Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Ryan in Maine on August 12, 2013, 10:20:55 PM
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That's basically what they are right? An escalating Terry stop?
Most folks can determine that it was unconstitutional if they've read the words of the 4A. Some folks could even see the 5A implications.
But not Bloomberg. He is appealing the decision. Errr I mean the city is appealing the decision.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/13/nyregion/stop-and-frisk-practice-violated-rights-judge-rules.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/13/nyregion/stop-and-frisk-practice-violated-rights-judge-rules.html)
That stats that the NYCLU cites from the NYPD's own reports show a pretty obvious upscaling over the years.
http://www.nyclu.org/content/stop-and-frisk-data (http://www.nyclu.org/content/stop-and-frisk-data)
The sad part is that it seems it's only coming to a stop because of the racial profiling aspect. Though I could just be mistaken since minorities, being the primary target, also have provided the primary response.
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They aren't really Terry stops, because they aren't conducted on the basis of any genuine "reasonable suspicion based on clearly articulable facts."
The NYPD also established quotas for them, and that was already against a state law.
Unfortunately, however, they aren't coming to a stop. They are going to be "modified" under the supervision of a special referee appointed by the judge. A referee who happens to be a former prosecutor. Why do I see visions of foxes guarding hen houses?
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Unfortunately, however, they aren't coming to a stop. They are going to be "modified" under the supervision of a special referee appointed by the judge. A referee who happens to be a former prosecutor. Why do I see visions of foxes guarding hen houses?
Well of course. It's only evil because it targets minorities, you see. If we just increase the program and get more frisky with the white folk, then there's no discrimination!
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One of my Dad's friends would probably SEEK OUT these stop-and-frisk of stops.
You see, he was one of those rare individuals immune to the effects of poison ivy . . . >:D
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One of my Dad's friends would probably SEEK OUT these stop-and-frisk of stops.
You see, he was one of those rare individuals immune to the effects of poison ivy . . . >:D
oh my
what an evil mind
and i am another one of those immune folks >:D [popcorn]
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Just how rare is that? I've used that immunity myself a time or two in my younger days.
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Just how rare is that? I've used that immunity myself a time or two in my younger days.
don't know how rare
got a good beating for handing another scout a hand full of leaves when nature called
it was the only time i deliberately used my power for evil
so far
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So.....What happens if you say no to the frisk?
Arrest?
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So.....What happens if you say no to the frisk?
Arrest?
You get beaten, tazered, and shot.
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I know it's NYC but still.....I'm a little floored. They were just walking around frisking random folks for no reason other then a bulge.........for a decade? And no one told them to FOAD?
To hell with the microwave radar van. Who cares if they x-ray you when they can just stop you and frisk you. My Army buddies didn't understand why I refused to go to NY on our recent 3 day pass. The whole place is BS.
How much do you think we'd have to offer Putin to nuke it?.....It's the only way to be sure.
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don't know how rare
got a good beating for handing another scout a hand full of leaves when nature called
it was the only time i deliberately used my power for evil
so far
I'm rather curious to its rarity as I am yet another one immune.
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I'm immune to poison ivy, too.
As for Terry stops, I won't be happy until all forms are declared unconstitutional.
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Well of course. It's only evil because it targets minorities, you see. If we just increase the program and get more frisky with the white folk, then there's no discrimination!
I know it's NYC but still.....I'm a little floored. They were just walking around frisking random folks for no reason other then a bulge.........for a decade? And no one told them to FOAD?
To hell with the microwave radar van. Who cares if they x-ray you when they can just stop you and frisk you. My Army buddies didn't understand why I refused to go to NY on our recent 3 day pass. The whole place is BS.
How much do you think we'd have to offer Putin to nuke it?.....It's the only way to be sure.
You must understand that NYC is special, full of special people. IOW, liberals and lefties live there in great concentration. Liberals who find black and brown people scary and want them gone from Manhattan and any neighborhood outside Manhattan they might want to gentrify. Since liberals are deemed GOOD by merely holding GOOD intentions and positions(1) they can do this without being discriminatory, because discrimination is BAD done only by BAD conservatives. And those BAD people need their faces rubbed into the sort of "diversity" of the surly, poor, and criminally-inclined minorities that have been cleansed from Manhattan.
Besides, lefties want the cool urban experience without being mugged. Heck, they DESERVE to live in a "vibrant" neighborhood without too many scary poor minorities due to the fact that they are of the left. Matter of fact, they consider it their right to not have to pay for excellent private schools and instead set up a dreadfully complex alternate/shadow NYC public school system that has enough bureaucratic and testing barriers to entry such that they can keep out all the dumb underprivileged minorities.
(1) "Minorities are oppressed by white people and ought to get affirmative action, welfare, and free daycare Head Start. I love black people as a 'people.' <insert air quotes> Of course, individual black people who did not attend Columbia University with me are pretty scary."
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I'm immune to poison ivy, too.
As for Terry stops, I won't be happy until all forms are declared unconstitutional.
Add me to the immunity list. Interesting how many of us there are here at APS.
As to Terry stops, if they were actually done as SCOTUS authorized in the Terry decision, it wouldn't be a problem. Expanding it and twisting the original intent of the decision is where problems have cropped up. I don't have an issue with an officer observing what is apparent to be a guy casing a stop-and-rob at midnight and doing a Terry stop. But when you are doing a Terry stop on a guy because he's walking in a neighborhood after dark, or wearing a hoodie, etc., it's gone too far.
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Add me to the immunity list. Interesting how many of us there are here at APS.
As to Terry stops, if they were actually done as SCOTUS authorized in the Terry decision, it wouldn't be a problem. Expanding it and twisting the original intent of the decision is where problems have cropped up. I don't have an issue with an officer observing what is apparent to be a guy casing a stop-and-rob at midnight and doing a Terry stop. But when you are doing a Terry stop on a guy because he's walking in a neighborhood after dark, or wearing a hoodie, etc., it's gone too far.
Or a non-alcohol-or-drug, non-collision, traffic stop.
I still think any form of Terry stop would have the founders turning in their graves but regardless of what the standard is, it takes an individual cop to abuse it. Just because the department or the courts would let them get away with it does not mean the street cop actually has to do it.
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I've got an acquired immunity, working with poison oak daily for 4 years in sleeveless T's - get used to it or suffer.
How many millions of people are in New York? And the cops were able to do this for ~10 years? It's almost unbelievable.
Too lazy to look up links. Radio boy was giving out stat's on percentage of crimes committed by race. Seems as if, in New York, greater than 80% of the major crimes are committed by other-than-white races.
Personally, I think these stops were unconstitutional and need to be stopped. This *expletive deleted*it is getting out of hand. I'd sure hate to see it spread; the results would not be pretty. Law abiding people dodging & hiding from the cops everywhere they go. Or not. Either way, not pretty.
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It went on for so long because 1. it's effective and 2. it happened in a rich white liberal city to poor black and brown folks that the liberals are afeared of.
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You must understand that NYC is special, full of special people. IOW, liberals and lefties live there in great concentration. Liberals who find black and brown people scary and want them gone from Manhattan and any neighborhood outside Manhattan they might want to gentrify. Since liberals are deemed GOOD by merely holding GOOD intentions and positions(1) they can do this without being discriminatory, because discrimination is BAD done only by BAD conservatives. And those BAD people need their faces rubbed into the sort of "diversity" of the surly, poor, and criminally-inclined minorities that have been cleansed from Manhattan.
Besides, lefties want the cool urban experience without being mugged. Heck, they DESERVE to live in a "vibrant" neighborhood without too many scary poor minorities due to the fact that they are of the left. Matter of fact, they consider it their right to not have to pay for excellent private schools and instead set up a dreadfully complex alternate/shadow NYC public school system that has enough bureaucratic and testing barriers to entry such that they can keep out all the dumb underprivileged minorities.
(1) "Minorities are oppressed by white people and ought to get affirmative action, welfare, and free daycare Head Start. I love black people as a 'people.' <insert air quotes> Of course, individual black people who did not attend Columbia University with me are pretty scary."
You forgot to mention that they love the "diversity" of having various ethnic restaurants and shops in their neighborhoods, as long as the owners and workers go back to their hovels in anywhere-but-Manhatten to live. "Ethnics" can only work in Manhatten, but live there ?? Pfffftttt.
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It went on for so long because 1. it's effective and 2. it happened in a rich white liberal city to poor black and brown folks that the liberals are afeared of.
Bingo.
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Bingo.
do you squint or close your eyes completely to make that work?
you pale folks are a minority in nyc
and rich? hmmmm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City
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do you squint or close your eyes completely to make that work?
you pale folks are a minority in nyc
and rich? hmmmm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City
Manhattan is majority white/jewish. Brooklyn & Queens are not quite majority white and have gotten whiter since 2000. Staten Island is super-majority white. Bronx is super-majority Non-asian minority.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_profile_of_New_York_City#By_borough
Also, affluent (UMC+) white/jewish liberals wield the most power, so calling it a "rich white liberal city" is a fair cop.
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2 boroughs outa 5 and a 44% total pale population and you claim its rich white city? you see what the poverty rate is?
and lookie here
each borough that had the most stops last year — Brooklyn’s 75th Pct. (East New York), the Bronx’s 40th Pct. (Mott Haven), Queens’ 103rd Pct. (Jamaica), Staten Island’s 120th Pct. (St. George), and Manhattan’s 23rd Pct. (East Harlem).
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nypd-cops-wear-body-cams-article-1.1425121#ixzz2bzUWnyle
you really wanna know why it went on so long? you guys had it 1/2 right
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/16/stop-and-frisk-poll-shows-nypd-racially-divided_n_1788576.html
bold mine
The Quinnipiac University survey found that 57 percent of white city voters approve of the Police Department's practice of detaining and sometimes searching anyone officers deem suspicious. But only 25 percent of black voters surveyed said they approve of the policy, which affects many more minorities than white residents. Of those surveyed, 53 percent of Hispanics said they approve of the practice.
The NYPD stopped close to 700,000 people on the street last year. Nearly 87 percent were black or Hispanic, and about half were frisked. About 10 percent were arrested.
Mayor Michael Bloomberg argues that the program is an indispensable tool in the fight against illegal guns. But critics argue the practice unfairly targets minorities.
Overall approval for stop and frisk was at 45 percent, while disapproval was at 50 percent. Some 64 percent of voters said they approve of Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly's job performance. His approval among whites was at 77 percent, while among blacks, it was at 51 percent.
and there is this
According to the latest Marist poll, which is the only indication of where we hold in 2013, Jewish registered voters make up 15 percent of the overall registered voters in NYC. In party affiliation - Jews make up 16% of the electorate among registered Democratic voters and 21% among Republicans.
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It went on for so long because 1. it's effective and 2. it happened in a rich white liberal city to poor black and brown folks that the liberals are afeared of.
Hammer... meet nail.
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Manhattan is majority white/jewish. Brooklyn & Queens are not quite majority white and have gotten whiter since 2000. Staten Island is super-majority white. Bronx is super-majority Non-asian minority.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_profile_of_New_York_City#By_borough
Also, affluent (UMC+) white/jewish liberals wield the most power, so calling it a "rich white liberal city" is a fair cop.
Ummmm.. I don't see Jewish listed on your reference. Can you back up that claim? Or explain the significance of it?
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My brother was a cop in NYC when the stop/frisk policy started under Rudy, He loved it.
All the cops loved it.
Basically, cops know what the neighborhood criminals look like.
You stop the saggy pants dude with the long T shirt on - most times he had a warrant or contraband.
If you didn't like it you could choose not to dress like a criminal.
But, yeah Unconstitutional, everyone knows it, but NY gun laws are unconstitutional too. You would support stop and frisk if you lived there because it hampers the criminals. Unless you had a ccw - but you couldn't because you need to be Trump to get a NYC ccw.
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Ummmm.. I don't see Jewish listed on your reference. Can you back up that claim? Or explain the significance of it?
Marist poll was added
damn phone
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My brother was a cop in NYC when the stop/frisk policy started under Rudy, He loved it.
All the cops loved it.
Basically, cops know what the neighborhood criminals look like.
You stop the saggy pants dude with the long T shirt on - most times he had a warrant or contraband.
If you didn't like it you could choose not to dress like a criminal.
But, yeah Unconstitutional, everyone knows it, but NY gun laws are unconstitutional too. You would support stop and frisk if you lived there because it hampers the criminals. Unless you had a ccw - but you couldn't because you need to be Trump to get a NYC ccw.
No, I would never support it under any circumstances. Violating one protection of the Constitution as a response to the problems created by violating another makes no sense. The solution to criminals on the street is to keep them in prison. Law enforcement and government love the power that high crime rates give them so they will never put a stop to crime. Crime is easily controlled by simply putting criminals in prison for long periods of time and allowing those of us not in prison to have the tools to defend ourselves. That is the solution, Terry stops are not.
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You would support stop and frisk if you lived there because it hampers the criminals.
winner winner chicken dinner
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Is that really the only criteria we use for legality or morality of actions? "We think it'll hamper criminals"?
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Is that really the only criteria we use for legality or morality of actions? "We think it'll hamper criminals"?
the only one? no
but i bet its high on the list for folks in a cut your way in shoot your way out hood
its less academic for them
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the only one? no
but i bet its high on the list for folks in a cut your way in shoot your way out hood
its less academic for them
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
Speech in the House of Commons (18 November, 1783).
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the only one? no
but i bet its high on the list for folks in a cut your way in shoot your way out hood
its less academic for them
You're adorable. No. I've lived in bad hoods. I wouldn't have allowed it. and the people that live in those hoods tend to not be fond of the local po-po either. The folks that push, and allow, this kind of thing live in the good hood's near the cut your way in, shoot your way out hoods and no they can't *yet* build the walls polish ghetto's had.
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You're adorable. No. I've lived in bad hoods. I wouldn't have allowed it. and the people that live in those hoods tend to not be fond of the local po-po either. The folks that push, and allow, this kind of thing live in the good hood's near the cut your way in, shoot your way out hoods and no they can't *yet* build the walls polish ghetto's had.
your experience differs from mine. when the suburban folks complained about the roadblocks that kept em away from the stop and cop in trinidad nw dc the locals were not amused. they had gotten tired of putting the kids to bed in the bathtub. the only locals miffed were in "bidnez"
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murders are 50 percent below the level they were 12 years ago
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/nation/july-dec13/stopfrisk_08-13.html
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your experience differs from mine. when the suburban folks complained about the roadblocks that kept em away from the stop and cop in trinidad nw dc the locals were not amused. they had gotten tired of putting the kids to bed in the bathtub. the only locals miffed were in "bidnez"
Yeah, when the cops tried to do an increased patrol (much less a stop and frisk) in South St. Pete they started stoning cop cars. the cops had to pull out before riots started (again) and leave us poor white college kids to fend for ourselves and/or run home to mommy.
My anecdote is as valid as yours.
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murders are 50 percent below the level they were 12 years ago
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/nation/july-dec13/stopfrisk_08-13.html
Now I know I don't live in NYC, but I don't really give a *expletive deleted*it about the crime rate. I can protect myself from criminals.Not so much the NYPD.
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Murder rates have been declining nation wide.
But aside from that, I'm sure if we surgically installed GPS trackers inside everyone's body it'd be a lot easier to figure out who was around when murders were committed. If cops could barge into houses without warrants and torture confessions out of people they'd probably close a lot more cases. Heck, if we start executing people for petty theft and vandalism I bet we'd seriously cut down on street crime. If we had daily forced calisthenics tens of thousands of fatties wouldn't die from heart disease.
So f***ing what? The whole point of the Constitution's limits on .gov power is that there are some things that shouldn't be doneeven if they might prove effective.
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http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2013/08/13/us/13reuters-usa-newark-police.html?ref=stopandfrisk&_r=0
some stop and frisk=good
some opinions
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/08/21/nyregion/stop-and-frisk-voices.html?ref=stopandfrisk
and there is this too
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/08/20/nyregion/new-yorkers-views-of-the-mayor-and-the-police.html?ref=nyregion
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<---------Didn't bother to click links.
You don't get it. It doesn't matter if it works. It doesn't matter if the entire damn city voted unanimously to do it. The WHOLE FRIGGIN POINT of limits on .gov is to stop them from doing crap like this. Of course it works. That's why tyrants do it. Hence needing to explicitly tell .gov that they can't. NYPD needs to get told to FOAD.
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Levant/dogmush/ccsd
you're all right.
There is a reason I do not live in NY, its run by ghetto politics.
The gun laws stink so bad that California is a gun nut paradise in comparison - its totally corrupt, the COTUS has no jurisdiction, the only law is money and power.
Of course its morally bankrupt and wrong and freaking stupid, its New York City.
Wiener ( carlos danger ) will probably be their next Mayor. New Yorkers can not have the conversation we are having here. They have no clue as to what COTUS is.
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Interestingly the judge did not eliminate stop and frisk and newark is amongst several citys doing it with the blessing of the aclu et al
damn phone
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On the plus side, NYC frisks are likely to be targeted at more worthy folks than TSA frisks.
Still, it seems like much of modern police practice is geared towards doing the opposite of Peel's Principles whenever possible.
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So apparently, during this years-in-the-making gun trafficking bust, they got audio of one of the suspects citing his fear of the stop/frisk procedures (which is the term I'll be using since it's been pointed out that, no, it is not a Terry stop!) as well as citing a couple other of Bloomberg's "common sense gun laws." Wonder what kind of deal he got for that... [tinfoil]
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23761100 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23761100)
A wiretap showed the defendants feared becoming ensnared by the police department's stop-and-frisk policy, Mr Kelly said.
A federal judge this month ruled the aggressive street policing tactic unconstitutional and discriminatory. Mr Bloomberg's administration has appealed the ruling.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/19/gunrunners-smuggled-firearms-into-nyc-inside-luggage-on-discount-buses/ (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/19/gunrunners-smuggled-firearms-into-nyc-inside-luggage-on-discount-buses/)
"The problem is that the gun laws passed now, so it's like now I can only buy a gun from a gun store every 30 days," Campbell complained in one conversation, according to an indictment. "So I had to, like, pay different people to keep buying different guns."
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/19/justice/new-york-illegal-guns/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/19/justice/new-york-illegal-guns/index.html)
"Year after year, guns flow into our city from states that don't have commonsense gun laws that keep guns out of the hands of criminals. North and South Carolina, for instance, still have weak laws that allow criminals and traffickers to easily buy guns," Bloomberg said.
The 254 guns sold included high-capacity assault weapons, a fully automatic machine gun, and guns that are commonly used in violent crimes. Those included pistols and guns that can hold magazines with 30 or more rounds, according to Bloomberg.
Derp!
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So let me get this straight - if I carried a gun under a nice suit in NYC, I would have nothing to fear from the cops ???
=|
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some stop and frisk=good
Sure. When they have a warrant from a judge or probable cause.
I'm quite sure that any police chief that implemented this where I live would be fired within a day. It would probably help crime stats if we threw all poor people into ovens. Doesn't mean it's the right or ethical thing to do.
With respect, CSD, nothing wrong with trolling the APS folks here, we need a court jester... I know you don't take the position of "anything good for the police is good for the country". If you do, you may want to take a few moments to reflect on that.
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How many of those 254 guns were used in crimes?
And a full-auto? I wonder how they got that.
And finally, IIRC, the way they broke this case is that gunrunning knucklehead either posted videos on Yousetube or Facesbooks.
And finally, finally, are they going to prosecute Federally either him for lying on the 4473 (if he bought the guns he had use fake ID showing he was a resident of, IIRC NC), or he used straw purchasers and are he and they going to be prosecuted for violating Federal Gun laws? Or is he simply going to to charged under either NYS and/or NYC gun laws. Makes a big difference. If it's only NYS and/or NYC, then Obama/Biden et als push to ban guns should be pointed out to be the giant lie that it is.
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And a full-auto? I wonder how they got that.
If done legally, it was bought by someone who took 6 months to go through all the paperwork and background checks, who then sold it FTF illegally, at which point the illegal buyer illegally transported it interstate (Fed Law), then illegally entered NY without reporting it (NY State Law), then illegally entered NYC without reporting it (NYC law).
Already have laws. Lots of laws.
And that's if it was bought legally, as Bloomberg is attempting to insinuate with his lax gun laws comment.
More than likely, it's a homemade chop-job of a MAC10 or AK, or a homemade DIAS in an AR. Which then means there's already FedLaws against that. And it has nothing to do with finger-pointing to South Carolina.
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You can't help but wonder how many of these were bought by Bloomberg hacks... again.
Oh wait... here it is:
A large majority of the guns were purchased by an undercover police officer in 45 transactions since 2012, authorities said.
Undercop tells flunky to go to SC, provides the name of stores, or possibly fake ID, and says to buy guns and bring them back.
Yes, if the police send people to break the law, the law will get broken.
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I'm quite sure that any police chief that implemented this where I live would be fired within a day. It would probably help crime stats if we threw all poor people into ovens. Doesn't mean it's the right or ethical thing to do.
No matter the rate of criminality in any particular ethnicity, the 4th Amendment applies.
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No matter the rate of criminality in any particular ethnicity, the 4th Amendment applies.
Thank you! There is no circumstance in the entire world that excuses or allows the government to operate outside of the very document that authorizes their existence. To operate outside of that document is to operate on their own and not as an entity created by the founding document. When they operate on their own they operate as common criminals and need to be treated as such.
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So let me get this straight - if I carried a gun under a nice suit in NYC, I would have nothing to fear from the cops ???
=|
Basically, yes - well dressed men - both black or white - generally get left alone.
I knew a criminal in my old neighborhood, when he was out mugging/robbing people - he would wear a suit. He told me it worked great that the cops never bothered him.
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Sure. When they have a warrant from a judge or probable cause.
I'm quite sure that any police chief that implemented this where I live would be fired within a day. It would probably help crime stats if we threw all poor people into ovens. Doesn't mean it's the right or ethical thing to do.
With respect, CSD, nothing wrong with trolling the APS folks here, we need a court jester... I know you don't take the position of "anything good for the police is good for the country". If you do, you may want to take a few moments to reflect on that.
you didn't read about stop and frisk in newark? and how the aclu et al signed off on it?
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you didn't read about stop and frisk in newark? and how the aclu et al signed off on it?
The ACLU also maintained for a very long time that the Second Amendment guaranteed only a collective right to bear arms, in connection with militia service.
Look where that got them ...
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you didn't read about stop and frisk in newark? and how the aclu et al signed off on it?
Flagrant violations of the Fourth Amendment are wrong, regardless of who signs off on it. You know this.
If they have such a strong feeling, they should get a warrant.
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Even in nyc it was the stopping folf of color that was the issue. Expect to see more not less stop.and frisk. Just more high sun block numbers. Like the tsa does. Only its bad then good now
damn phone
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Even in nyc it was the stopping folf of color that was the issue. Expect to see more not less stop.and frisk. Just more high sun block numbers. Like the tsa does. Only its bad then good now
damn phone
Ah. No. Bad then. Bad now. Fourth Amendment says illegal without probable cause or warrant.
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"A cop has a feeling you're doing something wrong" is probable cause in CSD world.
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Even in nyc it was the stopping folf of color that was the issue. Expect to see more not less stop.and frisk. Just more high sun block numbers. Like the tsa does. Only its bad then good now
damn phone
This is what you don't seem to get.
No matter what the ACLU thinks, no matter what or how a given judge rules on the issue, the PRACTICE OF STOP AND FRISK IS BLATANTLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
It may be permitted without the racial component now, because of the ruling. THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT
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you need to find a judge who agrees though this judge has 2 more cases involving stop and frisk pending
no fourth amendment mentioned
Judge Scheindlin stated in her decision that the city adopted a "policy of indirect racial profiling by targeting racially defined groups for stops based on local crime suspect data." The result, she said, is "the disproportionate and discriminatory stopping of blacks and Hispanics in violation of the Equal Protection Clause" of the Constitution.
i did miss this though
http://www.policymic.com/articles/22375/nyc-stop-and-frisk-policy-ruled-unconstitutional-conservatives-immediately-start-whining
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Yep, you're missing the point.
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Violating the civil rights of minorities at a higher rate than whites :facepalm:
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Well, C&SD seems to think that if you violate everyone's rights equally, it's ok
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As does the judge(s) so far
damn phone
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First, IMO, the stop & frisk tactic is a violation of the 4th amendment.
But, if 80+% of the crimes are committed by OTW (other than white), why is it not "fair" for 80+% of the stops to be of folks who are OTW?
/putting down the pot-stirring ladle
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This is what you don't seem to get.
No matter what the ACLU thinks, no matter what or how a given judge rules on the issue, the PRACTICE OF STOP AND FRISK IS BLATANTLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
It may be permitted without the racial component now, because of the ruling. THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT
Thank you! The Constitution says what it says and means what it says. It's not difficult to understand. It does not matter what any court or any Congress or any judge or any police officer says about anything in the Constitution. It only matters what the Constitution says.
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First, IMO, the stop & frisk tactic is a violation of the 4th amendment.
But, if 80+% of the crimes are committed by OTW (other than white), why is it not "fair" for 80+% of the stops to be of folks who are OTW?
/putting down the pot-stirring ladle
Your opinion is fact. You should strengthen your view. Don't let modern behavioral science influence you. It's ok to call a spade a spade.