*&$*(*&^$ Ford!

[Hawkmoon]

Just went to Ford's web site to take a look at the new Ranger compared to the F150.

After wasting a good half hour, I could not find anything to tell me which models/trim lines of either truck are available as 2-door or extended cab versions. WTF, Ford? What's the point of even having a web site if you can't be bothered to provide the most basic of product information?

[dogmush]

The Ranger doesn't come in 2 door, only Super Cab and Crew Cab. All trims are available as either.

The F150 is only available as a 2 door in XL and XLT trims. Super Cab gets you XL, XLT, Lariat, and Raptor trims. You have to get a Crew Cab to get a King Ranch.

Just click "build and price" on each vehicle and pick a body. It'll fill in which trims are available.

[Hawkmoon]

Super Cab is a 2-door, isn't it? With some space behind the front seats?

When I tried to use click and build for the Ranger, it listed a bunch of model designations by number, with nothing to indicate if they were standard, extended, or crew cab. And the product photos show a standard cab ...

[Brad Johnson]

Super Cab = Cab and a half (half-doors and compact seats in the rear section)
Super Crew = Double cab (full-size doors and seats both front and back)

https://shop.ford.com/build/ranger/#/select/

Brad

[dogmush]

Super Cab Ranger has 2 Suicide Doors in the back.  Front doors have to be open to open them.

The Standard cab F150's used to be like this, but now are true two door trucks.  Super Cab F150's have the suicide doors.

[HeroHog]

My Saturn Ion Quad Coupe was that way and we LOVED IT! SO handy and you wouldn't believe what will fit in there!

[Hawkmoon]

It would cost me $31,510 to get a Ranger optioned as close as possible to what I want. Unfortunately, what I really want is a manual transmission and a manual limited slip rear axle ... and they don't offer either of those. I guess Ford doesn't want to sell me a new ranger. For $31,510, I can get an entirely new drive train dropped into my Jeep Comanche, and get it painted, and still have money left over.

[lupinus]

It would cost me $31,510 to get a Ranger optioned as close as possible to what I want. Unfortunately, what I really want is a manual transmission and a manual limited slip rear axle ... and they don't offer either of those. I guess Ford doesn't want to sell me a new ranger. For $31,510, I can get an entirely new drive train dropped into my Jeep Comanche, and get it painted, and still have money left over.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that's the case with any new vehicle

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[dogmush]

It would cost me $31,510 to get a Ranger optioned as close as possible to what I want. Unfortunately, what I really want is a manual transmission and a manual limited slip rear axle ... and they don't offer either of those. I guess Ford doesn't want to sell me a new ranger. For $31,510, I can get an entirely new drive train dropped into my Jeep Comanche, and get it painted, and still have money left over.

This is my shocked face. You want the obsolete tech.

If it's that important you can still get a stick in a Taco.  You just need to get one of the TRD versions.  I think the TRD Sport starts around $32k.

[grampster]

Jeep is bringing back their pickup.  Every time I see a Toyota with TRD on the box I wonder why anyone would want a TURD for a pickup.

[Ben]

This is my shocked face. You want the obsolete tech.

If it's that important you can still get a stick in a Taco.  You just need to get one of the TRD versions.  I think the TRD Sport starts around $32k.

 

Didn't they also still have a stick available in that Tacoma "work truck" - the plain jane extended cab without back seats? Or maybe they're not making it anymore.  I briefly looked at it when I was trading down from the F250, but they only came with the 4 banger.

[Hawkmoon]

Jeep is bringing back their pickup.  Every time I see a Toyota with TRD on the box I wonder why anyone would want a TURD for a pickup.

The new Jeep "Gladiator" isn't really a pickup. It has a barely vestigial bed (5 feet, I think) and a soft top. It's essentially a rerun of the old CJ Scrambler, but they're calling it a pickup. We've been laughing at it over on the Comanche Club forum. The consensus is that Jeep will sell a bunch of them ... to people who don't know what a Jeep used to be. The real Jeep people don't want anything to do with it.

[Brad Johnson]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that's the case with any new vehicle

Pickin's are pretty slim for stick-stirrers.

https://www.tfltruck.com/2017/09/comprehensive-2018-pickup-trucks-manual-transmission/

Interesting to note that getting the Ram HD with a manual deletes the Cummins HO engine option (385hp/900lb-ft). Tick the manual tranny option box and the only diesel available is the entry-level 350hp/660lb-ft version (still a helluva lot compared to even a few short years ago).

It's a testament to the behind-the-scenes electronic gimmickry necessary for driveline components to live under that much twist. Components tend to snap on a regular basis when you're applying that much force and there aren't any slushy bits between engine and road to cushion things.

Brad

[230RN]

^ A good way to put it.  Very amusing.

[MechAg94]

I had trouble trying to buy Toyota accessories.  I wanted the all-weather non-carpet floor mats.  The web site section selling accessories seemed to use different terminology for cab size and such than the section talking about the trucks. 

[Hawkmoon]

It's a testament to the behind-the-scenes electronic gimmickry necessary for driveline components to live under that much twist. Components tend to snap on a regular basis when you're applying that much force and there aren't any slushy bits between engine and road to cushion things.

Which is testimony to the fact that most younger people can't properly drive a manual transmission. Not even the ones who can use one to make a car go down the road.

I'm 74 years old. I was taught to drive a standard by my grandfather. He taught well, IMHO. On my old '88 Jeep Cherokee, the clutch slave cylinder went out at 204,000 miles. It's internal, so replacing the combination slave cylinder/release bearing meant dropping the transmission and transfer case. At that point it would have been silly not to replace the clutch -- or so I thought. Once it was opened up, there was virtually no difference between the new clutch disk and the old one with 204,000 miles on it. I installed the new one, but I saved the old clutch and I wouldn't hesitate to throw it into a beater that needs a clutch.

On the other hand, I had a classmate in college who went through three clutches in 15,000 miles. 

[HeroHog]

Which is testimony to the fact that most younger people can't properly drive a manual transmission. Not even the ones who can use one to make a car go down the road.

At 16 I learned that if you revved the engine in a 66 Mustang and side-stepped the clutch, it didn't do the burnout I was expecting but it DID toss my driveshaft across the high school parking lot...
   

[Brad Johnson]

Which is testimony to the fact that most younger people can't properly drive a manual transmission. Not even the ones who can use one to make a car go down the road.

To a degree, yes. In this case, though, it's more an issue of huge rotating masses locked firmly together and under extreme stress.

900 lb-ft of torque is, well, a lot. Latched on to a trailer loaded with ten or fifteen tons of stuff there is an extreme amount of pressure on the truck's spinnamathingies. The drive line will likely take the strain if loads remain constant and transient shock loads are limited, something relatively easy to accomplish with an auto tranny and electronic controls. Manual transmission? Not so much. It's hard-locked from piston to tire. With that kind of torque on tap you're just one unanticipated driveline shock away from "boom".

Brad

[dogmush]

Which is testimony to the fact that most younger people can't properly drive a manual transmission. Not even the ones who can use one to make a car go down the road.

I'm 74 years old. I was taught to drive a standard by my grandfather. He taught well, IMHO. On my old '88 Jeep Cherokee, the clutch slave cylinder went out at 204,000 miles. It's internal, so replacing the combination slave cylinder/release bearing meant dropping the transmission and transfer case. At that point it would have been silly not to replace the clutch -- or so I thought. Once it was opened up, there was virtually no difference between the new clutch disk and the old one with 204,000 miles on it. I installed the new one, but I saved the old clutch and I wouldn't hesitate to throw it into a beater that needs a clutch.

On the other hand, I had a classmate in college who went through three clutches in 15,000 miles. 

While there certainly are young folks that can't drive let's keep things in perspective.  An 88 XJ had a whopping 177hp and 224 ft.lbs of torque.  It's not amazing engineering to put a clutch behind that and have it last 150,000-200,000.  That's a low stress environment unless you intentionally slip it for traction.

I had the same 10.5" Spec Stage 2 clutch last 75000 miles behind a 500hp/525ft-lp blown V8.  That was a little tougher.  But to bring it back to Brad's post, the non semi truck clutch and manual that can last 150,000 behind 900ft-lbs of torque doesn't exist.  Doesn't matter how gentle you are with the pedal.

[lupinus]

Which is testimony to the fact that most younger people can't properly drive a manual transmission. Not even the ones who can use one to make a car go down the road.

I'm 74 years old. I was taught to drive a standard by my grandfather. He taught well, IMHO. On my old '88 Jeep Cherokee, the clutch slave cylinder went out at 204,000 miles. It's internal, so replacing the combination slave cylinder/release bearing meant dropping the transmission and transfer case. At that point it would have been silly not to replace the clutch -- or so I thought. Once it was opened up, there was virtually no difference between the new clutch disk and the old one with 204,000 miles on it. I installed the new one, but I saved the old clutch and I wouldn't hesitate to throw it into a beater that needs a clutch.

On the other hand, I had a classmate in college who went through three clutches in 15,000 miles. 

Damn kids get off my clutch pedal!

It couldn't possibly be that they aren't offering a manual because there's no market for it and they could accomplish much better results with an automatic.

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[bedlamite]

When I bought my truck in 2010, there was no one at the dealer that could drive a manual transmission.

[Northwoods]

There are things they can do with automated or automatic transmissions that even the best drivers can't with a manual.  Especially with the big rigs.

[charby]

There are things they can do with automated or automatic transmissions that even the best drivers can't with a manual.  Especially with the big rigs.

Most people are still stuck in the mindset of the old 2 or 3 speed automatic transmissions of the 50s-80s.

[Firethorn]

Most people are still stuck in the mindset of the old 2 or 3 speed automatic transmissions of the 50s-80s.

Starting with about the 2012 models, I noticed that they got automatic transmissions to the point that you have higher expected mileage with them than with manual transmissions.  Greater fuel mileage was one of the reasons for manuals to begin with.

In addition, automatics aren't the slushboxes of the past, but these days are more likely to be an "automatic manual", where it is actually a manual gearbox that isn't user shifted, but shifted by relay.  This allows them to make the transmissions even smaller, stuff more gears in, and have sophisticated computer programs doing the work.

[Brad Johnson]

In addition, automatics aren't the slushboxes of the past, but these days are more likely to be an "automatic manual", where it is actually a manual gearbox that isn't user shifted, but shifted by relay.

A fair number of performance vehicles and now some big rigs have gone to "automatic manual" transmissions (essentially an old-school manual with an electronically controlled clutch and electric or electro-hydraulic actuators handling the gear levers). Still, most passenger vehicles, including light/medium-duty trucks, continue to rely on a traditionally-configured automatic transmission (torque converter, internal clutch baskets, etc) because they are easier to make work smoothly and seamlessly in a wider range of driving styles. I understand some of the latest-gen autoboxes are hybridized even further with the direct-mesh gearsets of a traditional manual and the torque converter of an automatic, essentially a melding of automatic and manual transmissions. Actually kinda cool when you think about it.

Some European brands like Volkswagen and BMW are integrating more of the DCT-style auto/manual units into their passenger car models. There are definitely some advantages to the configuration but I'm waiting to see what kind of longevity they get in real-world situations before I am too accepting of the change.

Brad