Intersting Opinion on the Push for $15 Minumim Wage

[Firethorn]

I do think CEO's should make pretty damn good salaries, but I think a lot of companies go after them like profession atheletes and pay way too much.

I've noted it this exact way as well.  Thing is, they're not just going after them like 'professional athletes'.  They're going after them like they're a star quarterback or the next Magic Johnson.

That's when you don't have a group of executives sharing positions and salaries between a ring of companies...

It's all about who you know, more than what you know.

But back to workers - wages in this country have been depressed, especially amongst the worker class, for decades by China and India.  This is finally coming to an end, but so aren't the 'cheap' goods from China.  

But there's a problem for the middle class - more and more automation means more and more capital invested in said automation.  People who invest capital expect a return.  Said return, despite being at ever lower effective rates(the percentage return is lower), still compromises a larger part of the economy as a whole.  So more is going to investors than workers, as a percentage.

So people's work is worth less than ever, as a percentage of the economy, but other than the richest segments of the USA, the 'average' person starts life at 18 with a zero balance.

Then due to the loss of the worth of basic labor, they have to go to school, and find out that a college education is more expensive than ever(having been increasing at above inflation for decades), and subsidization is lower than 'ever', having been replaced by loans.  The reasons for this is varied, but one is that college education is mostly a product of US labor, high skilled at that, which hasn't been as depressed by China.

So you go to school, and today come out with a debt approximately equal to a home loan.  So let's look at it.  Besides all the other expenses, you can have a graduate marry another graduate and buy a house.  At the start of their career they're attempting to make what's effectively 3 house payments.  That's not conductive to joining the part of the economy where 'most' of the money is going - investments.

Basically, unless you start with money, or are lucky enough to get an income in the highest 0.01%, you have very little chance to build up the capital necessary to make up the proportional difference, because you're starting deeper in the hole, and said returns aren't as high as they used to be either - which means that it takes longer for any capital you DO invest to increase.

[SADShooter]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-06/an-unintended-consequence-of-wal-mart-pay-raise-unhappy-workers?cmpid=yhoo

And lo, senior employees at Wal-Mart express discontent with the sudden increase in the pool level. This may be a more trenchant example than any municipal ordinance or small company.

[Tallpine]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-06/an-unintended-consequence-of-wal-mart-pay-raise-unhappy-workers?cmpid=yhoo

And lo, senior employees at Wal-Mart express discontent with the sudden increase in the pool level. This may be a more trenchant example than any municipal ordinance or small company.

Well, duh 

[Scout26]

Newton's Third Law applies to more then just physics...

[zahc]

Last time I went to  Panera Bread, I got a free cookie for using the kiosk.

[Ben]

Last time I went to  Panera Bread, I got a free cookie for using the kiosk.

Interesting that Panera Bread is doing kiosks. I think they're one of the big wage/social justice supporters. But then if you take five $10/hr employees, fire four of them and replace them with kisoks, then put the fifth one in charge of monitoring the kiosks for $20/hr, you're paying a living wage (and increasing your bottom line). :)

[SADShooter]

Interesting that Panera Bread is doing kiosks. I think they're one of the big wage/social justice supporters. But then if you take five $10/hr employees, fire four of them and replace them with kisoks, then put the fifth one in charge of monitoring the kiosks for $20/hr, you're paying a living wage (and increasing your bottom line). :)

Another underlying question is, who built the terminals and where are they supported?

[Ben]

Another underlying question is, who built the terminals and where are they supported?

Yup, the "blacksmith argument" certainly comes into play here. People need to think about what they're fighting for. I have to wonder how many cotton pickers sent death threats to Eli Whitney, and how many sent thank you cards because they didn't have to do that backbreaking work anymore.

[Scout26]

About a 6 months ago they remodeled the local Wal-mart.  They add the grocery store part to make it a Super Walmart.

They also went from 4 self checkout machines to 12, with the same one person they monitoring and helping people with the machines.   Figure that's ~8 less people as checkers.

[Ben]

About a 6 months ago they remodeled the local Wal-mart.  They add the grocery store part to make it a Super Walmart.

They also went from 4 self checkout machines to 12, with the same one person they monitoring and helping people with the machines.   Figure that's ~8 less people as checkers.

That's one where I might actually back labor. The stores I frequent all have four kiosks with one person. It seems like that's a good ratio based on the worker's ability to keep up with customer problems (which mostly seem to be customer initiated vs kiosk initiated). Having one person deal with more seems like it would be a disservice to both the employee and the customers.

As I said though, I've never seen a larger kiosk setup in action, so I could be totally wrong and maybe one person can handle twelve kiosks without problems.

[charby]

About a 6 months ago they remodeled the local Wal-mart.  They add the grocery store part to make it a Super Walmart.

They also went from 4 self checkout machines to 12, with the same one person they monitoring and helping people with the machines.   Figure that's ~8 less people as checkers.

Ours has 2-3 people running around the 12 station self checkout area.

I refuse to do self-checkout because I don't get a discount for self cashiering.

[brimic]

Ours has 2-3 people running around the 12 station self checkout area.

I refuse to do self-checkout because I don't get a discount for self cashiering.

Yep. Something about self-checkout rubs me the wrong way.

[Scout26]

From what I've seen they can keep up.  As you said, most is customer initiated issues vs machine issues.  Most problems can be quickly solved by the person walking over and sticking the magic key into the machine, punching in a code, and problem solved.  They also have it setup as a big rectangle (4 machines on the long side and 2 of the short side), with a single entrance and a single exit (past the checker). Which reduces the time to walk and fix the issue.  Most of the time, the checker is leaning on her machine/kiosk looking bored.  Again, this is a more middle class area, so the people using the machines are a little more tech savvy then in other areas.


I have no problem with using it, it beats waiting in line behind the moron that found the only item without a price tag, and the old lady that wants to write a check for $3.87 for her four cans of cat food.   I figure the discount is in reduced/stable prices.

[MillCreek]

Ours has 2-3 people running around the 12 station self checkout area.

I refuse to do self-checkout because I don't get a discount for self cashiering.

I feel that way as well, but sometimes the seduction of no lines at self-checkout vs. several people in line at the cashier wins out. My time is worth something, too.

[brimic]

I feel that way as well, but sometimes the seduction of no lines at self-checkout vs. several people in line at the cashier wins out. My time is worth something, too.

Am I the only one that picks a checkout line based on the hotness of the checkout girl?

[Scout26]

Am I the only one that picks a checkout line based on the hotness of the checkout girl?

Yeah, there is that also.  Especially if I am buying a ton of stuff.

 

[charby]

Am I the only one that picks a checkout line based on the hotness of the checkout girl?

You'd be really disappointed where I live, university town, but none of them seem to want to work at Wal-Mart. Now, Buffalo Wild Wings, that is a whole different dealio.

[Ben]

I refuse to do self-checkout because I don't get a discount for self cashiering.

Actually you do. If the machines weren't there, you'd be paying more for your groceries.

[zahc]

I refuse to do self-checkout because I don't get a discount for self cashiering.

Or a cookie.

[KD5NRH]

As often as not, when I go to a cashier I get one that doesn't know how to run their register, wants to make small talk about the items I'm buying (no, I'm not interested in discussing why I'm buying 3 different kinds of milk), or spends so long jawing it up with the person in front of me that I could have gone through the self checkout 4 times in the same amount of time.

Yeah, try going through a regular checkout with a can of starter fluid, a softball bat, duct tape and condoms.  They shut up, but then they spend more time staring at you.

[KD5NRH]

They also went from 4 self checkout machines to 12, with the same one person they monitoring and helping people with the machines.   Figure that's ~8 less people as checkers.

What gets me is when half or more of the self checks are shut down for no apparent reason.  WTF, is there now a computer union requiring them to get a lunch break and paid vacation?

[brimic]

Yeah, try going through a regular checkout with a can of starter fluid, a softball bat, duct tape and condoms.  They shut up, but then they spend more time staring at you.

My best one to date was a box of shotgun shells, a tarp, and a shovel.

[charby]

Actually you do. If the machines weren't there, you'd be paying more for your groceries.

The grocery stores in town don't have self checkouts and the prices are the same as Wal-Mart's groceries.

[Ron]

One of my local grocery stores eliminated the self checkout lines.

I spend more time in line now and my groceries aren't bagged the way I prefer.

[Ben]

The grocery stores in town don't have self checkouts and the prices are the same as Wal-Mart's groceries.

Non-sequitur.