United Airlines initiates self-immolation

[K Frame]

I guess a flood of social media outrage, a barrage of negative major media coverage, and more than a billion in stock value loss finally got the point across that half-axed apologies ain't gonna cut it.

https://hub.united.com/united-express-3411-statement-oscar-munoz-2355968629.html?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral

Brad

What he actually meant...

Dear Union Parasites,

The racists bastards in the outside world aren't accepting my bloviation for personally ordering Companyt Goon Whitey McWhiterson to drag Ching Chong Charlie Chan's ass off the plane.

In fact they're punishing the company through lower stock prices, which is hurting your 401K and company pension tremendously.

You'll be relieved to know, however, that no matter what happens I'll still be getting my $6 million annual salary.

To address this ongoing fiasco, I have:

1. Ordered the company spokesman to cry on TV when talking about this incident. If he can't or won't, he'll be getting a visit from Whitey McWhiterson.

2. Forbidden Ching Chong Charlie Chan from ever flying United again, because we're going to stick to our claim that he was combative and belligerent BEFORE people started recording on their cell phones.

3. Ordered installation of cell phone scramblers on all aircraft that will also scramble video capture to this sort of thing never happens again.

4. Ordered a smear campaign claiming the doctor is actually a Oxy sniffing rump ranger, and

5. Ordered my 4th martini, because I'm tired of talking about this, because all your faces are stupid.

[Fly320s]

Don't actually know, but I'm going to guess that it takes a LOT more than 4-5 seats. Perhaps Fly320 can give real numbers?

No idea.  I don't dabble in Voo-Doo.   If you really want to know, all the information is available.  For a rough estimate, divide the yearly profit by the number of passengers.  If you want to go deeper down that rabbit hole, you'll get into RASMs, CASMs, and other esoteric airline terms.

A lack of planning on your part does not make an emergency on my part.
Proper planning prevents piss poor performance.

That is funny.  It really is.

You mean planned out like selling tickets up to a year in advance? Or planning the aircraft routing weeks in advance so that the right size plane is in the right city at the right time?  And making sure all those aircraft get the proper inspections at the proper time, even if that means flying empty planes to maintenance bases?  Or giving flight crews their schedules a month in advance? Or do you mean the planning that is in place so when a plane breaks down there is a way to get it fixed and flying again, even if it means bringing a crew in from another city?  Or maybe you mean the planning that is in place so when a flight is overbooked, there is a plan to decide who gets bumped?  I guess you could mean the plan that is in place so when a big storm shuts down a major airport for two days there is a plan to get the operation restarted.

Do you have any idea much freaking planning is already in place so the average dumbass can take a flight across the country safely and cheaply?

Yeah, I fly planes, but the hands-on flying is a small part of it.  That is the fun part, but most of the work is done by automation these days.  What I really do is plan ahead for the usual "what ifs."  While the once-a-year flier is sitting in the back bitching that his TV isn't working, I'm planning where to go and what to do when Boston Logan closes, or when POTUS has the airspace shut down and I'm running low on fuel.  Or maybe I'm planning to get the plane fixed on arrival so I can help keep the operation running smoothly.

Have you noticed the safety record of airlines over the last 30 years?  You can thank planning.

Oh, but if we have one flight get delayed or overbooked it is the f*cking end of times!! 

[K Frame]

OMG this is incredible!

"In March, United's Munoz was honored at the annual PRWeek U.S. awards ceremony in New York, where he was named the group's U.S.-based communicator of the year."

 


I wonder if PRWeek is sending out a team to reclaim his award? 

[grampster]

This situation wasn't a result of bad planning.  It was bad decision making.  A wise CEO of an airline would convince his Board that in view of the profits being mad and the good life all are experiencing, when the odd problem such as United just had, we can solve it.  So.  We are going to quit playing games trying to get volunteers by trying to get the lowest bidder.  We are going to offer 2 times the cost of the ticket, in cash.  We will provide at least 2 free flights with first class upgrades for any future domestic flights.  VIP treatment, whatever that might entail, until the next available flight to the destination as well as having their luggage met at the destination of this flight and safely stored till arrival.  We'll need security to handle the stampede.

[freakazoid]

Or planning the aircraft routing weeks in advance so that the right size plane is in the right city at the right time? We've have commercial flying for how long now? I would think that's pretty much set in stone. And making sure all those aircraft get the proper inspections at the proper time, even if that means flying empty planes to maintenance bases? I would really hope that regular inspections and maintenance is pretty routine. Or giving flight crews their schedules a month in advance? Kind of goes along with the first one. Or do you mean the planning that is in place so when a plane breaks down there is a way to get it fixed and flying again, even if it means bringing a crew in from another city? I would also hope that that has gotten to be a pretty routine. Certainly there are pre-planned responses to this type of thing. Or maybe you mean the planning that is in place so when a flight is overbooked, there is a plan to decide who gets bumped? Besides that that shouldn't actually happen? Besides that, there is the whole offering refunds, cash, tickets, etc., etc. which is already in place.  I guess you could mean the plan that is in place so when a big storm shuts down a major airport for two days there is a plan to get the operation restarted. No, don't know why you think I might be talking about that.

Do you have any idea much freaking planning is already in place so the average dumbass can take a flight across the country safely and cheaply?

Yeah, I fly planes, but the hands-on flying is a small part of it.  That is the fun part, but most of the work is done by automation these days.  What I really do is plan ahead for the usual "what ifs."  While the once-a-year flier is sitting in the back bitching that his TV isn't working, I'm planning where to go and what to do when Boston Logan closes, or when POTUS has the airspace shut down and I'm running low on fuel.  Or maybe I'm planning to get the plane fixed on arrival so I can help keep the operation running smoothly.

Have you noticed the safety record of airlines over the last 30 years?  You can thank planning.

Oh, but if we have one flight get delayed or overbooked it is the f*cking end of times!! 

Being delayed is one thing. I've been on a few delayed flights. Being overbooked shouldn't happen to begin with.
No, what I am talking about is the piss poor planning that started this mess, which then they turned into an emergency on the person who purchased a ticket.

Are you double spacing after a period? Geezer! And even after a question mark. lol

[zxcvbob]

This situation wasn't a result of bad planning.  It was bad decision making.  A wise CEO of an airline would convince his Board that in view of the profits being mad and the good life all are experiencing, when the odd problem such as United just had, we can solve it.  So.  We are going to quit playing games trying to get volunteers by trying to get the lowest bidder.  We are going to offer 2 times the cost of the ticket, in cash.  We will provide at least 2 free flights with first class upgrades for any future domestic flights.  VIP treatment, whatever that might entail, until the next available flight to the destination as well as having their luggage met at the destination of this flight and safely stored till arrival.  We'll need security to handle the stampede.

They wouldn't have to go that far.  Refund the ticket in cash or $500 cash whichever is more, put up at cheap-decent motel for the night, priority boarding on the next flight to that destination, and luggage met at destination.  I'd jump at that unless I just absolutely needed to be at my destination the next morning.

The key is the cash refund rather than some useless voucher.

[KD5NRH]

A lack of planning on your part does not make an emergency on my part.

Exactly; at what point did the totally automated self-fly system on the waiting plane go out and alert them that it would be needing a crew for its scheduled flight?  Oh, wait; the plane needed a crew in the right place from the moment the flight was scheduled.

You mean planned out like selling tickets up to a year in advance? Or planning the aircraft routing weeks in advance so that the right size plane is in the right city at the right time?  And making sure all those aircraft get the proper inspections at the proper time, even if that means flying empty planes to maintenance bases?

So how does all that expert planning end up with the crew in the wrong state the day before?

[makattak]

Exactly; at what point did the totally automated self-fly system on the waiting plane go out and alert them that it would be needing a crew for its scheduled flight?  Oh, wait; the plane needed a crew in the right place from the moment the flight was scheduled.

So how does all that expert planning end up with the crew in the wrong state the day before?

Err... exigences don't happen? The previous flight crew (or a significant portion) all got sick? Had a death in the family?

I'm of the opinion that airlines are perfectly justified overbooking and even kicking people off flights. They better have a really good reason for it and "we didn't want to pay enough to induce people to get off" when it's trying to deal with its own emergencies doesn't cut it. Especially AFTER people had already been seated. I'm aware the airlines don't count that as "boarding" but EVERY SANE PERSON DOES. If you're going to actually pull people off of a flight they've gotten onto, you better make sure it's done willingly. (Note, this isn't about rights, this is about PR and treating your customers right.)

They are perfectly within their rights, but juuuuuuuust missed "best practices" on this one.

[KD5NRH]

Err... exigences don't happen? The previous flight crew (or a significant portion) all got sick? Had a death in the family?

Miraculously between the time people were allowed to board this flight and the time it left the gate?

I suspect their consolation prizes would have met with more acceptance had they been offered outside before anyone got their carryons tucked away and settled into their seats.

The racists bastards in the outside world aren't accepting my bloviation for personally ordering Companyt Goon Whitey McWhiterson to drag Ching Chong Charlie Chan's ass off the plane.

Just seems way too convenient that it was a small Asian guy rather than a 6'6" bodybuilder/biker that they "randomly" chose to remove involuntarily.  Almost wish it had turned out to be Ching Chong Jackie Chan.

[Fly320s]

Being overbooked shouldn't happen to begin with.

I agree. It is a stupid idea.  It should have been banned years ago.

Are you double spacing after a period? Geezer! And even after a question mark. lol

I identify as old school.   Besides, these new fangled computers will never catch on.

[wmenorr67]

Exactly; at what point did the totally automated self-fly system on the waiting plane go out and alert them that it would be needing a crew for its scheduled flight?  Oh, wait; the plane needed a crew in the right place from the moment the flight was scheduled.

So how does all that expert planning end up with the crew in the wrong state the day before?

Miraculously between the time people were allowed to board this flight and the time it left the gate?

I suspect their consolation prizes would have met with more acceptance had they been offered outside before anyone got their carryons tucked away and settled into their seats.

Just seems way too convenient that it was a small Asian guy rather than a 6'6" bodybuilder/biker that they "randomly" chose to remove involuntarily.  Almost wish it had turned out to be Ching Chong Jackie Chan.

Are you just trying to be a troll or just have no clue as to the saying, *expletive deleted*it happens?

Sometimes flight crews get too many hours just because *expletive deleted*it happens outside of their control and are unable to take a flight.

[Fly320s]

Miraculously between the time people were allowed to board this flight and the time it left the gate?

You know the time frame of when the deadhead crew was added to the flight?  That is impressive.  Do you have a contact in United's crew scheduling department?

I suspect their consolation prizes would have met with more acceptance had they been offered outside before anyone got their carryons tucked away and settled into their seats.

I wasn't there, but I bet the offer was made before boarding.  And even if the offer happened after boarding, that doesn't change anything.

Just seems way too convenient that it was a small Asian guy rather than a 6'6" bodybuilder/biker that they "randomly" chose to remove involuntarily.  Almost wish it had turned out to be Ching Chong Jackie Chan.

Maybe the 6'6" bodybuilder/biker would have been polite when he left the aircraft instead of resisting, like the Dr.

[makattak]

Miraculously between the time people were allowed to board this flight and the time it left the gate?

I doubt it happened just after all the passengers had been boarded. However, it could have. Additionally, given they had to FIND a flight crew and confirm any flights that could get them where they needed to be, it's not surprising that they might just make it in time for the last flight of the day to their destination. When things get messed up (as this clearly was the case) it creates a domino effect. So, yes, it is completely possible the staff knew nothing about needing the extra seats until everyone was on the plane.

NOW, as I said, if your passengers are already on the flight, you better take EXTRA care about removing them. The doctor in this case was also wrong, but the airline screwed up monumentally.

I'd go so far as to say airlines ought never to use force to remove a passenger who is not a danger. I know they have a right to do so, but as we have just seen, they chose poorly in exercising that right.

[RevDisk]

Are you just trying to be a troll or just have no clue as to the saying, *expletive deleted*it happens?

I actually asked KD5 that once directly if he was just trolling the board, or if he really believed the stuff he said. He claimed he was usually trying to be humorous. I tried explaining that it was not coming across well. At all. By anyone, and I did statistically valid sampling. I still really do think KD5NRH means well, but is not good at communicating over the internet. To be entirely fair, he did tone down the essentially suicidal suggestions he used to make.

[wmenorr67]

What a lot of people are forgetting that United may have wanted this guy off the plane but it was 5-0 that roughed him up.

[makattak]

What a lot of people are forgetting that United may have wanted this guy off the plane but it was 5-0 that roughed him up.

As I said earlier, when you call the police (especially the CHICAGO police), they are going to use force. Don't call the cops if you don't want force used.

[Brad Johnson]

The overbooking thing is a non-issue. It happens because it is a statistically relevant necessity. The issue here is the airline personnel's actions or lack thereof, the police's use of force in a situation where it was absolutely unjustified, and the generally piss-poor way the entire situation was handled in both camps. It was made exponentially worse by the United CEO's gawdawfully incompetent initial followup.

In this day and age of everything being posted to social media you NEVER do something as asinine as using force to throw an in-good-standing paying passenger off a plane, especially because you need the room for employees. Yes, the employees are a critical part of the airline's operational needs but paying passengers don't give a damn. Regardless of fiscal reality, to them being bumped for an airline employee is someone getting a free seat over a bought-and-paid-for ticket. No matter the actual business necessity the general public's response will be (not "could be", "might be", or "may possibly be") to hoist you up with your own petard. This goes double for an industry where use of their product has become increasingly burdensome (travel regs), less convenient (security requirements), and generally less comfortable (smaller seats and more compact rows). Anyone, and I mean anyone associated in the very least with the travel, customer service, or PR industries who claims they couldn't have anticipated the general public's level of response to this incident needs to seek other employment.

Short version... They chose poorly.

Brad

[lupinus]

Right to do so or not does not make it right. Technically right or not it was a dick move on the airlines part, which was doubled down on when they decided force was appropriate. And then they went in to full on dick stepping mode when they didn't immediately say whoever made the decision to call the police, instead of whoever could authorize a higher compensation offer, *expletive deleted*ed up.

Seriously, there's no one a step or two up the food chain who can authorize baiting the hook with tastier bait till someone takes it and willingly gets off the plane?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KD5NRH]

It happens because it is a statistically relevant necessity.

Necessity?  You've never read any sort of contract where a refund for cancellation less than X time before a given date was contingent on the seller's ability to find another buyer to pay for the product/service they reserved for you, and/or no refund at all if not cancelled at least Y before said date/time?  Cancellations under that policy would benefit the airlines; if they can't fill the seat, they still get the same amount of money and the plane is ~200lbs lighter.  If they sell the seat at the last minute rate, they get more money.

Short version... They chose poorly.

Never miss an opportunity to double down:
http://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus/la-fi-lazarus-united-low-priority-passenger-20170412-story.html

[MechAg94]

As I said earlier, when you call the police (especially the CHICAGO police), they are going to use force. Don't call the cops if you don't want force used.

The only realistic fix I can see is letting the airline offer actual cash incentives rather than just credit for more plane tickets.  Credit might mean something to frequent flyers, but for someone like me it would be nothing at all.  However, I bet the local people were following their rules including calling the cops. 

Overbooking probably doesn't cost the airline a great deal in direct costs as they are usually rescheduling those people to flights that are not full in the first place.  Maybe a little extra fuel on the 2nd plane. 

[BobR]

http://gomerblog.com/2017/04/top-10-reasons-united/

:)

bob

[Perd Hapley]

United has been saved further immolation! It is Trump's fault (freakin' all the Sulus are whack, yo)!

http://twitchy.com/sd-3133/2017/04/10/brace-yourselves-guess-who-star-trek-star-john-cho-blames-for-united-mess/

I think we all remember how Trump would end each campaign speech with, "We're going to make America​ great again. We're going to get these Asian physicians off our planes. Blood and soil. Heil me!"

[Hawkmoon]

The only realistic fix I can see is letting the airline offer actual cash incentives rather than just credit for more plane tickets.  Credit might mean something to frequent flyers, but for someone like me it would be nothing at all.  However, I bet the local people were following their rules including calling the cops. 

Are the airlines legally prohibited from offering cash?

The problem (for the airlines) is that cash incentives mean paying the actual value of the cash. Giving someone a ticket "worth" $800 means the face value of the ticket, not the actual cost to the airline for letting the person sit in that seat on some future flight. I have no idea what the profit margin is on a seat, but maybe that $800 voucher (if redeemed) ends up only costing the airline $500 or so.

[KD5NRH]

Are the airlines legally prohibited from offering cash?

Maybe if they offered the severed heads of their executives and schedulers as part of the package...

Frankly, after all the good press Southwest has gotten lately, I just can't see United recovering from this without some serious long term consequences.

Dang...when the dictionary is dissin' you, you done screwed the pooch hard:
https://twitter.com/MerriamWebster/status/851441589763407873
https://twitter.com/MerriamWebster/status/851480446064103447
https://twitter.com/MerriamWebster/status/851602942037819392

[Jim147]

They will be ok the government will dump a bunch of our money into them.