Author Topic: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge  (Read 27080 times)

HankB

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2016, 08:53:42 AM »
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The part about them both already serving a sentence, being set free, but now having to go back to prison because the govt decided they didn't serve enough time . . .
IANAL, but this sounds very fishy to me . . .

Quote
Dusty Hammond (grandson and nephew) testified that Steven told him to start a fire. He was 13 at the time and 24 when he testified (11 years later).
So this whole legal brouhaha took place more than a decade after the fact, and the case was based almost entirely on the testimony of a VERY shaky witness? Again, something sounds VERY fishy.

I'm not going to come down on anybody's side - but this entire matter sounds very fishy (OK, I know I said that already) and would seem to merit a thorough investigation by someone like John Stossel or some other investigative news reporter.
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Ben

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2016, 09:32:57 AM »
Everybody has fallen in line with the narrative being fed by the mainstream media and the goverment. "Just a bunch of right wing radicals" .

Well, they upset the schedule of a coyote and two pheasants. Way worse than shutting down a freeway or burning down businesses, or beating to death a truck driver over a jury verdict. They need to die.
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KD5NRH

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2016, 09:46:22 AM »
According to one FB "friend" they are "white terrorists".


Ben

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2016, 10:02:54 AM »
Also, interesting quote from the local sheriff (surprising, actually, considering it's rural Oregon):

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"These men came to Harney County claiming to be part of militia groups supporting local ranchers, when in reality these men had alternative motives to attempt to overthrow the county and federal government in hopes to spark a movement across the United States," Ward said in a statement.

"Overthrow the government" isn't the kind of rhetoric I would expect from LE that says they want to calm the situation down. I wouldn't be surprised if he's getting chewed out by the FBI for it.
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brimic

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2016, 10:11:25 AM »
I can't find a single moral reason to favor anything the feds have done on this one.
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roo_ster

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2016, 10:24:31 AM »


Paging Sam Francis...

Anarcho-tyranny
Francis argued that the problems of the managerial state extend to issues of crime and justice. In 1992, he introduced the word "anarcho-tyranny" into the paleocon vocabulary.[38] He once defined it this way: "we refuse to control real criminals (that's the anarchy) so we control the innocent (that's the tyranny)."[39]

In one of his last essays, he explained the concept:
Quote from: sam_francis
What we have in this country today, then, is both anarchy (the failure of the state to enforce the laws) and, at the same time, tyranny – the enforcement of laws by the state for oppressive purposes; the criminalization of the law-abiding and innocent through exorbitant taxation, bureaucratic regulation, the invasion of privacy, and the engineering of social institutions, such as the family and local schools; the imposition of thought control through "sensitivity training" and multiculturalist curricula, "hate crime" laws, gun-control laws that punish or disarm otherwise law-abiding citizens but have no impact on violent criminals who get guns illegally, and a vast labyrinth of other measures. In a word, anarcho-tyranny.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2016, 10:57:35 AM »
Has being white been officially classified an act of terrorism yet?
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BryanP

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2016, 01:03:18 PM »
For those interested in the Hammond case, Popehat has weighed in on it. As usual he supplies a nonpartisan, factual article.

https://popehat.com/2016/01/04/what-happened-in-the-hammond-sentencing-in-oregon-a-lawsplainer/
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T.O.M.

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2016, 01:39:23 PM »
For those interested in the Hammond case, Popehat has weighed in on it. As usual he supplies a nonpartisan, factual article.

https://popehat.com/2016/01/04/what-happened-in-the-hammond-sentencing-in-oregon-a-lawsplainer/

Thanks for this.  Answered my questions about what happened.
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Ben

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2016, 11:51:26 PM »
Well, they are still there and have now issued a wish list of supplies. Figured somebody who was there "for the duration" would have maybe brought more stuff to start. Kinda early to be low on supplies.

Plus - BOTH Miracle Whip AND mayo? This ain't a restaurant. Plus, deodorant? What, ya got a date? Plus, how are they running out of underwear already?

http://twitchy.com/2016/01/09/got-mayo-militia-members-in-oregon-issue-wish-list-of-supplies/
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Angel Eyes

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2016, 12:00:05 AM »
Plus - BOTH Miracle Whip AND mayo?

That's how you know the protesters are white.







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Ben

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2016, 12:10:19 AM »
That's how you know the protesters are white.







(Yeah, that's racist.  I don't care.)



The French vanilla creamer also indicates they're a little light in the loafers.

And let's not even get into the whole need for multiple brands of cigarettes. Is it some kind of hipster militia?
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2016, 01:00:05 AM »
well, clearly they had prepared some for their little adventure, because the only thing missing from that list is toilet paper.


I also notice that they didn't prepare for the fact that occupations of such nature are more boring than not. "gaming supplies" indeed.  ;/
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MillCreek

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2016, 10:03:41 AM »
Tampons and pads, but no condoms.  Hmm.
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charby

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2016, 10:13:39 AM »
Tampons and pads, but no condoms.  Hmm.

Then I think we need to send them a gambling kit for gaming supplies. :)
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Ben

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2016, 10:51:12 AM »
I should say as a caveat, that my making fun of these guys in no way reflects on my concern for the serious underlying issue that caused them to show up there. Government overreach and abuse of power are serious issues.

That said, this militia group is at this point likely not helping. Perhaps their heart is in the right place, but if you're going to do something like this, you need to plan it through, and that requires planning for PR and public perception of everything you do. Right now, they're beginning to look like the stereotypical liberal definition of "dumbass white guys running around in the woods playing army". You can't help but laugh at camoed out armed tough guys who've taken and occupied an objective, post watches, talk about killing or being killed for the cause, but hey, we really need that French vanilla creamer.  :laugh:

Without knowing all facts, my perception right now is that the government is actually doing something smart (regarding how they handle their side of this) by just letting the group sit there. That visitor center isn't scheduled to open back up until what, May? It's in the middle of nowhere, so really no one is affected right now. If I were one of the govt responders, I'd probably be saying, "Just leave them there and ignore them until they run out of supplies and get sick of camping out".

The fact that the group already released this list of needed supplies tells me they probably thought they'd get a lot more traction in the first days, that there would be some resolution, and that they really didn't plan on spending "possibly years" there. I think most of them figured it would all be wrapped up by now, one way or the other. By ignoring them, the govt takes away all their leverage. At some point, I assume some of these guys have to go back to their jobs, unless they're independently wealthy or unemployed or something.

Possibly BLM and OWS protesters were smarter by occupying and blocking areas that caused aggravation, which caused the authorities to address their demands. Not that I at all agree with the methods those groups used.

A positive suggestion, just so it doesn't look like I'm simply ragging on them and their cause, would be for them to go back to what they did before they occupied the building: Peaceful marches through town, or showing up at the visitor center when it opens with not guns, but signs and literature. Or better yet, do it in front of a regional BLM HQ, or the DOI building in DC where you get a lot more exposure.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2016, 12:04:05 PM »
Yeah, I fully support the basic grievance but good grief Gerty what a bunch of meatheads.
 
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Jocassee

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2016, 02:39:51 PM »
Yeah, I fully support the basic grievance but good grief Gerty what a bunch of meatheads.
 

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2016, 02:40:02 PM »
It's one thing to tell your supporters that they can bring food and supplies to such-and-such location, and even cite specific items you need. It's another thing to ask for specific condiments and brands. Go get an EBT card, already.  ;/
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Angel Eyes

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2016, 02:34:07 PM »
Apparently they have been receiving some donations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_sXnZxiJjGw

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RevDisk

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2016, 03:54:59 PM »
Yeah, I fully support the basic grievance but good grief Gerty what a bunch of meatheads.
 

Same. Not shocking that the fed govt is overreaching, that's what they do. Plenty of valid grievances and they have a right to protest, associate and petition for redress. But if they were wearing suits or even casual wear, they'd be making a hundred times their current impact. Care to imagine if they brought a lawn mower, some rakes and some clippers?

I usually call it "Hey, YOU, get off my side, please! You'd be much more helpful to X by joining the opposition!"

 
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KD5NRH

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #47 on: January 15, 2016, 05:19:02 PM »
But if they were wearing suits or even casual wear, they'd be making a hundred times their current impact.

This goes for pretty much any political action.  The times I've gone after an issue with the local city council, I found supporters who would at least wear nice jeans and a dress shirt, if not suits, to the meetings, and the difference in how they were treated and responded to compared to the folks that show up in business casual is very noticeable, to say nothing of the ones who show up in shorts and t shirts.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Protesters Take Over National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #48 on: January 15, 2016, 06:00:14 PM »
This goes for pretty much any political action.  The times I've gone after an issue with the local city council, I found supporters who would at least wear nice jeans and a dress shirt, if not suits, to the meetings, and the difference in how they were treated and responded to compared to the folks that show up in business casual is very noticeable, to say nothing of the ones who show up in shorts and t shirts.


 ???  So the hierarchy is shorts/t-shirts, khakis/dress shirt, jeans/dress shirt, suit?
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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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