Author Topic: World Cup? What World Cup? Now the World Series...  (Read 13993 times)

Sylvilagus Aquaticus

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World Cup? What World Cup? Now the World Series...
« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2006, 12:10:39 PM »
Rugby is much more interesting from a participation standpoint. Endlessly running back and forth after a ball is not.

Hell, I even watced pro Lacrosse at 0400 the other morning on ESPNWho.  People chasing each other while hitting the ball carrier with sticks. Much more enjoyable.

Even Arena Football is better, and my TV doesn't even pick up football.

My oldest Incubus' girlfriend ripped up her ACL, PCL, MCL, and medial meinscus a couple of weeks ago playing soccer. She's going under the scope, if not the big knife in a couple of weeks.  The next year of physical therapy is going to put grad school at A&M in a bind for her.

Soccer is a kid's game, best player by the 10 and under group and the illegals who infest the parks around here.

Feh. Rugby is a MAN's game.


I just don't have the wind for anything involving running AND fighting anymore. Doesn't mean I can't watch it and enjoy.

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Perd Hapley

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« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2006, 12:13:24 PM »
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Iain

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« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2006, 12:18:20 PM »
Quote from: Dannyboy
They won on an own goal* by the Paraguay captain, who had said that England were the third best team in their group.  Kinda funny, I thought.
I didn't know he had said that. England were poor, and again the substitutions were a mystery, and he persists with Owen Hargreaves.

It was a very harsh red card too. Was weird to see Dwight Yorke play as a holding midfielder after all those years at Villa and Man Utd playing as a striker. He had a good game though, for an old bloke.
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Dannyboy

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« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2006, 12:28:21 PM »
Quote from: Iain
I didn't know he had said that. England were poor, and again the substitutions were a mystery, and he persists with Owen Hargreaves.

It was a very harsh red card too. Was weird to see Dwight Yorke play as a holding midfielder after all those years at Villa and Man Utd playing as a striker. He had a good game though, for an old bloke.
I agree about Hargreaves.  Although, I think he did replace the right guy.  Joe Cole, in my opinion is highly overrated.  About the red card.  I didn't know that he had gotten a yellow in the first half.  I thought that tackle had deserved a yellow, so I have to take back everything I said about the ref at the time.  I was surprised at seeing Yorke play as a defensive midfielder.  Shocked, actually.  But you're right, he did have a good game.
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Iain

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« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2006, 12:34:43 PM »
We're going to have to agree to disagree again - I rate Joe Cole very highly, and would go so far as to say that in the last couple of England games he has been the most threatening player we have.

I don't get the Hargreaves thing at all, we are assured that he is a regular Bayern Munich player and is highly rated and Sven persists with him, but really he has done nothing in an England shirt. Looking at the switch that was made today it would have made more sense to bring Carrick on.

On the subject of referee's though - the Mexican in charge of the England game was an officious soul. Can't remember ever seeing a goalkeeper booked like that.
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K Frame

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« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2006, 12:34:44 PM »
"for the unenlightened, an own goal is when you score in your own net."

Yep, this blissfully unenlightened figured that out. Smiley

In fact, wasn't there an Argentinian or Colombian superstar soccer player about 10 years ago who made an own goal that cost his team their expected World Cup?

IIRC, about 3 months later someone walked up to him and blew his brains out. Something about his fox paw costing a lot of people in his country a lot of pride and money, IIRC.


Ah! I just found it on Google.

"Ten days after Colombia's star defender, Andres Escobar, scored an own goal to help the United States to a 2-1 upset at the 1994 Cup, he was gunned down outside a bar in Medellin, Colombia. The reason for the murder has never been fully explained.

Colombian police first said it involved crazed soccer fans. Others suggested it was connected to drug cartels and gambling syndicates. Authorities eventually blamed it on an argument over the way Escobar had parked his car.

But an English report, citing unidentified sources, said the incident was the result of a sting operation that failed.

Escobar's death came 48 hours after another infamous event: Diego Maradona of Argentina tested positive for ephedrine and was banned in his final World Cup. The legendary player blamed the positive test on a conspiracy by the CIA and FIFA, which at the time was led by Joao Havelange of Brazil."
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Iain

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« Reply #56 on: June 10, 2006, 12:45:19 PM »
From what I remember there was a lot of talk about involvement of drug cartels and other such everyday stuff in Columbia.

The link I just found said that he was shot 12 times and that each time his attacker shot him he shouted 'Goal'. Maybe the way that Escobar parked his car was just the final straw for this guy.

Maradona was a little strung out by then. Shame that one of the two greatest players to ever play the game should end up like that, and the other ended up doing adverts for impotence products.
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Dannyboy

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« Reply #57 on: June 10, 2006, 01:10:03 PM »
Quote from: Iain
and the other ended up doing adverts for impotence products.
Who was that?
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Iain

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« Reply #58 on: June 10, 2006, 01:32:53 PM »
Pele has had an association with Pfizer. Not sure if it continues.
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Sergeant Bob

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« Reply #59 on: June 10, 2006, 02:04:37 PM »
Quote from: Iain
Shame that one of the two greatest players to ever play the game should end up like that, and the other ended up doing adverts for impotence products.
Wow! Bob Dole played kickball?
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garrettwc

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« Reply #60 on: June 11, 2006, 06:08:48 AM »
I have to claim some bit of ignorance beyond the goal of kicking the ball into the net and not using your hands I know nothing about the game.

That being said, I did watch the Trinidad vs. Sweden game. It was interesting and there were some exciting "plays" if that is the correct term. What I didn't understand was the outcome. It appeared to me that the game ended with no score (goals) but yet Trinidad is declared the winner. How's that work?

Dannyboy

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« Reply #61 on: June 11, 2006, 07:52:40 AM »
Quote from: garrettwc
What I didn't understand was the outcome. It appeared to me that the game ended with no score (goals) but yet Trinidad is declared the winner. How's that work?
It isn't so much that Trinidad won.  They were a major underdog playing a good Swedish team and they played them to a draw, while playing the entire second half a man down.  In their case, a draw was as good as a win because they weren't expected to do either.
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Iain

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« Reply #62 on: June 11, 2006, 09:05:02 AM »
Basically it was about a nation of 1.3m inhabitants holding a much larger country (a country with a decent football pedigree too) to a draw despite having had a player sent off.

0-0 draws are sometimes exceptional matches, and in this instance demonstrated some serious heart on the part of Trindad and Tobago.

Shame the Iranians didn't hold up as well in the second half. They gave Mexico something to think about in the first half.
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Stand_watie

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« Reply #63 on: June 11, 2006, 01:00:28 PM »
Quote from: Iain
...Shame the Iranians didn't hold up as well in the second half. They gave Mexico something to think about in the first half.
Shame it didn't happen from more than the perspective of just sports. It might have a positive political impact on the middle east. Be better yet if an Arab team fared well in the cup.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/11/060611162437.7450zyd1.html
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Dannyboy

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« Reply #64 on: June 11, 2006, 03:00:20 PM »
Iain,
Going back to yur post about England and Hargreaves, here's an interesting article.  Someone else had the same thoughts as you.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=370679&root=worldcup&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos2&cc=5901

Old habits die hard. Just when Sven-Goran Eriksson appeared to have reinvented himself as a demob-happy gambler, England reverted to type.

Throughout the Swede's five-and-a-half years in charge, there have been several common denominators.

'First half good, second half not so good' (to quote Sir Alex Ferguson)? Check. Negative substitutions (often involving Owen Hargreaves)? Check. Defending his automatic selections, regardless of their form? Check. An overriding feeling that the team is rather less than the sum of its parts? Check.

A 1-0 victory over Paraguay was both satisfactory and deflatory. Three points were garnered as excessive optimism, epitomised by the flag-bearing masses who have turned England into a mosaic of Union Jacks, was fuelled further by the ideal start given them by a combination of David Beckham and Carlos Gamarra.

So far, so good. But, as is their wont under Eriksson, England made decidedly fallible opponents appear threatening.

A second goal could have been scored - though, while the Germans excelled at long-range shooting with the much-debated World Cup ball, England surpassed themselves at lifting it into the Frankfurt orbit - but it would have been undeserved.

Instead England retreated to their own penalty box, inviting a previously unambitious Paraguayan side forward, and provided them with hope of an equaliser.

To those accustomed to Eriksson's cautious instincts, there was little new in this. England, seemingly intent on sitting on one-goal leads, were comfortably outscored in qualifying by a Poland side whose pondering approach and fundamental mediocrity was exploited by Ecuador the previous day.

Defensive midfielders, long guaranteed a place on Eriksson's bench, have become a feature of second halves.

The appearance of Owen Hargreaves, who has assumed a symbolic value as the metaphorical punchbag for the Swede's critics, had a certain inevitability.

And, opponents of the Anglo-German Canadian may feel, a certain futility. It is perhaps cruel to suggest Hargreaves' cameo was epitomised by a mis-kick on the edge of his own box; nonetheless it is an abiding memory.

Greater tests than Paraguay await, and England's lack of conviction is already a concern. Attempting to temper the gung-ho instincts of Kevin Keegan's sides has produced a team with a reluctance to carry on attacking.

Though Paul Robinson was largely untroubled, the verve with which the inventive Nelson Valdez attacked showed that the defence is not yet watertight.

And though the first-half offered some cause for encouragement, this was not a performance to justify a billing among the favourites.

Recent England campaigns have been bedevilled by excuses, some more justified than others. The supposed determination to eschew them this time, however, has been swiftly discarded.

Blaming the heat - as Beckham, who plies his trade in one of Europe's hottest cities - did for the second-half decline, is a smokescreen. Given that the entire tournament will be played in the German summer, it is also likely to be a constant throughout the World Cup.

Only Joe Cole, the unquestioned star, located his best form and, with his ability to glide past defenders, also provided a different option during his brief spell as an auxiliary second striker.

The contrast with his predecessor as Peter Crouch's partner, once renowned for doing just that, was stark.

Michael Owen is only 26 and yet is unrecognisable from the tormentor of Argentina eight years ago. Injury is a contributing factor and, for all the statistics about the squad's supposed fitness, he looks no sharper than Beckham was four years ago.


BenRadford/GettyImages
Owen Hargreaves struggled to impose himself on the Paraguay midfield.

Listless and off the pace, his performance made a mockery of the first half of Eriksson's assessment ('I think Michael Owen did well and will get better and better'), though it is hard to dispute the latter, if only because it must rank among the poorest displays in his 78 caps.

This was a reminder that, however much his recovery from a metatarsal injury impeded him, Owen is not the complete striker; he never has been and never will be.

As his scintillating pace becomes a memory, his faulty touch becomes a greater problem. Sheer speed is no longer his escape route.

Three games into his comeback, Owen should not shoulder all the blame. Eriksson's excessive backing for his favourites contributes to his popularity with the established players.

The Newcastle forward, protected by a manager who considers him undroppable and supported by some high-profile sycophants among the ranks of the ex-players, was assured of his place long ago.

And as match fitness proves elusive for Owen, Eriksson's faith is starting to look blind. Alternatives, briefly tested and swiftly discarded, languish at home.

The bench contains a sole striking option - Eriksson's wild card, Theo Walcott, which he is reluctant to play.

Crouch, his willingness and limitations on display in equal measure, foraged gamely in attack, but his was a lone effort. Only Cole offered a hint of inspiration and Owen's impotence may only serve to tempt Eriksson further to rush Wayne Rooney's return.

Instead, with England crying out for the sharpness of Jermain Defoe, Eriksson's options came from a squad overloaded with midfielders. Which brings us, once again, to Owen Hargreaves. Old habits, and all that.
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Iain

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« Reply #65 on: June 11, 2006, 03:34:37 PM »
Depressingly I'd agree with a lot of that.

I like Peter Crouch, for a big lanky chap he has some good skills and some good touch. The problem with playing Crouch is that he is seen as a target man up front and England revert to route one football, when actually their most powerful weapon is a genuinely world class midfield. In an advanced position Beckham's crosses are still some of the best in the world, Cole runs without fear, Gerrard can pass a ball with the best of them, and Lampard has deft distribution and a knack for being in the right place to score. Certainly the latter three are some of the best midfielders plying their trade anywhere in the world right now, Gerrard especially.

Crouch is ok, but he isn't world class, and the article is quite correct to say that Owen isn't either. Personally I'd like to see a fit Rooney playing off Crouch, but the ball being passed through the midfield. It may well happen, or at least the midfield may become more important. Maybe Walcott is the big surprise to be unleashed, after all Rooney was no older, he has scored plenty when he was playing for Southampton, and Henry says that Walcott is faster than himself.

There's hope, it was only the first game, and three points were taken from it, but there isn't a whole lot more positive to be said than that.

Portugal looked distinctly ordinary tonight, and Holland didn't look a whole lot better with the exception of Robben. Portugal have always been my 'second team', no reason for it really except that when I was really getting into football and my own play was improving Figo was at the height of his powers. Faded noticeably since. And on that subject - wonder what Zindane can still do?
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Dannyboy

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« Reply #66 on: June 12, 2006, 04:17:16 AM »
Quote from: Iain
I like Peter Crouch, for a big lanky chap he has some good skills and some good touch. The problem with playing Crouch is that he is seen as a target man up front and England revert to route one football, when actually their most powerful weapon is a genuinely world class midfield.
I couldn't agree more.  I was watching them play thinking the exact same thing.  There's just way too much skill in their midfield to have to resort to the long ball.  That was the first time I had seen Crouch play.  I was surprised that he was actually quite deft despite the gangly body.  He can move his feet fairly well.  I think he probably needs to gain about 30-50 pounds to be really good in the box.  Right now, he weighs as much as anyone else on the pitch and he gets pushed around a bit.
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Dannyboy

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« Reply #67 on: June 12, 2006, 04:35:10 AM »
Wow!  Australia just got screwed!  Their keeper got bodychecked by a Japanese player so he missed the cross and it went straight into the net.  The ref didn't call a foul.  Bad, bad, bad.
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garrettwc

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« Reply #68 on: June 12, 2006, 08:09:56 AM »
Quote
Basically it was about a nation of 1.3m inhabitants holding a much larger country (a country with a decent football pedigree too) to a draw despite having had a player sent off.

0-0 draws are sometimes exceptional matches, and in this instance demonstrated some serious heart on the part of Trindad and Tobago.
This still didn't answer my question, but after going to the World Cup page on wikipedia I think I understand a little better. Trinidad didn't actually "win" the match. It was a draw. However, they played well enough that the draw gave them 1 point towards their total so they have a chance of advancing in the tournament rather than being eliminated. Is that it?

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« Reply #69 on: June 12, 2006, 08:32:49 AM »
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Absolutely ZERO interest here.
Ditto.
Except, I have zero interest in just about every sport.
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Rovi

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« Reply #70 on: June 12, 2006, 08:44:18 AM »
Quote from: garrettwc
However, they played well enough that the draw gave them 1 point towards their total so they have a chance of advancing in the tournament rather than being eliminated. Is that it?
Not quite.
During the Group Phase of the tournament, each country plays the three other countries in their group, and points are awarded as follows- 0 if you loose, 3 if you win, and 1 each for a draw.

Points totals at the end of the Group Phase determine who goes forward to the Knockout Phase, leading up to the Final.


Trinidad & Tobago won 1 point for holding Sweden to a draw (The Swedes also got 1).
They get the point no matter how well/badly they played.

1 point for a minnow (T&T) against a (minor) superpower (Sweden) is considered to be a considerable achievement.
The Swedes won't be happy with 'only' having 1 point from the match, as it could make a considerable difference to their Group total and therefore have a big influence on their chances of progressing to the Knockout Phase and who they might meet there.

Dannyboy

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« Reply #71 on: June 12, 2006, 08:57:02 AM »
Ouch!  That's gotta hurt.  The US just got spanked by the Czech Republic in a game that lots of people thought they could have even won.  It was definitely an important game because I can't see them beating Italy.  Beating Italy is the only way they're going to advance to the next round, barring some really crazy happenings.
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Iain

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« Reply #72 on: June 12, 2006, 09:28:57 AM »
Garrett - I see your point, it didn't answer your question. Yep, basically points on the board is a help. Trinidad will be unlikely to advance, but they are a tiny country, this is their first World Cup and they'll most likely walk away proud of their efforts.

Australia did very well. Japan didn't look amazing, but Cahill proved again why I rate him. He is a good player, useful at most aspects of the strikers game.

The US weren't great, but that's not to take anything away from a good Czech team. To say that I'm excited about Rosicky in the Premiership would be an understatement. Arsenal are building a quality, young midfield. That shot that smacked off the crossbar was hit as well as I've ever seen a ball hit, and the finish for the second goal was impressive. The US are against the wall now, barring something silly like the Czech's losing to both Italy and Ghana. I think the Czech's could well beat Italy, looking forward to that match.
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garrettwc

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« Reply #73 on: June 12, 2006, 04:33:47 PM »
Thanks Iain. Between you and Rovi I think I see the significance of it all.

It's sort of like a privateer coming into F1 and scoring a point against the factory teams.

Even with my narrow understanding of the sport, I would have to say the Czech team had the USA's number.

Iain

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« Reply #74 on: June 13, 2006, 05:43:43 AM »
They did. Despite Arena's earlier proclamations this US team didn't perform as well as they did four years ago. They beat Portugal then.

The US do have a tough group, and the Czech's are a good team, scored more goals in qualifying than any other European side.
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