Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Angel Eyes on June 22, 2015, 02:15:35 AM
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Pope Francis: if you manufacture weapons, you're not a Christian.
TURIN, Italy (Reuters) - People who manufacture weapons or invest in weapons industries are hypocrites if they call themselves Christian, Pope Francis said on Sunday.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/pope-says-weapons-manufacturers-cant-call-themselves-christian-184139430.html
Perhaps he needs to re-read Luke 22:36 and Joel 3:10.
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It's almost as unchristian as turning a blind eye to a dictator murdering entire nations because there is a tacit understanding that the dictator will not challenge your establishment if you don't challenge his.
Bet those Armenians in 1916 would have liked some Christian arms manufacturers to help. Or the Kurds...
Ban all the guns you want. Until hate is taken from man's heart whatever tool is used will not matter(Rwanda). A good Christian whatevertheheckyouwanttobe protects his flock from those that hate.
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Pope can go *expletive deleted*ck himself. If he can spare the time away from the alter boys.
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So time to start making swords.
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The media tends to twist Francis's words to the left. Perhaps this is another such case.
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Being a protestant, "he's not the boss of me".
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Being a Methodist, NO ONE'S the boss of me... :rofl:
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Being a Methodist, NO ONE'S the boss of me... :rofl:
I thought Methodists answered to their class meeting.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-2C19gzbTBHY%2FUEkOvrM0I7I%2FAAAAAAAACSw%2FiHeiBUAYA1w%2Fs1600%2Foxford.gif&hash=3ec141ffe813988aa04a819b6eab8a065f418ac9)
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Pope Francis: if you manufacture weapons, you're not a Christian.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/pope-says-weapons-manufacturers-cant-call-themselves-christian-184139430.html
Perhaps he needs to re-read Luke 22:36 and Joel 3:10.
The pope needs to google the word 'Pharisee,' because he's been acting like one.
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Further evidence that the pope selection process is not divine.
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The media tends to twist Francis's words to the left. Perhaps this is another such case.
It would be interesting to see what he actually said, and what the actual context is.
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Can't find a full transcript anywhere, the quote from the article is as full as is available anywhere.
"It makes me think of ... people, managers, businessmen who call themselves Christian and they manufacture weapons. That leads to a bit a distrust, doesn't it?"
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I was raised Catholic, and went to Catholic elementary school for grades 1-8. The priests I encountered back then all seemed to be good-natured, honorable, pious men who had a calling to help; in short, they were everything you'd expect a parish priest to be, and AFAIK, NONE of the abuse scandals touched my school or parish. I remember our parish priests asking for prayers for the conversion of the communists, and for more prayers for those martyred by the commies, Moslems, and others.
This pope . . . this pope . . . every time he opens his mouth, it seems he has few if any of the virtues of the parish priests I knew growing up. =(
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"The great powers had the pictures of the railway lines that brought the trains to the concentration camps like Auschwitz to kill Jews, Christians, homosexuals, everybody. Why didn't they bomb (the railway lines)?"
I caught a few minutes of Rush on the way back from lunch. He mentioned this quote and thought it was a bit at odds with the other quote. How can you condemn gun owners/manufacturers and then ask that they bomb the rail ways?
I don't know that the quotes say he doesn't think they are Christian, but that is the interpretation being repeated. I don't know what other point he would be trying to make.
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Something related that Rush brought up:
Rove: Only Way to Reduce Violence Is Remove Guns from Society
I mean basically the only way to guarantee that we will dramatically reduce acts of violence involving guns is to basically remove guns from society, and until somebody gets enough “oomph” to repeal the Second Amendment, that’s not going to happen.
http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/rove-only-way-reduce-violence-remove-guns-society
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Something related that Rush brought up:
Rove: Only Way to Reduce Violence Is Remove Guns from Societyhttp://www.truthrevolt.org/news/rove-only-way-reduce-violence-remove-guns-society
I mean basically the only way to guarantee that we will dramatically reduce acts of violence involving guns is to basically remove guns from society, and until somebody gets enough “oomph” to repeal the Second Amendment, that’s not going to happen
I was watching the program Rove was on yesterday. Rove was NOT advocating that either guns ought to be banned, or confiscated. He was saying that before it could happen, the second amendment would have to be repealed, but he said that IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
I know that Rove is either loved or hated, even amongst right-wingers. Either way one ought to understand the full context of what he said. I have seen mis-quotes about this and I have heard bits taken out of context to make it seem he was advocating gun banning. I'm tired of it. And this is NOT aimed at MechAg94 it is a comment aimed at the innernetz ( [tinfoil] :facepalm: ) in general.
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This pope . . . this pope . . . every time he opens his mouth, it seems he has few if any of the virtues of the parish priests I knew growing up. =(
Every time he opens his mouth, he's misquoted. Nearly every time I hear about something Francis says, it sounds solidly left-of-center. And then I find out that his actual words, in context, were in the center or center-right. I don't know if the meed-juh have just convinced themselves that he's on their side, or if they are trying to dispirit conservatives by making him seem that way, or if it's both.
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I was watching the program Rove was on yesterday. Rove was NOT advocating that either guns ought to be banned, or confiscated. He was saying that before it could happen, the second amendment would have to be repealed, but he said that IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
I know that Rove is either loved or hated, even amongst right-wingers. Either way one ought to understand the full context of what he said. I have seen mis-quotes about this and I have heard bits taken out of context to make it seem he was advocating gun banning. I'm tired of it. And this is NOT aimed at MechAg94 it is a comment aimed at the innernetz ( [tinfoil] :facepalm: ) in general.
Either way, I think it was a foolish thing to say. If all guns were magically gone tomorrow, the violence in society would likely increase quite a bit. Even if you restrict it to just the govt, the same would happen.
On the other side of that, the 2nd Amendment doesn't really apply to criminals.... or I mean to say that laws have little effect on those that are not law abiding.
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Didn't Cain use a rock?
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Either way, I think it was a foolish thing to say.
It was stated very inartfully, IMHO. Had he expressed it more precisely I don't believe it would be as tendentious as it has been.
If all guns were magically gone tomorrow, the violence in society would likely increase quite a bit. Even if you restrict it to just the govt, the same would happen.
On the other side of that, the 2nd Amendment doesn't really apply to criminals.... or I mean to say that laws have little effect on those that are not law abiding.
True and true. With perhaps as many as one million defensive uses of guns per year in America, I think you could count on that number as a base for the number in increased murders and other violent crimes. That might easily increase as criminals increased their activities as they discovered how successful they could be.
And no laws apply to criminals.
I was listening to Faux snews' Bill O'Reilly repeat his opinion their should be a gun registry today on his show. He keeps responding that people who point out its flaws are being "theoretical." ??? I don't think O'Reilly knows that there have been several major court decisions that state that you can't actually force "criminals" to register their guns, as it violates their 5th amendment rights. Therefor, any criminal thus arrested solely for an unregistered gun would be released by the judge if O'Reilly's law were to be actually enacted, as it would be a violation of those aforesaid court decisions afirming 5th amendment protections.
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It was stated very inartfully, IMHO. Had he expressed it more precisely I don't believe it would be as tendentious as it has been.
That is a pattern with the current pontiff. And even those of us outside the fold are noticing.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
I will just leave this here.
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The drum beat for thought crime laws also continues.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/22/charleston-hate-crime_n_7637886.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000013
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That is a pattern with the current pontiff. And even those of us outside the fold are noticing.
I had been referring to Karl Rove with my statement.
For the Pope, I just think it is foolish to speak against guns/weapons at all. IMO, it shows a decided lack of knowledge or application of history and military history.
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I had been referring to Karl Rove with my statement.
For the Pope, I just think it is foolish to speak against guns/weapons at all. IMO, it shows a decided lack of knowledge or application of history and military history.
I doubt that at all- he's very knowledgeable.
There have been many popes in the past that supported small arms bans on the peasant class.
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I doubt that at all- he's very knowledgeable.
There have been many popes in the past that supported small arms bans on the peasant class.
the DeMecici popes, perhaps? Very much entangled with the ruling class.
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I found this on "Guns.com". Interesting that an individual this well protected thinks gunmakers are bad people.
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I found this on "Guns.com". Interesting that an individual this well protected thinks gunmakers are bad people.
Well, halberd production is fairly specialized these days. ;)
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Well, halberd production is fairly specialized these days. ;)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Guard
The Swiss Guard use traditional weapons, such as a sword and a halberd, as well as modern weapons such as the SIG P220 and Glock 19 pistols, the Steyr TMP machine pistol and submachine guns like the Heckler & Koch MP5A3
I wonder if the Pontiff wants his guards to give up all that cool stuff. I'm guessing not.
And just for fun:
(https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/7NaNA4jxQ0XZcQIqu4jw7w--/YXBwaWQ9c3JjaGRkO2g9NzUwO3E9OTU7dz02MDA-/http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e42/MihoshiK/spacebattles/SwissGuard.jpg)
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I found this on "Guns.com". Interesting that an individual this well protected thinks gunmakers are bad people.
I really don't think that's what he's saying.
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I think that's exactly what he is saying;
TURIN, Italy, June 21 (Reuters) - People who manufacture weapons or invest in weapons industries are hypocrites if they call themselves Christian, Pope Francis said on Sunday.
http://www.trust.org/item/20150621183811-et1rd
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He would be better aimed talking about politicians and lobbyists who promote and profit from conflict, not just the manufacturers.
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I think that's exactly what he is saying;
TURIN, Italy, June 21 (Reuters) - People who manufacture weapons or invest in weapons industries are hypocrites if they call themselves Christian, Pope Francis said on Sunday.
http://www.trust.org/item/20150621183811-et1rd
Did you actually read the quote in the article you just linked? Because even if we accept that translation as accurate and strip it of context the quote is still not what the headline claims.
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Did you actually read the quote in the article you just linked? Because even if we accept that translation as accurate and strip it of context the quote is still not what the headline claims.
They sensationalized it. He called them bad Christians.
However, I'm amused by the hypocrisy of saying that and then turning around and asking why no one bombed the rail lines.
I guess the Pope is a bad Christian, too.
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They sensationalized it. He called them bad Christians.
However, I'm amused by the hypocrisy of saying that and then turning around and asking why no one bombed the rail lines.
I guess the Pope is a bad Christian, too.
No, he really didn't.
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No, he really didn't.
No, really, he did:
"It makes me think of ... people, managers, businessmen who call themselves Christian and they manufacture weapons. That leads to a bit a distrust, doesn't it?" he said to applause.
He also criticised those who invest in weapons industries, saying "duplicity is the currency of today ... they say one thing and do another."
Fostering distrust and being duplicitous doesn't make you a bad Christian?
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No, really, he did:
Fostering distrust and being duplicitous doesn't make you a bad Christian?
He appears to have been talking about political trust in a more generalized sense, and then observed "When people do X it leads to other people having doubts about their trustworthiness." He did not say "You should not trust people who do X." Making the observation "When people do X, other people react in Y way" is not a moral judgement or recommendation.
For the second, he specified people who say one thing and then do another. Hypocritical may have been a better word choice (or translation?) but either way it's essentially a tautology.
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He appears to have been talking about political trust in a more generalized sense, and then observed "When people do X it leads to other people having doubts about their trustworthiness." He did not say "You should not trust people who do X." Making the observation "When people do X, other people react in Y way" is not a moral judgement or recommendation.
For the second, he specified people who say one thing and then do another. Hypocritical may have been a better word choice (or translation?) but either way it's essentially a tautology.
As it is reported, it is clear he is saying Christians ought not to be manufacturing weapons because it leads to distrust. The statement (as reported) is unambiguous- he's making a clear denunciation of calling yourself a Christian but making weapons.
And yes, (as it was reported) he was calling people who invest in weapons manufacturers and call themselves Christians hypocrites. You don't think a hypocrite is a bad Christian?
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As it is reported, it is clear he is saying Christians ought not to be manufacturing weapons because it leads to distrust. The statement (as reported) is unambiguous- he's making a clear denunciation of calling yourself a Christian but making weapons.
And yes, (as it was reported) he was calling people who invest in weapons manufacturers and call themselves Christians hypocrites. You don't think a hypocrite is a bad Christian?
You are assuming facts not in evidence. Saying "doing X can lead to people having distrust of you" is not the same as "Doing X is bad" or even "People distrusting you is a bad thing." Saying "If your statements and action are at odds you are a hypocrite" and then giving an example of that sort of scenario is not the same as saying anyone who does the actions given in the scenario is a hypocrite.
You're making assumptions about context that are unjustified. I don't know if the pope was or was not making condemnations of people who are involved in the arms trade, or what specifications he may have been putting on that. For example, saying "I think drug dealers are bad" is not the same as "I think pharmacists are bad" even though in both cases the person in question is selling people drugs.
When you read a media report about this pope's words, your first reaction should be "In what way is the media twisting and distorting his actual words to bolster their agenda by attempting to show that he supports it?"
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in my ever so humble, but studied opinion, this Pope is a communist community organizer. Just happens to be ordained. Kinda reminds me of barack hussein, in so many ways.
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Every time he opens his mouth, he's misquoted. Nearly every time I hear about something Francis says, it sounds solidly left-of-center. And then I find out that his actual words, in context, were in the center or center-right. I don't know if the meed-juh have just convinced themselves that he's on their side, or if they are trying to dispirit conservatives by making him seem that way, or if it's both.
Was the AP misrepresenting the Vatican's (and by extension, the Pope's) position when it reported that the Vatican signed a treaty with the "State of Palestine?"
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in my ever so humble, but studied opinion, this Pope is a communist community organizer. Just happens to be ordained. Kinda reminds me of barack hussein, in so many ways.
Yes. He's pretty much an obama in a pope hat.