Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Jamie B on April 04, 2012, 08:33:27 PM
-
http://www.coshoctontribune.com/article/20120404/NEWS01/204040328/1002/rss01
Judge approves fired pregnant teacher's lawsuit
CINCINNATI (AP) -- A federal judge has given the go-ahead for trial in a lawsuit against the Archdiocese of Cincinnati by a Catholic school teacher fired after she became pregnant through artificial insemination.
This is going to be a very interesting case!
The Catechism of the Catholic Church is expressly against artificial means for pregnancy.
The terms of her employment contract will play a big part in the legal wranglings.
-
What leg is she standing on? ???
-
Wonder if they'd let the suit go forward if it was a cleaning woman fired from the local mosque for failing to wear a burka and eating a ham sandwich . . .
-
Don't like it, don't work for a Catholic institution. It's not exactly hidden in the fine print.
-
Don't like it, don't work for a Catholic institution. It's not exactly hidden in the fine print.
Correct, but as mentioned above, it depends on the contract. Wouldn't have mattered in SC as we are a RTW state. :angel:
-
Correct, but as mentioned above, it depends on the contract. Wouldn't have mattered in SC as we are a RTW state. :angel:
Depends. You can still work under contract in a RTW state. Contract agreed to by both parties overrides RTW. Of course, "at will" applies if there is no contract.
-
Wonder if they'd let the suit go forward if it was a cleaning woman fired from the local mosque for failing to wear a burka and eating a ham sandwich . . .
Good point, but it might not matter if the place had rules to follow that the person was notified of when they were hired.
-
I actually have a pdf of the Diocese contract with our local teachers.
AI is not mentioned specifically, but it does reference 'any violation of Diocesan policy' as grounds for dismissal.
Seems that even non-Catholic teachers must know the Diocesan policy to maintain employment.
Still not sure if this was the reason.
As usual, had she kept her mouth shut, there would have been no issue.
-
I'm with the church on this one. Employers have the right to impose arbitrary requirements on employees, provided that it's known up front. Their property, their rules.
-
Instead of an autocracy of the many we are codifying an "autocracy" of the individual. This can only lead to anarchy.
-
I don't think liberals and feminists look far enough ahead to see the potential unintended consequences of their recent actions against the RCC.
If the RCC is required to pay for birth control or employ people who do other things in conflict with the church, it would not be too hard to imagine a future where the Church finds it 'difficult' to find women who are qualified for positions that are under 50 years old.
-
I don't think liberals and feminists look far enough ahead to see the potential unintended consequences of their recent actions against the RCC.
If the RCC is required to pay for birth control or employ people who do other things in conflict with the church, it would not be too hard to imagine a future where the Church finds it 'difficult' to find women who are qualified for positions that are under 50 years old.
The RCC, IMHO, is to focused on what they believe, as opposed to reality of the world where they exist.
I am not saying that they need to completely abandon their values, but they need to use common sense.
The current average of a RCC priest is 67 years old.
If they allowed priests to be married, they would not be so hard up as they currently are.
They may ride their current beliefs structure straight into obscurity....
-
Instead of an autocracy of the many we are codifying an "autocracy" of the individual. This can only lead to anarchy.
You get me so horny when you speak of anarchy.
The individual is the smallest minority.
I want my freedom.
-
The RCC, IMHO, is to focused on what they believe, as opposed to reality of the world where they exist.
I am not saying that they need to completely abandon their values, but they need to use common sense.
The current average of a RCC priest is 67 years old.
If they allowed priests to be married, they would not be so hard up as they currently are.
They may ride their current beliefs structure straight into obscurity....
Therein lies the difference...
You believe something which might be a legitimate criticism of the RCC, but others are actively trying to force their will on the religeon.
There are plenty of wishy-washy-anything-goes 'christian' sects in America, and their membership numbers are dropping faster than the RCC's.
-
Any religion is not completely free to do whatever they want.
Limitations do exist legally and morally - the RCC cannot escape that.
-
Any religion is not completely free to do whatever they want.
Limitations do exist legally and morally - the RCC cannot escape that.
The RCC, IMHO, is to focused on what they believe, as opposed to reality of the world where they exist.
I am not saying that they need to completely abandon their values, but they need to use common sense.
The current average of a RCC priest is 67 years old.
If they allowed priests to be married, they would not be so hard up as they currently are.
They may ride their current beliefs structure straight into obscurity....
???
So are you saying the RCC has to hire people who won't follow their policies, and keep them no matter what they do?
And why would the traditions that the RCC has held for hundreds of years be their undoing at this point in history? I know Canticle for Liebowitz is fiction, but between modern notions and the RCC, I'm certainly not betting on the moderns. The RCC has some ideas I don't cotton to, but they've shown a lot of staying power.
-
I actually have a pdf of the Diocese contract with our local teachers.
AI is not mentioned specifically, but it does reference 'any violation of Diocesan policy' as grounds for dismissal.
Seems that even non-Catholic teachers must know the Diocesan policy to maintain employment.
Still not sure if this was the reason.
As usual, had she kept her mouth shut, there would have been no issue.
How was she to keep her mouth shut? She went to ask for maternity leave and the school knew she was single.
-
How was she to keep her mouth shut? She went to ask for maternity leave and the school knew she was single.
No, she was not fired for being pregnant, but the method - artificial insemination.
This violates the RCC Catechism.
-
No, she was not fired for being pregnant, but the method - artificial insemination.
This violates the RCC Catechism.
Then again, so does being single and pregnant. :lol:
-
Then again, so does being single and pregnant. :lol:
Oh *expletive deleted*it - I missed that one!
Yea, so much for any precedent here.
She is complete toast! =D
-
Emphasis mine:
The RCC, IMHO, is to focused on what they believe, as opposed to reality of the world where they exist.
I am not saying that they need to completely abandon their values, but they need to use common sense.
The current average of a RCC priest is 67 years old.
If they allowed priests to be married, they would not be so hard up as they currently are.
They may ride their current beliefs structure straight into obscurity....
Somehow I don't think the RCC is all that worried about your assesment of their structures and future viability.
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
-
Emphasis mine:
Somehow I don't think the RCC is all that worried about your assesment of their structures and future viability.
Gettin' all Biblical, eh? I figured the fact that they had been around (at least in some form) for over a thousand years ought to have given him a clue.
-
Here is a more detailed article (http://communitypress.cincinnati.com/article/AB/20120402/NEWS/304020072/Fired-single-pregnant-teacher-wins-court-decision?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|communities|s)
-
the contract wasn’t gender-neutral – artificial insemination issues only apply to women, she said
What delightful idiocy.
-
The #1 fastest growing religious sect in America is Mormonism.
#2 is R Catholicism.
The Roe Effect is in effect.
-
Emphasis mine:
Somehow I don't think the RCC is all that worried about your assesment of their structures and future viability.
Think what you want to think. It is not just me.
Currently, about 23% of the US population is Catholic. Less than 30% attend church.
Catholic school population is down well over 50% from 1980.
Philadelphia is currently closing 33 Catholic schools.
The Rockford IL Diocese is closing 57 parishes.
Nationally, 1,200 Catholic schools have been closed in the last 11 years.
Students enrolled in US Catholic schools have dropped 642,000 in 10 years, to 2,000,000.
Now, add in all the deserved bad press where the RCC has completely mishandled the priest abuse crisis, and it is obvious that Catholics have been voting with their feet and leaving.
My assessment is quite accurate. The RCC is the poster child of what not to do these days.
-
Think what you want to think. It is not just me.
Currently, about 23% of the US population is Catholic. Less than 30% attend church.
Catholic school population is down well over 50% from 1980.
Philadelphia is currently closing 33 Catholic schools.
The Rockford IL Diocese is closing 57 parishes.
Nationally, 1,200 Catholic schools have been closed in the last 11 years.
Students enrolled in US Catholic schools have dropped 642,000 in 10 years, to 2,000,000.
Now, add in all the deserved bad press where the RCC has completely mishandled the priest abuse crisis, and it is obvious that Catholics have been voting with their feet and leaving.
My assessment is quite accurate. The RCC is the poster child of what not to do these days.
The growth or shrinking of the Catholic church is a straw man.
And not the point of this thread.
The point is, are they allowed to enter a contract with employees that restricts thier activities outside of work.
And that should be the focus of this discussion.
-
You get me so horny when you speak of anarchy.
The individual is the smallest minority.
I want my freedom.
I want your freedom too. I want my own. What I meant was that there are cases where one person expects the majority to bend to his/her will rather than just seeking another venue in which to exercise that freedom.
Hey, any opportunity to feel horny should never be overlooked. :)
-
I want your freedom too. I want my own. What I meant was that there are cases where one person expects the majority to bend to his/her will rather than just seeking another venue in which to exercise that freedom.
Hey, any opportunity to feel horny should never be overlooked. :)
I've told people before freedom is an ugly ugly thing. The RCC is free to make decisions as an organization that may lead to its downfall. If you suck so bad as an employer, you won't find employees. If people want jobs, they won't care. If she reall needed AI so bad, she should have found a job elsewhere.
-
I'm just going to assume that everyone who defends the school's/church's right to do stuff also agrees with that stuff. Because that is fashionable right now.
-
Closed (for now) per request of the OP. I'll bring it up with the rest of the mods to see if it could or should be reopened.
-
The brain trust has spoken.
Carry on.
-
The brain trust has spoken.
Carry on.
[tinfoil] <---- Mistrust of the brain trust.
-
[tinfoil] <---- Mistrust of the brain trust.
So this 'brain trust' of whom he speaks is Pinky and the Brain, who came up with the Pink'n'Twilight theme last weekend!? Please!
Homey don't think so! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bpf_WIn51Q
-
Think what you want to think. It is not just me.
Currently, about 23% of the US population is Catholic. Less than 30% attend church.
Catholic school population is down well over 50% from 1980.
Philadelphia is currently closing 33 Catholic schools.
The Rockford IL Diocese is closing 57 parishes.
Nationally, 1,200 Catholic schools have been closed in the last 11 years.
Students enrolled in US Catholic schools have dropped 642,000 in 10 years, to 2,000,000.
Now, add in all the deserved bad press where the RCC has completely mishandled the priest abuse crisis, and it is obvious that Catholics have been voting with their feet and leaving.
My assessment is quite accurate. The RCC is the poster child of what not to do these days.
You completly missed the point.
-
You completly missed the point.
Not about viability.
-
Their issues WRT viability have to do with them becoming more "of this world" than they should have. Things like tolerance of pederasty in the priesthood are because they took their eye off the Biblical ball and let worldly concerns take over. Decline in school attendance probably has as much to do with economic factors keeping parents from paying for it, but also likely has to do with a lot of the Catholic schools become less "Catholic" and more mainstream liberal propaganda mills.
Becoming more "of this world" will only serve to further alienate people. Changing their doctrine to allow for artificial contraception, artificial conception methods, or anything else might bring a few people in, but would lose them orders of magnitude more.
FTR - I am not Catholic. I have a lot of issues with their doctrine and would not ever choose to join them. But that is seperate from the issues above.
-
Their issues WRT viability have to do with them becoming more "of this world" than they should have. Things like tolerance of pederasty in the priesthood are because they took their eye off the Biblical ball and let worldly concerns take over. Decline in school attendance probably has as much to do with economic factors keeping parents from paying for it, but also likely has to do with a lot of the Catholic schools become less "Catholic" and more mainstream liberal propaganda mills.
Becoming more "of this world" will only serve to further alienate people. Changing their doctrine to allow for artificial contraception, artificial conception methods, or anything else might bring a few people in, but would lose them orders of magnitude more.
FTR - I am not Catholic. I have a lot of issues with their doctrine and would not ever choose to join them. But that is seperate from the issues above.
That.
We have known for some time that as the mainline Protestant denominations skew more and more to the left, their numbers drop lower and lower. This makes perfect sense, of course. If church becomes less church, people have less reason to go to a church that doesn't offer as much churchiness. If the church has become so un-church that it's just like every other cultural institution, people will just go to every other cultural institution. Why shouldn't they?
IOW, if the Catholics are losing numbers, the smart money blames Catholic liberalism, not Catholic conservatism.
-
IOW, if the Catholics are losing numbers, the smart money blames Catholic liberalism, not Catholic conservatism.
aaarrrrrrggggghhhhhhh!
i agree
with great reluctance
cradle mackerel snapper here