Good cartoon summary of the Barry Bonds record*

[Manedwolf]

How I feel, at least, about his breaking of Hank Aaron's Record.*



*, indeed.

[K Frame]

While there's no conclusive proof that Bonds has taken steriords, he certainly has bulked up quite a bit over the years...

[wmenorr67]

That is just so wrong Mike.  His head was smaller when he started out.

[280plus]

 

Yea, Aaron didn't need to be stickin' no needles in his ass. Bonds doesn't impress me in the least. Want to be impressed? Go to the baseball hall of fame in Cooperstown and see the bat that Ruth used to hit 6 HRs in the World Series. I can't recall whether it was in one game or the whole series, either way THAT impressed me.

[K Frame]

"I can't recall whether it was in one game or the whole series..."

Sorry, but the most homers Ruth ever had in one World Series is 4, in 1926.

I think the most home runs ever hit by a player in one World Series game is 3, by Reggie Jackson in 1977. Jackson also holds the record for most homeruns in an entire series, 5, also in 1977.

That information comes from the Baseball Almanac: http://www.baseball-almanac.com/rb_ws3.shtml


Wait, Babe Ruth also hit 3 home runs in one game twice -- 1926 and 1928.

[280plus]

Ok, maybe it was four then, I know it took place during one world series and 1926 rings a bell. Crap, now I hafta go back to Cooperstown and read the caption again. 

[jeepmor]

Did they boo him when he hit the record?  I sure hope so.  I have more respect for Pete Rose and Kobe Bryant.....ugh.

[ArfinGreebly]

Disclaimer:  I don't follow baseball.  I have no bias regarding one team or another and no bias for or against any player.

You know, steroids does not make a man a better hitter.

Stronger, maybe.

But stronger doesn't equal better hitter.  (See Tiger Woods "bulk up and putt more poorly" model.)

You still have to hit the ball.

You still have to have the technique to loft it way out there.

Muscle doesn't hit a pitched ball.

You have to have an eye for that, and reflexes, and a keen sense of timing.

None of those come from steroids -- in fact steroids can interfere with all those.

So, does he have an "unfair" bulk advantage?

Maybe.

But bulk doesn't hit balls.

That takes skill.

[Balog]

Of all the things I care about in this world, what drug some guy who gets paid to play a sport uses ranks as second to last. Very last? Anything anyone in Hollywood does.

I may play or watch the sport on rare occasions and I enjoy movies and tv shows, but the retards who participate in them have no interest to me.

[K Frame]

No one is disputing that, Arfin.

Barry Bonds put up legitimate Hall of Fame numbers before he was ever accused of juicing.

What he's done, though, is rob his pursuit of one of baseball's most hallowed records of any purpose.

I'll never look at Barry Bonds and see the all-time home run king.

[K Frame]

Of all the things I care about in this world, what drug some guy who gets paid to play a sport uses ranks as second to last. Very last? Anything anyone in Hollywood does.

I may play or watch the sport on rare occasions and I enjoy movies and tv shows, but the retards who participate in them have no interest to me.

So you don't like baseball.

Good for you.

Why don't you and Mtnbkr, who also hates baseball, get together and go to your "Young Communists for the Destruction of Capitals America" meeting now, comrad? 

[Balog]

I never said I dislike baseball. I said I hate that our culture venerates people who play games or pretend to be other people on film.

[K Frame]

I never said I dislike baseball. I said I hate that our culture venerates people who play games or pretend to be other people on film.

Order of borscht and strong black tea up for Balog!

You think it's EVER been any different in the history of man?

People have ALWAYS held up to levels of higher esteem those who excel in their fields.

The Greeks wrote odes to their frigging Olympians, Roman gladiators could be treated like gods, even while they were slaves.

No different at any point in history.

[ONE-SHOT-ONE]

ArfinGreebly'

it may not make a difference on how many hits but the record is for how many went over the wall, extra mussle would make a difference there!?!?

[Manedwolf]

No one is disputing that, Arfin.

Barry Bonds put up legitimate Hall of Fame numbers before he was ever accused of juicing.

What he's done, though, is rob his pursuit of one of baseball's most hallowed records of any purpose.

I'll never look at Barry Bonds and see the all-time home run king.

Likewise. I would prefer people look at sports heroes as having developed their natural gifts through lots of practice and hard work.

"Win at any cost, even if you have to cheat" is not something I will celebrate.

[Mabs2]

I, for the record, loathe baseball above all other sports, but I also loathe the others.

[K Frame]

I, for the record, loathe baseball above all other sports, but I also loathe the others.

We'll alert the media... 

[Jamisjockey]

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/46188




Halloween, anyone?

[Silver Bullet]

steroids does not make a man a better hitter.

Really ?  You might be right, but then the question is, why is he taking them (if the rumors are true) ?

From the dreaded and much maligned Wikipedia (50 home run club):

60+ home run club.

number  player                     year

73      Barry Bonds         2001

70      Mark McGwire        1998

66      Sammy Sosa          1998

65      Mark McGwire        1999

64      Sammy Sosa          2001

63      Sammy Sosa          1999

61      Roger Maris            1961

60      Babe Ruth                  1927


Anything leap out at you here ?

[K Frame]

Bullet,

I think you're missing Arfin's point.

Steroids don't make someone a "better" hitter, they make the individual a stronger hitter, able to power the ball farther and turn flyouts into homers.

A better way of looking at it, I think, would be their batting averages, number of hits, on base percentage, strikeouts etc., during those years as compared to earlier in their careers. Those statistics give a much better indication of the inherent abilities of a hitter.

[roo_ster]

Why would a baseball player use 'roids?  Well, same as most athletes.

Recovery & healing are at the top of the list.  Folks like Cal Ripkin are exceedingly rare.  Most folks get busted up or just plain need time off to recover, as their muscles get broken down form strenuous activity.  As testosterone levels fall over the years, the time needed to recover is longer.  Kinda why 'roids are often prescribed to chemotherapy patients.

If the injury is of the  muscle or connective tissue, 'roids will help heal you up faster from pulls, tears, sprains, etc.

Strength & power is probably a secondary/tertiary benefit with a lot of athletes that really have no need of monster muscles.

Good luck stopping 'roid use at the pro level.  There are boutique formulations that show up on no tests cooked up all the time.  If you have the cash, you can have the 'roids. 

Also, human growth hormone has come on strong in the last decade.  Good luck stopping that one.

The testers/rules-making bodies will always be playing catch up.  They will catch only the dumb or those who can not afford the best.

[Silver Bullet]

Steroids don't make someone a "better" hitter, they make the individual a stronger hitter, able to power the ball farther and turn flyouts into homers.

I understand your distinction, but I thought Arfin was stating, in more general terms, that taking steroids does not give one an advantage in results, and that it is therefore not relevant.  The ability to hit the ball farther and turn flyouts into homers falls under my "advantage" category.

But, as before, I don't think any of these fellers have been convicted or have admitted to anything, so it might all be moot.

One thing I'm not clear on:  was it against the rules of Major League Baseball to take what these guys are alleged to have taken, at the time they took it ?  Baseball jumped all over Pete Rose for gambling, they seem to have hoped this issue would just go away.

[K Frame]

Major league baseball tacitly had an anti-steroids policy in place.

Frankly, MLB AND the player's union deserves much of the blame for letting this situation get so far out of control. Both simply ignored, or winked at, the restrictions and at allegations that players were using.

MLB, in my opinion, did so because the huge home run totals of the mid 1990s were putting asses in the seats that hadn't been there since the strike and destroyed season. In short, it helped restore the game and they didn't want to interfere with that at that time.

[JohnBT]

"60      Babe Ruth                  1927

Anything leap out at you here ?"

Only that Babe Ruth out-homered entire teams. IIRC, one year he out-homered all but ONE team.

"Babe Ruth averaged 44 home runs per season from 1920 through 1934. Over the same number of at-bats, the average American League player hit fewer than six." - googled up at random

1920 - Ruth hit 54. In 2nd place was George Sisler with NINETEEN.

[grampster]

The Babe used beer and whiskey and tobacco as a performance enhancer.

I think professional sports is a mirror of the times.  We are a cruder, more self centered, oriented crowd today.  More games played, more variables.   Add in a little science and technology.

My point is that records in sports aren't a benchmark for anything.  No context.
The only value that records have are in the context of the times during which they are made.  Drop Barry Bonds or any super performer today into the context of the past, living there under the conditions, who knows what they may have accomplished?  Babe Ruth might have ate Barry Bonds for lunch.  Maybe not.  Rocky Marciano may have destroyed Ali.  I watched them both fight. I admire both men.  They were heroes of their own times.  that's good enough for me.
Mr. Bonds is interesting only for the accomplishments he makes in his time.  He's never been convicted of using steroids.  He's innocent till proven guilty in my book.