Author Topic: NNNOOOOOOOOOOooooo!!!!!!!! - Bacon Shortage Deemed Unavoidable  (Read 6742 times)

kgbsquirrel

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Re: Bacon Shortage Deemed Unavoidable
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2012, 07:40:57 PM »
Do you suppose some butchers might institute a bounty for feral pork, or is introducing such bacon sources into commercial food streams verboten?

Clarification: This is an actual question, and only partly in jest.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Bacon Shortage Deemed Unavoidable
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2012, 07:48:12 PM »
There is no shortage of threads about the bacon shortage.


Edited because funnier.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 08:08:06 PM by fistful »
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Hawkmoon

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Re: NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2012, 07:55:53 PM »
It's clearly a surreptitious Islamic plot ...
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lee n. field

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Re: NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2012, 08:19:47 PM »
It's clearly a surreptitious Islamic plot ...

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Re: NNNOOOOOOOOOOooooo!!!!!!!! - Bacon Shortage Deemed Unavoidable
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2012, 08:50:21 PM »
Merged threads and combined the old names.
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Azrael256

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Re: NNNOOOOOOOOOOooooo!!!!!!!! - Bacon Shortage Deemed Unavoidable
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2012, 09:02:09 PM »
Luckily, economists do not eat, so this will have no effect on inflation.

makattak

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Re: NNNOOOOOOOOOOooooo!!!!!!!! - Bacon Shortage Deemed Unavoidable
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2012, 10:38:51 PM »
Do you suppose some butchers might institute a bounty for feral pork, or is introducing such bacon sources into commercial food streams verboten?

Clarification: This is an actual question, and only partly in jest.

Wild "caught" mammals are specifically disallowed in commerce. (I specify mammals because fish, for some reason, are ok to sell when caught from the wild, while game mammals like deer are not.)
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RevDisk

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Re: NNNOOOOOOOOOOooooo!!!!!!!! - Bacon Shortage Deemed Unavoidable
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2012, 11:00:01 PM »

Between inflation, burning food and drought, no wonder why food prices are drastically increasing.
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mtnbkr

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Re: NNNOOOOOOOOOOooooo!!!!!!!! - Bacon Shortage Deemed Unavoidable
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2012, 11:01:56 PM »
(I specify mammals because fish, for some reason, are ok to sell when caught from the wild, while game mammals like deer are not.)

Probably because market hunting nearly did away with deer, turkey, etc.  Kind of like what's happening to fish now...  Don't forget what happened to buffalo out west either.

At the turn of the 20th century, it was rare to see whitetail deer in the Eastern US.  I'm reading a book right now that mentions how rare deer are at the time it was authored (early 20th century).  Nowadays, they're almost vermin.  Populations didn't recover until the late 20th century.

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Re: NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2012, 11:02:57 PM »
We'll burn our food in the gas tank. OPEC should eat their oil.

Problem is our corn is dependent on fossil fuels.  We use natural gas (and in some cases petroleum coke) to make the nitrogen compounds used in fertilizer.  I just did a bit of searching on the web and there are many sources saying that "oil based fertilizers" are a myth but I do know that nitrogen fertilizer costs go up when oil gets high.  Heck, the MiracleGro brand dropped their nitrogen content in half when oil prices went up.  So, there must be a link.  I'm just not sure, exactly, how it works, but there is a link.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm new at this game, but I do believe there is something fundamentally wrong with agriculture in the US.  We have created a goofball structure where corn is the safest crop because it can be used in so many things.  Corn being useful isn't a problem.  I think using it for ethanol is stupid, but I don't oppose ethanol subsides as a whole.  There are crops out there which could be used for cellulose ethanol production that don't require nitrogen fertilizer, or any fertilizer, but we don't have a good way of processing them because corn is cheap so we don't bother.  If we could drop the ethanol subsides from anything that isn't nitrogen neutral we might see some progress on cellulose ethanol which would free up some fossil fuels for, well, actual fuel.  Not fertilizer for stuff that we'll turn back into fuel which is just stupid.

The other major problem is that our government agencies like the USDA, state equivalents, and even public universities are only interested in telling people how to grow crops that are highly successful but barely profitable.  Following their recommendations is a quick path to wearing overalls, kicking the dirt, and muttering that there just ain't no profit in this farming business.  Software development wasn't much different.  If you follow the egghead advice you won't be profitable.  In software the eggheads kept telling us to split things up so that basic calculations could be spread across multiple machines. Never actually saw it implemented, but it certainly bloated the scale of the project out with no advantage what-so-ever, aside from somebody saying they followed current trade advise.  Never did like it.  I'd rather just write efficient code and boot anybody from the project that didn't understand Big-O notation.  It's cheaper. Likewise my father has a high disdain for any grow plan that involves growth regulating hormones.  If you want to make a plant grow slower just pull back the water.  Yes, it requires a team that can properly monitor plants but if you do it right you can retail an 8" mum for $1.25 a pop and make a profit when wholesalers that follow the tried-and-true plan charge $2.58 for them.

I don't believe we can grow corn any cheaper than we do in the US.  We're really good at it.  I also don't think it's a good use of our land. We're shoving most of it into animals that were never meant to eat corn.  But that won't be fixed until we find a better way and removing any government subsidy will probably spur innovation.

drewtam

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Re: NNNOOOOOOOOOOooooo!!!!!!!! - Bacon Shortage Deemed Unavoidable
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2012, 11:18:05 PM »
That was some heavy duty ramble.

My quip was more sarcasm that trade wars don't work out quit how people imagine. Unintended consequences and all that.
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Re: NNNOOOOOOOOOOooooo!!!!!!!! - Bacon Shortage Deemed Unavoidable
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2012, 11:35:13 PM »
That was some heavy duty ramble.

All I got from it is that GB is one of those hippie ethanol lovers.....
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Re: NNNOOOOOOOOOOooooo!!!!!!!! - Bacon Shortage Deemed Unavoidable
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2012, 08:52:48 AM »
Wild "caught" mammals are specifically disallowed in commerce. (I specify mammals because fish, for some reason, are ok to sell when caught from the wild, while game mammals like deer are not.)

While you can sell them, local fish markets can not buy them. You want locally caught fish, you better catch them yourself or know someone. Local fish markets are required by law to buy their fish from distributors.

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Re: NNNOOOOOOOOOOooooo!!!!!!!! - Bacon Shortage Deemed Unavoidable
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2012, 05:57:51 PM »
That was some heavy duty ramble.

Sorry.  It's something I think about all the time.  Food, oil/energy, agriculture, and the general ag market.  I forgot we mostly just fun around on here. :P

charby

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Re: NNNOOOOOOOOOOooooo!!!!!!!! - Bacon Shortage Deemed Unavoidable
« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2012, 06:08:08 PM »
Don't forget what happened to buffalo out west either.

Experts are thinking a cattle disease, brucellosis killed the herds off. Yes the hunters were hard on the herds but there were large herds in Canada also and I haven't read anything about those herds being hunted but they did disappear.
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Tallpine

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Re: NNNOOOOOOOOOOooooo!!!!!!!! - Bacon Shortage Deemed Unavoidable
« Reply #40 on: September 26, 2012, 06:12:14 PM »
Experts are thinking a cattle disease, brucellosis killed the herds off. Yes the hunters were hard on the herds but there were large herds in Canada also and I haven't read anything about those herds being hunted but they did disappear.

So Custer didn't really die for our sins  ???

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Re: NNNOOOOOOOOOOooooo!!!!!!!! - Bacon Shortage Deemed Unavoidable
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2012, 11:26:35 PM »
Why the shortage?  Are we using it to create poison tipped bullets?
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kgbsquirrel

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Re: NNNOOOOOOOOOOooooo!!!!!!!! - Bacon Shortage Deemed Unavoidable
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2012, 11:53:46 PM »
Porcine based explosives? Think of it as killing those unwashed heathens with instant damnation!   :angel:


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drewtam

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Re: NNNOOOOOOOOOOooooo!!!!!!!! - Bacon Shortage Deemed Unavoidable
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2012, 07:33:14 AM »
Why the shortage?  Are we using it to create poison tipped bullets?

Not sure if serious question or just set up for the joke.

I'll summarize anyway...

US drought this year + Russian drought last year + US Ethanol = worldwide grain shortage

Worldwide grain shortage + depressed market = higher feed prices for live stock + smaller margin for meat

High feed prices for livestock + small margin for meat = don't feed the animal all winter, slaughter now for best profit

Slaughter now for best profit = even lower meat prices in the short run (this fall and winter) but live stock shortage next year.
Lean hog futures has dropped to $74 for December 2012, but is at $96 for June & July next year.
Live cattle has a similar trend but doesn't seem as dramatic.
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RevDisk

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Re: NNNOOOOOOOOOOooooo!!!!!!!! - Bacon Shortage Deemed Unavoidable
« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2012, 04:50:39 PM »
Why the shortage?  Are we using it to create poison tipped bullets?

Drought. Less corn per acre when it's too hot and/or not enough water. Not a lot can be done about that. Even drought resistant corn only improves the yield. Can't grow crops without water, it's just one of those things. And there is only so much water you can suck out of the ground, or transport by pipe. This is really going to bite us in the tail, btw. I know we all scorn at environmentalists, but vast aquifer depletion is not good in the long run.

Vast oversimplification?

There has been a couple droughts, primarily in the US and EU, of staple grains. Basically, that makes everything cost more. Animals and humans eat those grains. Animals eat a lot of grain to make meat. So a mild bump in grain means very big bumps in meat costs.

Cattle can eat different things than pigs. The stuff that pigs eat is very very expensive, and would cost more than what they think they can sell the meat for later. So, kill pigs now and sell them now. Less feed costs. But there will be shortages later.

Also, by law, we turn feed into ethanol that we put in cars. This is partially to reduce our oil imports and partially because American Corn Growers Association can buy a lot of politicians. Enough politicians to not suspend ethanol for next year. This year's ethanol production is already done. Suspend ethanol mandates, and demand for feed drops. That drops feed prices. That drops food prices across the board. But less profits for feed growers.

There's two ways to make money. Make a lot of stuff and make your money on volume, or make not so much stuff and get paid on scarcity. The second one is hard to pull off in a truly free market, unless it's scarce for a very good reason and alternatives are not cost efficient. But when you're buying politicians, it becomes trivial if you have a fairly decent lobbyist group.
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