227 million from increased cigarette taxes finds its way back into the general revenue stream?

[Warren]

Maybe he just wants to encourage smuggling.

[Strings]

I wonder how this'll be worked out for us "roll yer own" types? $1 per pack equals what for the pouches and tins?

 Hey... I gots a better revenue generating idea! Let's impose a tax on every dollar raised for political campaigns... say a quarter of every dollar raised for a political campaign must be paid into the state general fund?

[AJ Dual]

You filthy smokers deserve it. 

Only the things I care about should be protected... 

[Jamisjockey]

$1mil fines for any employer caught employing illegals.....there's my proprosal
 

[BakerMikeRomeo]

Want to bet that the estimated $227 million from increased cigarette taxes finds its way back into the general revenue stream?

HA! Whoever estimated that needs to have his tiny little brain examined. A little bit of tax evasion goes a long way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cigarettes#Online_cigarette_stores

I want to start smoking just to piss on people who hate it.

~GnSx

[Mannlicher]

its a wonderful side view of American politics.  On the one hand is the settlement with the tobaco companies, that the states depend on for cash flow.  On the other, as fewer and fewer people smoke, there is less and less revenue.   Frankly, if all smokers quite today, the health care system could not stand the added people that would survive the ravages of smoking.  Talk about a financial conundrum.  Despite the States wanting folks to quit puffing, they can't afford for that to happen.

[Vodka7]

I've lived in Philly, NYC, and a few smaller towns, and I can tell you something you see in big cities with huge cigarette taxes that you don't see in smaller towns--readily available buy one get ones, and buy two get ones.  The tobacco companies know that higher taxes mean a higher price per pack, so to keep people smoking and to avoid the tax, they give you a free pack.  Even though the average price per pack here in Philly is like $5.50, I pay on average $3-4 a pack with the specials.

And while I have seen B1G1 and B2G1's in other areas, the quantities I'm talking about here are way, way above what you'd see anywhere else.  There are two gas stations, a corner market, and a pharmacy within walking distance of my aparment, and I guarantee you all four of them will have at least two different brands with free packs every single day of the week (the pharmacy and corner store usually have about five brands with specials, and we're talking Marlboro and Newports here, not Kools or GPC's.)

So while the state gets a bit of money (nowhere near what they anticipate, of course), the consumer isn't really affected, and the tobacco companies have to suffer through a little bit less profit than they're used to.  And of course, no one quits smoking.

[Monkeyleg]

Yes, and a standard semi-trailer can hold as many as 70,000 cartons of cigarettes.

Organized crime, anyone?

[Standing Wolf]

Once upon a time, we foughtand wona revolution over the idea of no taxation without representation.

Government always finds a way to devolve into tyranny.

[Perd Hapley]

Interesting, Vodka.  I pasted that in an email to my pastor.  Give him something to think about. 

[Gewehr98]

I hate cigarette smoke.  My folks each smoked a pack a day, and everything in the house reeked of it.  My mom still smokes these days, and after an afternoon visiting her, my wife and I change clothes once we're home.

Regardless, as much as I dislike the habit, I dislike even more the idea that people's right to do so can be legislated away, either by straight-up zoning laws, or back door BS like the $1/pack increase in price.

Roll your own sounds like a way around it.  Same thing I do for all my ammo, handloaded sans Federal Excise Tax. 

[Jamisjockey]

What bugs me most is that its a tax on 25% of the population.  Its picking on a minority group, even if its an unhealthy vice. 

[The Rabbi]

I have no problem with raising those taxes per se since I don't smoke.  But I do think it is short-sighted since,as pointed out, it makes an incredibly lucrative market in bootlegged goods.
There was an article in the WSJ some time back about this in NYC.  The level for a felony is something like 250 cases.  So people take cargo vans to NC and load up with 249 cases.  Then they drive to NYC, stand around the subways and sell them for $2 less than in the stores and $3 more than they paid for them.  Cops don't even write tickets for this anymore.

[HankB]

Wisconsin is having budget problems, just like a lot of states . . .  So, where to go for money? Why, smokers, of course. . . . The $1 increase is supposed to go for smoking education programs, smoking cessation programs, and other supposedly noble ventures.

Let me get this straight . . . the state is having budget problems with its current programs, so they're proposing a $1/pack tax on cigarettes . . . which will be spent on new programs.

Will somebody please explain to me how diverting new revenue into new programs will help with the budget shortfall caused by overspending on the state's current programs?

[K Frame]

Couple of years ago New York raised the tax on cigarettes to astonishing levels, supposedly to help end the scourge of smoking.

Huge numbers of smokers either quit, or in violation of the law, started getting their smokes from other states.


What did the state do?

Started crying about reduced tax income levels.

[Perd Hapley]

What bugs me most is that its a tax on 25% of the population.  Its picking on a minority group, even if its an unhealthy vice. 

I'm against this tax, too, but is that your real reason?  Criminals are a minority.  Business owners pay certain taxes, and they're a minority.  I'm sure we could think of other cases where behavior-defined minorities are treated differently from others. 

[Monkeyleg]

Well, the Guv chimed in today. At a press conference, he said, "I'm pretty reluctant to go in a direction where we raise money to fight smoking and then take the money and don't use it for that purpose."

Hey, butthead! That's exactly what you did almost four years ago when you raided the tobacco lawsuit fund.

Mike Irwin, I've read some accounts that some street gangs in NY have switched from dealing cocaine to selling smuggled cigarettes. Lots of money, and less punishment.

Think about those 70,000 cartons of cigarettes that fit in a semi trailer. Even if hijackers sold the cartons to middlemen for $5 each, that's $350,000 for one trailer. The middlemen sell the cartons for $10 each to street-level dealers, and make $350,000. The street dealers sell them for whatever, and everybody is happy. Except the government, of course.

[crt360]

I understand Texas is also adding an extra $1.00 tax to cigs and other tobacco products soon.  They expect to raise a billion dollars a year from it.  I never smoked cigarettes, but I did enjoy tobacco of the smokeless variety.  I did it mainly when I was in law school and found that it greatly enhanced my ability to concentrate and read large volumes of unbelievably boring material.  I would estimate that the percentage of tobacco users in law school was easily 2-3 times that of the general population.  I was a moderate to light user and it took me a long time to finally quit, so I know how addictive the stuff is.

The states are taking advantage of people with a health problem to make money, which puts them on about the same level as the tobacco companies.  If the state really had its citizens' best interests in mind and wanted people to quit smoking, it could use the $0.41 tax it already charges to set up or support small help clinics at the street level that actually interact with people instead of just throwing away a few million a year on TV ads or other ineffective campaigns.  But hey, it's the same state that promotes urban sprawl and makes it impossible to go anywhere safely on a bicycle or on foot, while telling people they don't exercise enough; the same state that takes more and more of your money to build and maintain bigger, faster roads and highways, so you have to spend more on bigger vehicles and expensive gas to carry all of your crap on your daily commute which covers more miles than some families used to on their summer vacation.  F' the G', man. 

Back to the topic.  I think the dollar a pack tax is stupid, especially if a cent of that money is going to anything other than tobacco related health care, be it cessation programs or long-term treatment.  I personally don't like smoking, but know well the power of nicotine and if people make it a part of their lifestyle, I'm not going to support punishing them with an oppressive tax.

[brimic]

Wisconsinites can always go to the Indian smoke shops in places like Green Bay and stock up on tax free smokes. I doubt the Indians will be required to charge the extra $1 tax.

[Monkeyleg]

brimic, judging from what the indian casinos around here charge, you wouldn't save much more than maybe 50 cents a pack. If even that.

They know where the price point is.

OTOH, the last time I visited Kentucky, I bought cigarettes there for half of what we pay here. If I'd been driving my truck, instead of riding my motorcycle, I would have filled the truck with cigarettes.

But my point is not about cigarettes per se. It's about the idiots who run our governments. Almost none of them seem to have learned anything from history.

Ban something, and a criminal and/or underground economy grows to fill the void.

Raise taxes, and people will either find a way to evade taxes, or just leave for a better tax environment.

Abuse the citizens, and they will leave. Or, if things really get out of hand, they'll put the heads of their abusers on stakes.

It's History 101. Amazing how many of these elected dolts haven't bothered to study it.

[Strings]

>Or, if things really get out of hand, they'll put the heads of their abusers on stakes.<

Dick, think about the last election cycle. Then revisit the quoted remark...

 The folks in this state will, upon being anally raped, bend over and in an Oliver Twist voice ask "please sir, can I have some mo'?".

[Sergeant Bob]

I think all Wisconsin smokers should unite and really stick it to the Gov.

Quit being buttheads and quit smoking. Deny them their ill gotten gains.

You'd all smell a lot better too.

[garyk/nm]

When I left Washington 3 years ago, cigs were $55ish a carton, with another proposed $1/pack hike on the horizon. Wonder if they've hit $100/carton yet with Gregoire in the mansion.
I buy mine on the local rez for $18.00/carton. In the non-indian stores they're $45. Guess what the difference is.
What really kills me is charging sales tax on something that is already 60% tax. Talk about stacking!

[Guest]

cigarette taxs are stupid