Author Topic: Obamacare is "constitutional"  (Read 29485 times)

AmbulanceDriver

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #100 on: June 29, 2012, 05:48:30 PM »
So here's a quandary....

If the only way the law is legal is if it is a tax, the WH keeps adamantly stating it's not a tax.....

Does that mean the WH is saying the law is illegal???

(sorry, grasping at straws for *some* kind of silver lining here)
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birdman

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #101 on: June 29, 2012, 05:56:21 PM »
The silver lining is we will know for sure what the number of idiots is in the US...the popular vote total for Obama in November.

seeker_two

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #102 on: June 29, 2012, 06:23:48 PM »
Hot air says it doesn't apply:

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/06/28/say-doesnt-the-constitution-require-tax-bills-to-originate-in-the-house/

But it would be worth pursuing to another SCOTUS case....esp. if the makeup of the court changes by the time it reaches it....like Ginsberg retiring....or Roberts medically incapable due to a freak gavel accident....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/28/michael-savage-john-roberts-epilepsy-medication_n_1636092.html
« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 06:27:55 PM by seeker_two »
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Ron

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #103 on: June 30, 2012, 08:34:35 AM »
apropos for the times:

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. - CS Lewis -
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

slingshot

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #104 on: July 02, 2012, 04:36:33 PM »
That CS Lewis quote seems appropriate.  My Brother voted for Obama because he feels admently that the Republicans (like GW Bush) feel that they know better what is good for you and legislate accordingly.  The war in Iraq was a case he would reference as he believed we had no business fighting there until the country challenges our own shores with war.  I disagree but I understand his issues.

So now we have "Obama Care" ruling that the law is constitutional.  My vote will go for anyone who will vote to overturn the ruling this time.  It is coming out now that apparently Chief Justice Roberts was in fact on the repeal Obama Care side until just prior to the ruling when he shifted his vote to the more liberal interpretation of the law and came up with the authority to tax slant as justification.  Essentially he told the voters that if they don't want it, vote in a Congress that supports your view point.

I am beginning now to ask just what is Obama Care and what are the requirements?  I know that the majority of the people who support the legislation are either very liberal or are most apt to benefit from the law.  They want free health care and want somebody else to pay for it.  I noticed some YouTube videos that I am going to start listening to with a critical ear about just what is Obama Care.  There are some good things built into the law, but I tend to stand on the viewpoint that government should not be involved to this degree with a national health care law.  Legally the government could require states and insurance companies with the ammunition to set up their own groups.  But in my state, TN Care is a miserable failure with most (certainly many) will not accept the insurance for services rendered as they seem to have about a 25% pay ratio of the original bill.
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Ben

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #105 on: July 02, 2012, 07:50:13 PM »
Well, it appears the Romney team agrees with the White House that it is a penalty, not a tax.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/02/romney-others-still-honing-message-on-obamacare-tax-or-penalty/
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seeker_two

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #106 on: July 02, 2012, 10:06:39 PM »
Well, it appears the Romney team agrees with the White House that it is a penalty, not a tax.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/02/romney-others-still-honing-message-on-obamacare-tax-or-penalty/

It is a penalty....a penalty for electing Obama....
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longeyes

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #107 on: July 02, 2012, 10:22:40 PM »
"The law is an ass," sir, but, you see, it's their ass.  Stop looking for logic where there is only a lust for power. 
"Domari nolo."

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RocketMan

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #108 on: July 03, 2012, 06:24:04 PM »
Ah, the first sounds of capitulation from the GOP.  Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell chimes in on the "long odds" to repeal ObamaCare.
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longeyes

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #109 on: July 03, 2012, 07:09:38 PM »
McConnell: Lives of the Rich and Chinless.  He's an old man who needs some cookies, a cup of warm milk, and the brief attentions of loving grandchildren before bedtime.  The nation's in the anteroom of fascism, and the GOP is adjusting their bow ties.

We don't want to hear that Obamacare will be a bitch to repeal.  Point is, failure to repeal is not an option, Senator.

All of this is silly stuff.  Roberts didn't give a fig for the law or the Constitution; the Republicans, however, are going to nice it out.

It's hard to watch this without a barf bag.
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SADShooter

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #110 on: July 03, 2012, 10:25:45 PM »
Soon enough you won't have anything to barf into your recycled-material bag, so no worries.
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longeyes

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #111 on: July 03, 2012, 10:41:09 PM »
Ah, but I've stashing the Forbidden Bags for years, comrade.  :)
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

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Blakenzy

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #112 on: July 04, 2012, 09:11:27 AM »
 You don't want to be placed on the No-fly list as a health trrst, now do you?:police: Just shut up and pay up, it's the American way!  :rofl:

Coincidentaly, apparently, commie-librls don't seem to appreciate Obamacare much either...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYJ3QEJ-ugg

Topic discussed around the 5:30 mark.



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Waitone

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #113 on: July 04, 2012, 07:22:45 PM »
Breaking News!  This just in, Romney says the mandate is a tax.
http://hotair.com/archives/2012/07/04/romney-if-the-supreme-court-says-the-mandates-a-tax-then-its-a-tax/

Romney the Flounder acts true to form.  I want to know which position is his real position.  The article makes it sound like The Flounder's staff jumped out too soon and that The Flounder's real position is tax.

I am beginning to think the same cadre of incompetent boobs that gave us McCain are now busy at work giving us McCain Part Deux.

Hot Rumor Alert!  Political voices in some circles are saying its time for McConnell to proceed with the rest of his life's work.  Jim DeMint's name keeps popping up amongst TEA types as a successor.  Yeah, I know.  Another Flight of the Fancy.
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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #114 on: July 05, 2012, 08:40:41 AM »
McConnell: Lives of the Rich and Chinless.  He's an old man who needs some cookies, a cup of warm milk, and the brief attentions of loving grandchildren before bedtime.  The nation's in the anteroom of fascism, and the GOP is adjusting their bow ties.

More apt a description of McConnell has yet to be penned.
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De Selby

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #115 on: July 05, 2012, 07:39:56 PM »
The republicans don't really want to repeal Obamacare because it's such a gift to their constituents - massive health insurers and drug manufacturers.   Notice how quiet the corporations have been about this?
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Jocassee

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #116 on: July 05, 2012, 08:07:11 PM »
The republicans don't really want to repeal Obamacare because it's such a gift to their constituents - massive health insurers and drug manufacturers.   Notice how quiet the corporations have been about this?

Eh, I don't know who "owns" the above as constituents/donors, but IIRC they were both part of the writing process for the law.
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De Selby

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #117 on: July 05, 2012, 08:10:28 PM »
Eh, I don't know who "owns" the above as constituents/donors, but IIRC they were both part of the writing process for the law.

Yep.  All the outcry is about poor people, who aren't going to benefit from Obamacare.  The problem for them is price, and the bill does not address prices.

The real socialism here is welfare for corporations, as usual.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #118 on: July 05, 2012, 10:21:22 PM »
Yep.  All the outcry is about poor people, who aren't going to benefit from Obamacare.  The problem for them is price, and the bill does not address prices.

The real socialism here is welfare for corporations, as usual.

The welfare-state has always, in all its iterations, been backed by the upper class, because it has been perceived as beneficial to it in several ways:

1. Enabling the corporations to profit from the state through subsidies and contracts.

2. Enabling the corporations to protect themselves from small business by raising cost of entry.

3. Forcing the poor into the so-called "protestant work ethic" and "socialized lifestyle" - by reducing access to drugs, encouraging 'stable homes', etc. (that this hasn't work doesn't matter - we're talking about what the goal was, not whether it was achieved). THere's a reason why a lot of progressive writing isn't about giving the poor money, it's about controlling their lifestyle pro-actively.

Today, of course, this is somewhat (but only in part) mediated by the influence of the very extreme left, who thinks social control is for losers and we should just chuck money at the poor. On the other hand, many so-called right-wingers like this role of the modern state.

4. For decades, left-wing propaganda has been that we have a supposed 'compromise' in our society where the 'rich' give up some of their wealth in exchange of social stability (wherein extremists would supposedly rise to power if we didn't have a welfare state, propelled of course by the rage of the poor). Many wealthy individuals believe this.

[
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #119 on: July 06, 2012, 10:09:50 AM »
Quote
I am beginning to think the same cadre of incompetent boobs that gave us McCain are now busy at work giving us McCain Part Deux.


Well,


Duh!

 :facepalm:
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Ben

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #120 on: July 06, 2012, 10:30:34 AM »
Here's interesting fallout I didn't know about: Not only is Obamacare a tax, but it is repealing and restricting tax deductions for health care. I was looking at possibly switching to a Health Savings Account. Not so sure about that now:

Quote
3. The ObamaCare Flexible Spending Account Cap

The 24 million Americans who have Flexible Spending Accounts will face a new federally imposed $2,500 annual cap. These pre-tax accounts, which currently have no federal limit, are used to purchase everything from contact lenses to children’s braces. With the cost of braces being as high as $7,200, this tax provision will play an unwelcome role in everyday kitchen-table health care decisions.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/07/05/five-major-obamacare-taxes-that-will-hit-your-wallet-in-2013/#ixzz1zquXFUch

One of my coworkers is a raving Obama fan. He always comes to me to talk about investing. Last December when we had open enrollment for our health care at work, he was proudly telling me that based on advice form their investment consultant, he and his wife switched to a Health Savings Account plan. Good advice from his investment guy at the time, since he has a young family, but I wonder how he likes Obama now?

For a family of four like his, he'll never be able to build up any savings at $2500/yr.
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Marnoot

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #121 on: July 06, 2012, 10:35:25 AM »
It's possible there are new Health Savings Account (HSA) restrictions, but the "Flexible Spending Account cap" quoted is for FSAs, which are a different beast. I have an HSA, but have never had an FSA due to the fact that it's "use it or lose it account", if you don't have it all spent by the end of the year the money goes away.

Ben

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #122 on: July 06, 2012, 10:53:52 AM »
Ah, my error then. Apologies for the mixup.

Still, if you have a family member with a chronic problem, it sounds like the flexible account will not be the way to go since you'd likely be running through the dough pretty quick. Possibly the $2500 cap wouldn't have much of an effect on a healthy family going in for routine checkups.
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TommyGunn

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #123 on: July 06, 2012, 11:44:59 AM »
.....I am beginning to think the same cadre of incompetent boobs that gave us McCain are now busy at work giving us McCain Part Deux......


If we could get the MSM to concentrate on Obama's idiocities we woudln't be thinking this way...... :mad:
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Scout26

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Re: Obamacare is "constitutional"
« Reply #124 on: July 06, 2012, 12:35:05 PM »
HSA is for medical expenses and can be accumulated (rolled over) from year to year.

FSA can be used for medical and childcare expenses but are "use it or lose it" accounts.

Both are handy for setting aside money to pay for things like deductibles, out-of pocket medical expenses, the aforementioned braces and the like.


Maybe not so much anymore....Obamacare cracks down on those accounts. 
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