Author Topic: Freaking out about fuel costs ..... my TEOTWAWKI scenario is morphing  (Read 12251 times)

StopTheGrays

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The undrilled oil in U.S. territories will take a decade or more to recover and process.
Or not. The oil fields in the Dakotas may well contain more oil than Saudi Arabia ever had, and is quite profitable to recover at $20 a bbl.

At $30-40 a bbl, it is profitable to convert our almost unlimited supplies of coal to oil.

Oil sand deposits are another place where higher prices make recovery very feasible.

The real bottleneck is refining capacity.

Guess who is the real culprit???
The weak dollar and commodities speculators?
Does any image illustrate so neatly the wrongheadedness of the Obama administration than Americans scrambling in terror from Air Force One?
Just great…Chicago politics has spread to all 57 states.
They told me if I voted for John McCain, my country would look like it is run by people with a disturbing affinity towards fascism. And they were right!

ssn vet

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Well my "cost of living" whine turned into a political diatribe.

Got to get that stuff off of my chest every now and again.

My real point in connecting inflation to TEOTWAWKI, was because I think the future isn't going to be stockpiling ammo in bomb shelters....

But rather...

I think we could be looking at a prolonged recession that would change "the states as we know it".  And that many (most?) of us could be reduced economically to the Walton's squeeking by (if we're lucky) or homeless beggers (if we're not).

Fortunately, we have 5.5 acres in a fairly rural setting.  We could do a serious garden.  Can cut wood off ours and neighbors land.

We have only two debts....our house and one vehicle.

I have a decent and secure job as an engineer at a company that historically does well during economic hard times.  But it won't keep up with inflation.

Wo I predict our standard of living dropping significantly in the next five years.


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The people who are going to come through this the best are the Amish and the Hutterites.

that's a huge insight.

they have three things really going for them...

1.  they've avoided debt to secular institutions
2.  they live off the land independant of many of societies intitutions
3.  they live in a close knit commuity with both it's own sub-economy and strong ethical norms.

.......

Hmmmm!

time to start a commune?




"aint no slack in fast attack"

Manedwolf

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Fuel costs do need to come down soon. A lot of people are maxing out their credit cards to pay for gas.

The Annoyed Man

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Or not. The oil fields in the Dakotas may well contain more oil than Saudi Arabia ever had, and is quite profitable to recover at $20 a bbl.

At $30-40 a bbl, it is profitable to convert our almost unlimited supplies of coal to oil.

Oil sand deposits are another place where higher prices make recovery very feasible.

The real bottleneck is refining capacity.

Guess who is the real culprit???

Except none of that will happen lest it cut into Big Oil's record profits.

Manedwolf

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Or not. The oil fields in the Dakotas may well contain more oil than Saudi Arabia ever had, and is quite profitable to recover at $20 a bbl.

At $30-40 a bbl, it is profitable to convert our almost unlimited supplies of coal to oil.

Oil sand deposits are another place where higher prices make recovery very feasible.

The real bottleneck is refining capacity.

Guess who is the real culprit???

Except none of that will happen lest it cut into Big Oil's record profits.

Actually, they've tried to build new refineries numerous times, but the greenies file lawsuits and block them.

ssn vet

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the most likely scenario for an insurrection in the USA would be a tax protest.  I think once people have to choose between eating and staying warm and paying taxes that we may see the scenario come to pass.


Hmmm....initial stages may have started already....like our friendly neighborhood dentist here in NH.


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FISTFUL

Huh? you're going to have to help me out with that one.
"aint no slack in fast attack"

The Annoyed Man

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Actually, they've tried to build new refineries numerous times, but the greenies file lawsuits and block them.

I knew that was coming.  The richest, most profitable companies in the history of the world are the victims of a few bearded treehuggers.  Yeah right.   That makes even less sense than Hitler blaming Jews for Germany's problems.  Big Oil could build refineries if it wanted to.  But why spend money that won't add to the bottom line?   It's a bidness decision, pure and simple.

The Annoyed Man

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Wo I predict our standard of living dropping significantly in the next five years.

The standard of living in this country has been dropping since the 80's and the 'trickle down economics' merger of corporations and government.

Manedwolf

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Actually, they've tried to build new refineries numerous times, but the greenies file lawsuits and block them.

I knew that was coming.  The richest, most profitable companies in the history of the world are the victims of a few bearded treehuggers.  Yeah right.   That makes even less sense than Hitler blaming Jews for Germany's problems.  Big Oil could build refineries if it wanted to.  But why spend money that won't add to the bottom line?   It's a bidness decision, pure and simple.

Congratulations, you just Godwin'ed the thread.  rolleyes

The Annoyed Man

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If the shoe fits.......................

280plus

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FISTFUL!!

Huh? you're going to have to help me out with that one.
Ah, you're new here. Fistful (or maybe he's "Creepy Picture" today) is the board scapegoat. No matter what has gone wrong, is going wrong or will go wrong it's his fault. WWII? Fistful's fault,,,rising gas prices, yup, Fistful,,,Boss urinate on your cornflakes today? Fistful, again. get the picture?  grin
Avoid cliches like the plague!

280plus

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PS...

I won't call you a bubble if you don't call me a target...  laugh
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Tallpine

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time to start a commune?

Only if it includes polygamy  grin


The Amish will do all right.  The "Hoots" might have a problem since they are heavily mechanized.  The colonies usually have the biggest and newest tractors and combines of anyone around.
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Gewehr98

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Actually, they've tried to build new refineries numerous times, but the greenies file lawsuits and block them.

Exactly.  No new refineries built since the 1970s, and there are oodles of legislative hurdles to overcome, so I put a conservative 10 year estimate on when the consumer will see any sizable domestic oil increases worth writing home about.

BTW, Paddy, way to Godwin the thread!  undecided
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The Annoyed Man

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BTW, Paddy, way to Godwin the thread!  undecided

I suggest you explore the meaning of 'Godwin'.  No one said Big Oil are Nazis.  Rather the logic of blaming a few hippies for high gas prices is as absurd as Jews being responsible for Germany's problems in the 1930's.  Both make about as much sense.  Which is none.

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RocketMan

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Actually, they've tried to build new refineries numerous times, but the greenies file lawsuits and block them.

I knew that was coming.  The richest, most profitable companies in the history of the world are the victims of a few bearded treehuggers.  Yeah right.   That makes even less sense than Hitler blaming Jews for Germany's problems.  Big Oil could build refineries if it wanted to.  But why spend money that won't add to the bottom line?   It's a bidness decision, pure and simple.

Yes, the greenies do file suit and stop them.  Like they do with many other things.
However, "Big Oil" has been expanding existing refineries all over the place because that is the only option open to them.  Google that one, leave off the knee-jerk responses.
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Gewehr98

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Funny, that.

Exxon told shareholders recently that it has no plans whatsoever to boost production through at least 2012: 

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.aspx?feed=BWK&date=20080323&id=8373065
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

http://neuralmisfires.blogspot.com

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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Read that article more carefully.  It says that Exxon does plan to add new production.  Lots of it, in fact.  They have a number of new operations coming on line in Russia, Africa, and the Mid East. 

The problem is that while those operations are coming online, their older operations are declining.  They expect rapid declines in production from their American and European sources.  The declines offset the the new production, resulting in no net expansion.

Golly, I wonder why Exxon can't increase, or even just maintain, its domestic oil production...?

Nick1911

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Golly, I wonder why Exxon can't increase, or even just maintain, its domestic oil production...?

There's two sides to every story.  I don't think Exxon is a big evil company hell-bent on "screwing the proletariat."

At the same time, what would they (OPEC, Exxon) have to gain by increasing production?  Fuel doesn't appear to be elastic - if you need gas to get to work in the morning, you'll buy gas at $3.00, $4.00, $7.00.  A lot of people and industry can't simply "stop driving".


Gewehr98

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I read the article.  Then I linked to it.  They predicted an increase in consumer demand in the out years. Bottom line is that they don't expect to meet that growth, even with their new "projects". 

Some analysts predict Exxon is more focused on buying out their public shares, with the ultimate goal of going private or even turning into a trust and disappearing.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/JubaksJournal/IsExxonMobilsFutureRunningDry.aspx
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

http://neuralmisfires.blogspot.com

"Never squat with your spurs on!"

lupinus

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you're going to have to help me out with that one.
There are two rules of APS

You do not talk about APS
It is fisfuls fault

And Paddy-
It's not "a few hippies" some of the richest people in this country are lefty pinko nutjobs *cough*soros*cough*

With the environment crazy political environment we live in new refineries are demonized, and getting one built is expensive and extremely hard to do.  I can't fault anyone, corporation or otherwise, for not taking it up the ass to build one while the situation is as it is.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Balog

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And just try getting a nuke plant built.
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taurusowner

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Funny, that.

Exxon told shareholders recently that it has no plans whatsoever to boost production through at least 2012: 

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.aspx?feed=BWK&date=20080323&id=8373065

It's hard to have plans to do something illegal.

The Annoyed Man

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The next (and final) Arab-Israeli war will go full tilt, with Israel supernaturally kicking everyone's tail, just like they've done in the past.

Ahahaha!

Sorry.

In 1973, Israel won because America saved us.

In 1982, Israel *lost*.

In the last war, Israel screwed up epically.

The IDF is just not as it used to be.

I blame the discos that became prevalent in Tel Aviv in the 70's and 80's.