Author Topic: Freaking out about fuel costs ..... my TEOTWAWKI scenario is morphing  (Read 12270 times)

ssn vet

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Even though we burn wood (which I cut off our property), we still consumed 850 gal. of LPG last year .... @~$2.75/gal.  ------------------------> ~$2,400/year

Both my wife and I drive as little as possible, yet we burn ~25 gal./week total in our gas tanks.....@~$3.70/ga. ---> ~$4,800/year

and that's pushing ~14% of my NET income (after they lop out ~$1,000/mo. for health insurance)

Now here's the catch....

It's looking VERY LIKELY that gas is going to go up to $5.00/gal. by fall of '08.

That's going to tack on another ~$1,700/year just to pay for gas.

LPG will probably go up ~10%, so that's another $240

Then there's FOOD!!!

Milk and eggs and everything else is going through the roof!

From what I'm reading.....food prices are going to DOUBLE in the next year or two!  And I'm feeding a family of 5 with 3 of them in the growing years!!

-----------------------

So here's where I'm going with this....

I'm thinking that TEOTWAWKI is going to look differently than the typical internet scenarios....

I'm beginning to think it's going to look more like.......

1.  U.S. loses it's status as an economic power house.

2.  U.S. economic interests overseas are supplanted by foreign economic and political entities.

3.  The dollar keeps falling.

4.  Consumer spending will not be able to pull the country out of the economic slump (recession?), because every spare dime will be spent at the gas pump, heating/cooling houses and feeding the kids.

5.  The ever growing chasm between the haves and have not's is going to turn into a HUGE GULf.

6.  The federal government is going to go nuts with social spending.

7.  The ugly bills from the Iraq and Afghan. wars, the IOU from the social security trust fund, which we've been avoiding for so long, are going to come due.

8.  The U.S. will cease to be the preferred place for investment for foreign corporations and governments.

9.  The Feds going to try to combat inflation the only way they know, with the only tool they have.....increasing interest rates.

10. The raising cost of capital will effectively kill the housing market on a long term basis.

11.  Stagflation will rule the day.

12.  Obama will do the only thing that Democrats know how to do, massive social give aways and massive tax increases for the "wealthy" (defined as anyone who makes >$40,000).

13.  To pay for all this, the politicians will do what they always do, borrow more and print more money, which will result in HYPER INFLATION....especially affecting the necessities (food, fuel & health care).  The cost of a bag of groceries and a tank of gas will exceed that of a hot rod computer.

14.  Local governments will be crippled by the loss of income and sales tax revenue along with the increased cost of providing essential services and will raise property taxes like you've never seen.
14.  People who's living expenses exceed 50% of their income, along with most all of the AARP types living on limited savings and pensions, will be bit the hardest, as they can't afford to pay their property taxes, heat their homes, pay medical bills and eat.
15.  Foreclosures and tax default seizures will make the current "crisis" seem like the good ol' days.
16.  As a new peasant class grows ever larger, state agencies providing services will be overwhelmed and eventually, as they tally up larger and larger percentages of strapped state budgets, will be shut down.
17.  As the Feds look to tax the big corporations to bail out the social services crisis, the flight of industry from the U.S. will accelerate.  Chrysler, G.M. and Ford will go bankrupt (in that order) as China gets fully developed in auto manufacturing.  Unemployment will raise to >20% with it's predictable affect on government tax revenues and demand for government welfare.
18.  As social unrest brews and bubbles over in the U.S., real power will shift to where the money is....international corporate conglomerates & organized crime.
19,  Wealthy people will take flight from the U.S. with a new immigration trend, further stripping the country of dollars.

Then the fun begins....collapse of government authority...organization of the surfs into tribal systems....Latinos, blacks, Italians, Irish, Asians, whites (the same ol' ethnic and racial divides).

Then just to really muddy the waters...

Iran will finish their nuke, give it to Hezbollah and they'll lob it at Tel Aviv the next day.  The western powers WILL NOT RESPOND in any meaningful way.  The next (and final) Arab-Israeli war will go full tilt, with Israel supernaturally kicking everyone's tail, just like they've done in the past.  A lot of sand will get turned to glass in the middle east.  The production of oil from the middle east will slam to a halt.

North Korea will take note of how INEPT the west has become and as they have their bi-annual economic collapse, with up the anti in their extortion game.  South Korea and Japan will be totally involved in dealing with this.

Global power will shift to where the money is....

Russia (banking $$$ as they pipe natural gas to Europe)
China (banking $$$ as they become the worlds manufacturer of everything)
Persia (will set up a puppet Shia government in Iraq, snap up Kuwait in the vacuum of U.S. global influence and breathe hard down the necks of the Arabs).

Global power will shift away from....
The U.S. (see reasons above)
Europe  (economic melt down and Jihad will Balkanize France and Germany)

......

O.K.   stop and breath....this is to much fun....

.......

Now...

discussion....

What course should the U.S. take to head this off?

and my real question....

What course should middle class families take to survive in this economic TEOTWAWKI scenario?


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wmenorr67

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Supply and demand will kick in and prices will drop.

Plus the market in China is eventually going to top out as the continue to "modernize."  There is some speculation that after the Olympics things in China will peter out and return to "normal."
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Scout26

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Just let me know when it's time to go running out into the streets to shoot zombies/dragons/liberals.....
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http://keysnews.com/classifieds/0220.html

Quote
High gas prices drive farmer to switch to mules

MCMINNVILLE, Tenn. (AP) - High gas prices have driven a Warren County farmer and his sons to hitch a tractor rake to a pair of mules to gather hay from their fields. T.R. Raymond bought Dolly and Molly at the Dixon mule sale last year. Son Danny Raymond trained them and also modified the tractor rake so the mules could pull it.
T.R. Raymond says the mules are slower than a petroleum-powered tractor, but there are benefits.

"This fuel's so high, you can't afford it," he said. "We can feed these mules cheaper than we can buy fuel. That's the truth."

And Danny Raymond says he just likes using the mules around the farm.

"We've been using them quite a bit," he said.

Brother Robert Raymond added, "It's the way of the future."


I learned how to hitch and drive horses a few years ago, I'm set for Tiki Wiki to happen!

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MicroBalrog

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The next (and final) Arab-Israeli war will go full tilt, with Israel supernaturally kicking everyone's tail, just like they've done in the past.

Ahahaha!

Sorry.

In 1973, Israel won because America saved us.

In 1982, Israel *lost*.

In the last war, Israel screwed up epically.

The IDF is just not as it used to be.
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Ben

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There is some speculation that after the Olympics things in China will peter out and return to "normal."

Yup, besides the speculation stuff going on, China is going nuts with the diesel stockpiling for their power plants right now to ensure they don't look bad during the Olympics. It'll be interesting to watch the market the couple of months following the Olympics.
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Tallpine

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What course should the U.S. take to head this off?

I should think that would be obvious, but I won't say it  laugh


Quote
What course should middle class families take to survive in this economic TEOTWAWKI scenario?

I've been pondering this very thing myself, and don't have a good answer.  The people who are going to come through this the best are the Amish and the Hutterites.

Maybe max out your credit card to stockpile food at current prices ...?  undecided
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wmenorr67

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Wait, I know the answer.

We need to start a War For Oil.  Oh, wait a minute, we are in one now.  Oh, wait a minute, are we?
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

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Nick1911

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For the individual, energy and food independence are the solution, but there's no way to implement this for most. Sad

Manedwolf

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Personal conservation. Drive what you have to for commuting, but drive less otherwise.

Not going down to the Big E gunshow in Springfield this year because it's 119 miles away. Just too expensive for gas, when I might not find any good deals anyway.

Tallpine

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Personal conservation. Drive what you have to for commuting, but drive less otherwise.

But then you won't be going to Stuff-Mart every day to spend money and our economy will crash  shocked

Why do you "hate America" ?  grin
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

mtnbkr

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Personal conservation. Drive what you have to for commuting, but drive less otherwise.

But then you won't be going to Stuff-Mart every day to spend money and our economy will crash  shocked

Why do you "hate America" ?  grin

My stuff-mart is within biking distance. Smiley 

Biking to stuff-mart...does that mean I like America because I'm shopping or hate America because I'm riding a bike instead of driving a car?  I'm confused.

Chris

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Quote
Personal conservation. Drive what you have to for commuting, but drive less otherwise.

But then you won't be going to Stuff-Mart every day to spend money and our economy will crash  shocked

Why do you "hate America" ?  grin

My stuff-mart is within biking distance. Smiley 

Biking to stuff-mart...does that mean I like America because I'm shopping or hate America because I'm riding a bike instead of driving a car?  I'm confused.

Chris



Check out my new ride at Wally World



On my way to a fishing trip
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Werewolf

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To survive the scenario as described:

GET OFF THE GRID:

1. Acquire 30 to 40 acres in the boonies
2. Build an underground or semi-underground house on same.
3. Dig a well. Use a windmill to pump water backed up with a small electric pump powered by 5.
4. Power all with a wind turbine and solar
5. Learn to can various food stuffs
6. Start growing various food stuffs and can same
7. Set up a blacksmith shop
8. Learn blacksmithing skills like how to make various metal tools, horse shoes, nails, saws etc
9. Start making same
10. Stock up on metal stocks
11. Acquire breeding stock of chickens, pigs, cows, horses etc
12. Breed same as domestic work animals and food
13. Get guns
14. Get plenty of ammo and stuff to reload said ammo
15. Practice with guns and ammo
16. Develop defense plan for when civ collapses because everyone and his brother will be wanting what you've got
17. Practice plan
18. Plan for said plan to fail and have a backup plan
19. Practice backup plan

Finally - when civilization collapses - well - that's another story entirely...

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AZRedhawk44

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If you live anywhere remotely sunny, buy solar now.

Pick up one item a month if you can afford it... A solar panel one month, a charge controller next, a DC-AC inverter next, deep cycle battery next.  Add solar panels and batteries until you reach peak AC wattage on your AC inverter or max out your charge controller's capabilities, then split the system in half and distribute it to different loads in your home.  Run the solar-AC system on separate electrical lines to avoid bridging your city-supplied system and your own system.  Once you can safely produce a solid 1000 Watts an hour during sunlight, store around 12,000 watt-hours in your battery well and can subsist your house 24-hours at ~500 watts (or some similar ratio), either bridge the system or go off-grid.

Or conversely, if it's windy where you live, do the same thing with wind turbines.

See what it takes to get 10% off grid, and do it.  Even if you just run your fridge to begin with.  Eventually you can get more of your house off-grid.
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taurusowner

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Solution: Start drilling the ####ing trillion barrels of oil the US already has in the ground.

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Every day I want to get out of our apartment more and more.  sad
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280plus

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$4.07 here in CT. 06 I spent $4000 in gas, 07 I spent $6,400 in gas this year? It just cost me $74 for a 1/2 a tank. All I can do is raise my prices and try to consolidate trips best I can. Looked into getting a smaller truck. It just won't work. I have to carry too much weight and a lighter truck will just fall apart way too soon. Been there...

I'll tell you one thing, I turned in a furnace at the scrapyard the other day and got $1.98/lb for it so if you're the ambitious type I'd start collecting all this junk steel I see around no matter where I go in the US and cash it in. A smart operator could put together a pretty good living doing that, while the prices are elevated anyways. I mean, I can't remember exactly where I saw it but it seemed like I kept coming across acres and acres of abandoned cars, trucks and equipment. That's a lotta dough just sitting there. Now I'm thinking maybe upstate NY headed towards Seneca was where I saw this. I was in awe.
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Manedwolf

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I'll tell you one thing, I turned in a furnace at the scrapyard the other day and got $1.98/lb for it so if you're the ambitious type I'd start collecting all this junk steel I see around no matter where I go in the US and cash it in. A smart operator could put together a pretty good living doing that, while the prices are elevated anyways. I mean, I can't remember exactly where I saw it but it seemed like I kept coming across acres and acres of abandoned cars, trucks and equipment. That's a lotta dough just sitting there. Now I'm thinking maybe upstate NY headed towards Seneca was where I saw this. I was in awe.

Thieves are finding it easier to steal the $200+ catalytic converters off cars and the copper pipes out of unsold houses, unfortunately.

Gewehr98

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The undrilled oil in U.S. territories will take a decade or more to recover and process.

Then it will only postpone the inevitable as it, too, trickles out - peak oil is here.  

We've been using foreign petroleum to conserve our own reserves, IMHO.  Now those foreigners aren't so generous, and China is only growing in their thirst.

In the meantime, crude is heading towards $200/barrel, and $5.00/gallon or worse isn't such a stretch, even for the naysayers.  

That's regardless of whether it's supply and demand, speculative market purchases, hoarding, people filling up more often to avoid the next day's price increase, or whatever.

Memorial Day weekend's upon us, and it's gonna be $4.00/gallon, period.

I see one of the biggest Ford dealerships in SoCal, Family Ford of Rancho Santa Margarita, is now tango-uniform because they couldn't pay Ford for their sitting inventory.  I'll file that right next to the Janesville Suburban/Tahoe plant laying off people, as a sign of the times.

I've got about 25% of the home off-grid with solar electric right now.  I'm working hard to get the rest converted.  

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The Annoyed Man

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And still we have no national energy policy.

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I remind everyone:  the FBI Agents in my class at Chapman Academy told me that the most likely scenario for an insurrection in the USA would be a tax protest.  

I think once people have to choose between eating and staying warm and paying taxes that we may see the scenario come to pass.

They laugh at me around here for stockpiling food and ammo.  I reply, "buy it cheap, stack it deep." grin
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280plus

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I see one of the biggest Ford dealerships in SoCal, Family Ford of Rancho Santa Margarita, is now tango-uniform because they couldn't pay Ford for their sitting inventory.  I'll file that right next to the Janesville Suburban/Tahoe plant laying off people, as a sign of the times.
I was just talking to my brother the Ford mechanic about this. I was on the lot and there ain't no cars. Why? Because rather than pay the lot cost on the inventory they've sold it off and not replaced it.
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ilbob

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The undrilled oil in U.S. territories will take a decade or more to recover and process.
Or not. The oil fields in the Dakotas may well contain more oil than Saudi Arabia ever had, and is quite profitable to recover at $20 a bbl.

At $30-40 a bbl, it is profitable to convert our almost unlimited supplies of coal to oil.

Oil sand deposits are another place where higher prices make recovery very feasible.

The real bottleneck is refining capacity.

Guess who is the real culprit???
bob

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280plus

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FISTFUL!!   angry
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