Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: gunsmith on October 28, 2012, 04:06:16 AM
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Last week I asked what books everyone should read and got some real good ideas for books to buy before the coming EMP apocalypse turns us all back into book readers like when we were kids.
This week my question is what guns should everyone own?
Off the top of my head, I'd say a quality bolt gun in a common caliber, a semi in possibly the same caliber.
A 1911 .45acp of some kind, a shotgun maybe an 870?
Beside your other semi rifle an AR15 and or AR10
& as many milsurps as you can buy for trade during the EMP apocalypse coming soon - in which I'm totally unprepared for.
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I'd say your list depends on just why you own guns.
These are what I'd consider the Bare Minimum:
If you are a prepper?
1) A semi-auto, magazine fed rifle, such as an AK-47, AR-15, M1A, Mini-14, etc,
2) A concealable pistol of your choice
3) OPTIONAL: A good bolt action rifle in .223 or .308.
Preferably 2 of each (one is none, 2 is one).
If you are a hunter?
1) A bolt or lever action in a decent big game cartridge (.30-30, .308, .30-06, etc).
2) A .22lr, preferably a rifle of some kind
3) 12 gauge shotgun, preferably pump action
With those three you can take any game animal without much trouble, and the pump gun can double for HD.
Just interested in self-defense?
1) a concealable pistol
2) a long gun of some kind, such as a shotgun, a pistol-caliber carbine in the same caliber as your carry gun, or a semi-auto such as an AR-15, Mini-14, M1A, etc.
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I'd say your list depends on just why you own guns.
These are what I'd consider the Bare Minimum:
If you are a prepper?
If you are a hunter?
Just interested in self-defense?
Sure! Stuff us into pigeon holes, why don't you!
Next thing we know, you will be relegating the .45 v. 9mm debate to some arbitrarily limited endeavor, too.
Leaving behind "essential", the argument could be advanced that a rifle in .22LR might be the most versatile.
stay safe.
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FAL
870
1911
10/22
Optional:
AR.
There, 4+1 and you cover all 3 categories :)
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870
10-22
GP-100
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I need a 10/22. Hrm.
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I wont say specific models, different strokes for different folks and all that.
But a good side arm, preferably concealable. A good bolt gun, preferably in a common caliber that is widely available. And a good semi auto rifle for the zombie hordes. Preferably in the same caliber as the bolt gun.
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By asking for a list of "essential" guns, you get a significant helping of personal preference as well. ;)
But I'll play:
10/22
Glock 19 gen 4
870
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Handguns: j-frame S&W .38, a Glock 19, and a stout S&W stainless revolver, 4-6 inch, in .357 or .44M
Rimfires: A reliable repeating scoped rifle (10/22, Henry or Marlin lever, or a CZ-45x). J or K frame .22 revolver
Shotguns: Remington 870 12g w/ 18.5" Rifle sighted slug barrel + 26" Rem-Choke barrel. Repeat as necessary.
Liberty defense: M4gery and/or some .30 cal rifle, either FAL or M1A or Garand.
Hunting: Scoped turnbolt, chambered in either .30-'06, or .308, depending on your choice of rifles above.
A person (or family) is well-equipped to face the uncertainties of life with such a battery. Well, at least those which require the use or threat of force.
Good, but hard to justify: Pistol caliber carbines, such as Marlin 1894, Beretta Storm, Keltec Sub2000.
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Absolute bare minimum?
Fighting Carbine/Rifle
Pistol
Choose what models best suit you.
What do I stock?
Fighting Carbine (5.56)
DMR (7.62)
AMR (BMG)
Pistol (9mm)
Foraging Shotgun (12g)
Foraging Rifle (.22)
This doesn't count my antiques and relics.
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As has been said above, you'll get a boatload of answers based on opinion and what people like / do that defines "essential". For me, if I looked at it as "minimal" collection for any contingency, it would be:
Rifle (doesn't matter what kind - a bolt gun can be used for defense, an M1A can shoot a deer)
Pistol
Shotgun
.22 rifle
Other than the .22, I would just do some common caliber, and make the shotgun a pump, possibly like the Mossberg 500 combo with the 18" and 28" barrels.
If it was me personally and forced to pare down what I already own to my "essentials":
M1A
Rem 788
1911
Mossberg 500 combo
Ruger 10/22
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I assume you have read One Second After by William Forstchen. I will use that book as sort of my model for firearm choices.
Needs are true SHTF stuff... both foraging/hunting and defensive. The problem is consolidating the list down to a manageable number. I'll give it a try. There won't be a lot of plinking going on at this point. It is about life and death. There would be hunting and foraging going on, but the real test is against a organized force wanting to take what you have. Strength will be in numbers both offensively and defensively.
AR Platform rifle or Mini 14 Rifle. [One per person with a backup at a rate of 1/3 (or one rifle per 3 rifles).] Primarily for self defense, but could be used for hunting. You will need a sufficient number of magazines.
22LR or 22WMR for small game hunting and possibly deer sized game hunting. I lean toward a 22 WMR rifle assuming you have a good supply of ammo. Otherwise a 22 rifle for each person. If you have multiple family membes, probably 22 rifles for each and at least one 22 Mag rifle for more serious pursuits.
9mm or 40 S&W handgun for each person at same rate as the rifle (1 per person + backups). Used pretty much for self defense. Holsters for each.
12 ga pump shotguns (one per person) for primarily defensive purposes with modest hunting especially for folks that can's shoot well. Slings fitted for each.
One traditional hunting type rifle in a center fire caliber sufficient for deer and black bear.
I would have a few revolvers with holsters. Choose your favorite calibers with those. But clearly being competent with a hunting revolver transfers to longer range defensive needs if you don't have a rifle with you. I would carry a revolver day to day and move to semi-auto's for more combat like situations.
This assumes you are working from a "stable" base camp or house where the firearms can be stored and chosen as the need develops.
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I wouldn't presume to tell anyone else what they should have, but ...
If I were starting over today, I would seriously consider skipping everything else (like .357) and going with a Ruger Blackhawk in .44 magnum and a Marlin 1894 in .44 magnum.
But it would also be nice to have some .22 RF, so add a Single Six and a Marlin 39 for fun and practice, and small game/pests.
You will say "but what about a bolt rifle and a shotgun and a snubbie and a battle rifle" but for my lifestyle the above 22/44 pairs would take care of just about everything.
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Is there a particular "must have" 22LR rifle?
I was thinking bolt action over semi auto for TEOTWAWKI.
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Is there a particular "must have" 22LR rifle?
Ruger 10/22
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For a Prepper, a Taurus Judge.
For a hunter, a Taurus Judge.
For self defense, a Taurus Judge.
It does everything!
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Is there a particular "must have" 22LR rifle?
I was thinking bolt action over semi auto for TEOTWAWKI.
10/22, out of the box it's okay, a little work and it's as accurate as you will ever need unless you are match shooting. And when shooting at food, a quick follow up shot may be the differene between hungry and not.
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I like the Marlin Model 60 with the underbarrel tubular magazine if going semi-auto. You don't have to worry about loosing mags. I also like the Marlin 39A or Winchester 9422.
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I like the Marlin Model 60 with the underbarrel tubular magazine if going semi-auto. You don't have to worry about loosing mags. I also like the Marlin 39A or Winchester 9422.
This. I much prefer my Model 60 to every stock 10/22 I've held.
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At least this isn't a "what one gun (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4128425&postcount=29)" thread.
Define your needs, delineate the limits of the possible, work within your constraints.
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I think I'm covered. =D =D But, but, I want more!!!!
If it is got to be cheap, reliable and useful then a 12ga pump must be had by all. Luckily I have 3 and an auto loader. Kill anything from tweety bird to bear, good SD choice, common ammo. Only downsides aare limited range, limited ammo capacity, and heavy ammo if you are carrying it far.
Not going to be everyone's cup of tea or budget, but I like combo guns courtesy of my dad. You can get a lot accomplished in one hunting trip with a 12x12x.30-06 drilling. I know his scope QDs, but I'm pretty sure he's wingshot with it mounted, expensive 1-7x . Dropped a turkey at 275 yards with the rifle, so it shoots well enough.
I have my civil defense force kit too, a bunch of K-31s. Cheap, simple, accurate, hard-hitting. And I'm the only one in the county with ammo, a positive if you like control.
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I saw a lot of 1911 recommendations above. In my experience, 1911s are finicky and buggy unless you really know what you are doing. I think would rather recommend a Glock or XD in .45acp instead. You could nearly carry two of either for the same weight. Thinking simple, my S&W 625 in .45 might be a better alternative.
For "one" 22 rifle, think a tube fed rifle would be best also. Keep it simple with few extra parts/accessories to carry outside of ammo. I think that especially applies for "spare" guns that are not your primary defensive gun. You only have so many pockets.
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I saw a lot of 1911 recommendations above. In my experience, 1911s are finicky and buggy unless you really know what you are doing. I think would rather recommend a Glock or XD in .45acp instead. You could nearly carry two of either for the same weight. Thinking simple, my S&W 625 in .45 might be a better alternative.
For "one" 22 rifle, think a tube fed rifle would be best also. Keep it simple with few extra parts/accessories to carry outside of ammo. I think that especially applies for "spare" guns that are not your primary defensive gun. You only have so many pockets.
I'd pack either my G21 45 or my USP45, not my 1911.
As for tube fed 22 or magazine fed 10/22...I'd still take the 10/22, namely because it's the most popular 22 rifle, and there are zillions of them so you are likely to encounter other with the same rifles and parts. Also, it has by far the largest parts support.
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Pump shotgun? When I switched from a pump to a semi auto shotgun as my main hunting shotgun in 1997, I'll never go back. Go shoot a Benelli sometime and you will know what I mean. My Benelli SBE can cycle though a magazine faster than any pump, this has been tested time and time again against with a shot timer.
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At least this isn't a "what one gun (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4128425&postcount=29)" thread.
Define your needs, delineate the limits of the possible, work within your constraints.
Before Kim Du Toit took down his "The Front Page" blog he used to run a sort-of annual "contest" asking readers to explain what one modern rifle and what one modern pistol they would take, along with how much of what ammo, to cross the USA on foot like the early settlers did. IIRC he picked St. Jo as the starting point and ended in San Francisco. That was a discussion with some heat behind it!
stay safe.
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Pump shotgun? When I switched from a pump to a semi auto shotgun as my main hunting shotgun in 1997, I'll never go back. Go shoot a Benelli sometime and you will know what I mean. My Benelli SBE can cycle though a magazine faster than any pump, this has been tested time and time again against with a shot timer.
Pumps are cheaper and cycle ANYTHING. Semi-autos not so much.
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Essential?
Why you need gun, civilian? You not trust dear Government for safety?
Obamney, he protect us loooong time. Kill terror. You hand over weapon, get food stamp reward.
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Pumps are cheaper and cycle ANYTHING. Semi-autos not so much.
I've actually had more problems with my pump shotguns vs the auto. As long as I keep my Benelli lubricated it will cycle the lightest trap loads.
Problems I have had with Mossberg the cartridge stop and the cartridge interupter are made of really soft steel and eventually will bend out spec and shells won't load from the magazine.
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I've got multiple options for multiple calibers. For /22 rf I've got a revolver and a semi-auto pistol, for .22 rf rifle I've got semi-auto, pump and lever action.
Same trick with center fire. .357 mag carbine and .357 mag revolver. Both capable of .357 mag and .38 special loads.
Shotguns covered with pump, double barrel and single barrel in the same gauge.
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Glock 17, 19 or 34 (EDC open carry, no excuses, gun all the time)
AR-15 or M14 variant of your choice (hunting and defensive rifle)
Mossberg 590 12 ga (small game weapon, also serviceable as fighting arm inside of 100 yards)
10/22 or .22 rifle of choice (small game weapon)
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Well, I said pump because you can get a good one for $100 used if you look; i.e. my Ithaca 37 police gun. My Saiga may convert me, but if you are talking for everyone, simpler is better. For ease of use most people are probably better off with a single shot Stevens.
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when shooting at food, a quick follow up shot may be the differene between hungry and not.
Or moving to Beverly Hills or not.
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Problems I have had with Mossberg the cartridge stop and the cartridge interupter are made of really soft steel and eventually will bend out spec and shells won't load from the magazine.
Well there's your problem. :P
In any case, I wasn't talking about just trap loads, but also specialty shells as well. Flares, for instance.
Also, when you only have 8 rounds (at most, for most HD/tactical setups), speed isn't quite as important as accuracy. Few people can transition from one target to the next fast enough to utilize the extra speed a semi-auto gives you.
There are only two big advantages that a semi-auto really has over a pump gun. The first is less recoil, and the second is the ability to more or less operate with one hand, leaving the other free to hold a flashlight or whatever. The second can be mitigated with a mounted flashlight, and the first depends on the shooter.
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I don't have a shotgun yet; was wondering about the pump vs. autoloader thing. (looks like there's still not consensus)
To the original question, I think a .22LR rifle should be really high on the list, and next is maybe a .357 Magnum revolver (loaded with .38 Specials most of the time.) Then a shotgun, and some kind of battle rifle or "assault rifle". A Glock 19 or a BHP is pretty far down the list; I plan on avoiding situations where I need an auto pistol. (I do have a couple, and lots of 20 and 30 round mags for the BHP)
If the only gun you have is a tube-magazine .22, you're not in not in bad shape.
This is not the order in which I bought guns.
Good, but hard to justify: Pistol caliber carbines, such as Marlin 1894, Beretta Storm, Keltec Sub2000.
Marlin 1894C is not hard to justify at all. I live in a small city. A walnut-n-blue lever gun looks nonthreatening (so I don't get shot on sight by the police), and has a longer range than any shot I could possibly take from my property. It also has maybe 80% or more of the power of a .30-30 and twice the capacity -- and you can top it off without taking it out of the fight.
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Every gun I own is absolutely essential. Also some other ones I still need to buy.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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Good, but hard to justify: Pistol caliber carbines, such as Marlin 1894, Beretta Storm, Keltec Sub2000.
Left off my favorite carbine (and probably my favorite in my collection): Kriss Vector :)
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I don't buy the "non threatening" argument. While a lever gun will look more "hunting" rifle in your backseat or hanging in your truck gun rack, if things are so sideways you're openly displaying a rifle then I don't buy the police wouldn't see you as more/less threat depending on your firearm type.
I like the lever gun for its ease of use, load one shoot one ability, and common caliber a that are all over the place. Light handy and shooting modern ammo quite deadly. Also the scabbard ready design means a lever gun can be slid into a lot of places many other rifles don't fit.
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Levergun has the same utility as a tube-fed shotgun, IMO.
Low capacity, more powerful than a handgun. Good, but not as great as a semiauto magazine fed centerfire combat rifle.
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Shotgun may have more utility if you consider hunting loads, but lever gun has lighter ammo.
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We suck. 2 pages in and no one has said an M-2. Believe me, if I had the money it'd be essential. :rofl:
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I don't buy the "non threatening" argument. While a lever gun will look more "hunting" rifle in your backseat or hanging in your truck gun rack, if things are so sideways you're openly displaying a rifle then I don't buy the police wouldn't see you as more/less threat depending on your firearm type.
Wow. The changes in less than 30 years. When I was growing up, there was ALWAYS a rifle or two in the back window of the truck - of nearly every truck you saw.
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Essential:
M134 minigun
Can be used for hunting, self defense, logging, etc.
Difficult to carry, and required ammo quantities are heavy, but just like "racking the slide on a shotgun will scare burglars" (j/k) powering up minigun barrel motor and associated whir should have significant deterrent effects :)
Mk19
"see that guy? F$&@ him and anyone near him"...'nough said.
Phased plasma rifle in the 40W range.
Because what good are essential guns if you can't take out a terminator?
And finally
M198 155mm cannon.
You did say "guns" not "firearms" :)
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If you are going for the mini-gun, you might want to lay in a couple hundred thousand primers and a lot of powder for reloading.
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If you are going for the mini-gun, you might want to lay in a couple hundred thousand primers and a lot of powder for reloading.
I've got that part already :angel:
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Wow. The changes in less than 30 years. When I was growing up, there was ALWAYS a rifle or two in the back window of the truck - of nearly every truck you saw.
Still depends upon the state and sometimes even to county or township level.
When I go to Wyoming, it is nothing for me to see a rifle or shotgun uncased in the vehicle.
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Wow. The changes in less than 30 years. When I was growing up, there was ALWAYS a rifle or two in the back window of the truck - of nearly every truck you saw.
Even here in Texas its a rare sight anymore unless you're out a good ways from the cities.
Oh, and my list.
I say, it depends, first, on which group you're in. These would be my top picks if I was just waving a magic wand to equip someone.
"shooter". Someone with at least some solid training or .mil experience.
DA sidearm. I'd never feel undergunned with a G17. Yes, I know, I'm a 1911 fanboi but when it boils down to reliability, ease of use, and capacity for combat I'd want the G17.
In a really ideal situation I'd have a can for said G17 as well.
AR-15/M4gery. Carbine to mid-length, not a varmint gun.
Scoped bolt gun in an everyday caliber ('06, .308 would be my top picks). Lightweight model of some kind.
.22lr rifle with a can if at all possible.
For the non shooter? (Like say a hunter or someone who shoots a little but has had no real "formal" training)
G17 or .357 wheel gun(s)
.22lr semi auto. 10/22 is a good choice, my only complaint is mine gets finicky when dirty and running cheap ammo.
.30-30 lever gun (Marlin 336 with scope)
Rem 870 pump gun. HD model with extra hunting barrel.
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I don't buy the "non threatening" argument. While a lever gun will look more "hunting" rifle in your backseat or hanging in your truck gun rack, if things are so sideways you're openly displaying a rifle then I don't buy the police wouldn't see you as more/less threat depending on your firearm type.
I like the lever gun for its ease of use, load one shoot one ability, and common caliber a that are all over the place. Light handy and shooting modern ammo quite deadly. Also the scabbard ready design means a lever gun can be slid into a lot of places many other rifles don't fit.
That's when you need one of them long "doc holliday" dusters or a long aussie outback coat ;)
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That's when you need one of them long "doc holliday" dusters or a long aussie outback coat ;)
I'm saving my duster for the zombpocolypse (Tm)
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I'm saving my duster for the zombpocolypse (Tm)
"suit" yourself :P
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Phased plasma rifle in the 40W range.
Because what good are essential guns if you can't take out a terminator?
EMP Fail!
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Even here in Texas its a rare sight anymore unless you're out a good ways from the cities.
Yeah; regardless of the legality, if you're in an area that's even a little bit built up it becomes a thief magnet. =(
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I realize it is not as common as 30/30, but would the 308 Marlin or a larger lever gun caliber like 45/70 be better? I guess 30/30 might be enough power with overall lighter ammo to carry.
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I realize it is not as common as 30/30, but would the 308 Marlin or a larger lever gun caliber like 45/70 be better? I guess 30/30 might be enough power with overall lighter ammo to carry.
I'd go the other way with a .357 lever rifle.
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I'd go the other way with a .357 lever rifle.
Only reason I have .3030 on my list and not the .357 is price difference. .357's are double or more and hard to come by, but every chain sells the Marlin in .3030 for under $350 every holiday on sale.
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Only reason I have .3030 on my list and not the .357 is price difference. .357's are double or more and hard to come by, but every chain sells the Marlin in .3030 for under $350 every holiday on sale.
Yeah, except I never see new ones that cheap anymore (~$450) and the new Marlingtons are mostly junk.
Still, you can buy a lot of 30-30 ammo for about $400 ;)
Now, if Ruger would just make a Blackhawk in 30-30 >:D
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Yeah, except I never see new ones that cheap anymore (~$450) and the new Marlingtons are mostly junk.
Still, you can buy a lot of 30-30 ammo for about $400 ;)
Now, if Ruger would just make a Blackhawk in 30-30 >:D
http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_126414_-1?N=39632024+4294958181
http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_392403_-1?N=39632024+4294958181
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http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_126414_-1?N=39632024+4294958181
http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_392403_-1?N=39632024+4294958181
Mills Farm and Fleet has them for $389
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Well, I never see them around here for those prices =(
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Well, I never see them around here for those prices =(
Probably a supply and demand issue. Utilitarian and useful around your hood plus lower demand.
If someone is willing to spend the money, a pistol caliber would be the way to go. But for the money involved you might as well go AR, unless the pistol caliber lever gun is a better utilitarian choice for that person, and is probably a better choice over .3030.
Tactical lever gunz!!!
http://youtu.be/G5ghhN9WZP0