Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: K Frame on January 11, 2024, 07:08:48 AM
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I've always wondered about this because I've heard people over the years say "that's upside down" or "that's not installed to code."
I know in my house my outlets are installed ground down, but here in my office, they're installed ground up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNj75gJVxcE
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It seems most appliances with 90 degree plugs, and things like my Netgear WiFi boosters, are universally designed with the ground down. So in a residential context I think you should put the ground downward.
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Did not watch the whole 18 friggin minutes.
Mine are all ground down, as well as the recharging outlets for electric carts in every store I've been in.
I would personally prefer they were gound up for two reasons. It's easier to orient the plug with the ground pin visible as you manipulate it, and if the plug isn't in all the way, a conductor falling on it won't form a short circuit on the "live" terminals.
I only noticed this recently because of a mix of circumstances in one outlet I have. Didn't short out because I caught the danger in time, but now I keep an eye on things like that,
I suppose you could say it's "paranoid" (a cheapassed term for anything you don't like), but no less paranoid than the "dictum" that with switches, down must be off. This, on the theory (I was told) that something falling on the switch would turn it off, rather than turn something on unexpectedly.
I was designing a house for myself in Boulder, and one of my requirements was that outlets had to be about four feet up from the floor. Didn't get that far with it, but I notice there's a doohicky on the market now which brings floor outlets up to more or less tabletop level.
Sumbinch. How about that?
Sorry, but I ain't watchin' no 18 friggen minute video for something that can be covered in about three minutes.
Terry, 230RN
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Sorry, but I ain't watchin' no 18 friggen minute video for something that can be covered in about three minutes.
Terry, 230RN
I think there is some sort of thing with Youtube that videos need to be over 10 minutes. I have noticed plenty of videos before where a 30 second comment is milked for several minutes of pointless background before getting to the point.
My youtube feed at work was recommending videos on Voyager that had eye catching titles. If you tried to watch them, you get 30 minutes or more of the history of it and then the attention grabber title is never even addressed. Most of the video seems to be rehashed History Channel style content.
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"Sorry, but I ain't watchin' no 18 friggen minute video for something that can be covered in about three minutes."
And yet, you spent 20 minutes typing out that screed?
:rofl:
There's a LOT of background discussion and information not directly relating to the Up/Down orientation question. Actually, some surprisingly good information.
But, there's one thing I'm discovering from this guy's other videos...
He's banging the drum REALLY REALLY REALLY hard for the ELECTRIFY EVERYTHING, YOU STUPID BASTARDS!
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Three words: Bait, and, and switch.
I've noticed the same thing with a lot of clicky articles myself. A petty violation of Commandment 09 (depending on source), but is a telling symptom of overall ethical code.
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No. Not bait and switch.
FFS... ;/
The additional information supports the discussion of the up/down orientation, but again, isn't directly related to the primary question that starts the discussion.
It's not a question of well, "we started on this topic, I'm bored, *expletive deleted*ck you, I'm going to talk about something completely unrelated now, and again, *expletive deleted*ck you, it's my Utoob channel."
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Kids these days have such short attention spans.
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Perfect example of the internet rewiring our brains. Terry is older than dirt and comes from a time before the Internet when stuff like this 18 minute video might have been on the TV as an hour long show, and we never thought anything of spending that hour watching. Now, 18 minutes means you're losing time in which you could watch six 3 minute "executive summary" style videos on six different subjects.
We're definitely in a time of "learning via headlines".
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Ground up didn't "supposedly" start in hospitals. It did begin in hospitals.
50-something years ago an engineer I knew built his own house. He mentioned once that the town building inspector made him reverse all the outlets in the house to the ground-up orientation. This is not something new yet, except for health care wiring, the NEC doesn't require it.
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Perfect example of the internet rewiring our brains. Terry is older than dirt and comes from a time before the Internet when stuff like this 18 minute video might have been on the TV as an hour long show, and we never thought anything of spending that hour watching. Now, 18 minutes means you're losing time in which you could watch six 3 minute "executive summary" style videos on six different subjects.
We're definitely in a time of "learning via headlines".
Counterpoint:
Media like broadcast TV and radio are so freaking expensive that everything used to be soundbites and headlines. You'd have panel shows where every panelist might get to have a couple of minutes of total talk time, and expect to convey all the necessary information in that time period. And now a word from our sponsor.
Now media is so cheap it is the next thing to free. To be fair, there's a lot of useless garbage out there, and also lots of people making mind numbing numbers of 30 second videos. Even so, there's also a market for, and a massive quantity of long-form, deep exploration of subjects available - much of it free for the taking. Some of it the kind of miseducation that you used to have to pay major universities to get.
Sometimes people don't just want a simple question answered in the shortest possible timeframe, they want to know the history, and why, and some alternatives, and outliers, etc. Other times we are like Terry and just want our question answered, get a hit of dopamine, and move on.
Some people have become so used to the quick hits either because they grew up with watching the strobing kaleidoscope of content that was broadcast TV or because they're hooked on the strobing kaleidoscope of short-form content that is available on the internet that they can't tolerate "wasting" their time learning more than the bare essentials.
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Kids these days have such short attention spans.
As one of those short attention span kids seniors, I wonder where the like button is for that post.
:rofl:
Terry, 230RN
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Perfect example of the internet rewiring our brains. Terry is older than dirt and comes from a time before the Internet when stuff like this 18 minute video might have been on the TV as an hour long show, and we never thought anything of spending that hour watching. Now, 18 minutes means you're losing time in which you could watch six 3 minute "executive summary" style videos on six different subjects.
We're definitely in a time of "learning via headlines".
Actually, in my observation, it's quite the opposite with TV shows... they used to be written within a half-hour format. Now they seem to take a blech little plot and blow it up into an hour with all kinds of folderol to inflate the running time. One exception to this, I've noticed, is car chases. They were always good then and they're always good now and aren't just time sinks... like a couple staring into each others' eyes for thirty seconds of screen time... with largo music.
I cite car chases in "Highway Patrol" (old) and the famous car chase in "The Pink Panther" (new-ish) as enjoyable time user-uppers.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNj75gJVxcE
Technology Connections is always a fun watch. Decently informative with good backgrounding. SWMBO even likes it because it explains things in ways she can understand. The guy has enough snark and sarcasm he'd fit right in here on the 'PS.
Some people have become so used to the quick hits either because they grew up with watching the strobing kaleidoscope of content that was broadcast TV or because they're hooked on the strobing kaleidoscope of short-form content that is available on the internet that they can't tolerate "wasting" their time learning more than the bare essentials.
Do you want BlipVerts? Because that's how you get BlipVerts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekg45ub8bsk
Brad
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Counterpoint:
Media like broadcast TV and radio are so freaking expensive that everything used to be soundbites and headlines. You'd have panel shows where every panelist might get to have a couple of minutes of total talk time, and expect to convey all the necessary information in that time period. And now a word from our sponsor.
Now media is so cheap it is the next thing to free. To be fair, there's a lot of useless garbage out there, and also lots of people making mind numbing numbers of 30 second videos. Even so, there's also a market for, and a massive quantity of long-form, deep exploration of subjects available - much of it free for the taking. Some of it the kind of miseducation that you used to have to pay major universities to get.
Sometimes people don't just want a simple question answered in the shortest possible timeframe, they want to know the history, and why, and some alternatives, and outliers, etc. Other times we are like Terry and just want our question answered, get a hit of dopamine, and move on.
Some people have become so used to the quick hits either because they grew up with watching the strobing kaleidoscope of content that was broadcast TV or because they're hooked on the strobing kaleidoscope of short-form content that is available on the internet that they can't tolerate "wasting" their time learning more than the bare essentials.
I didn't think the video above fit what I was talking about. For the few minutes I listened, it seemed related.
An example I can think of is a channel that keeps getting recommended with vidoes about old TV shows. Video titles like "What happened to this show when she found out about XX". It has 10 minutes just talking in general about the show before about 10 seconds finally mentioning what the title said. It wasn't a bad video, but if you were expecting to just hear the answer to the title question, you would be disappointed. There are plenty of click bait title videos about space or aliens that have no new information at all.
On the other side, I love drachinifel's long videos doing deep dives into naval topics. Even his long Q&A videos can be pretty good. WW2TV is another channel that has good long conversations about WWII topics. These conversations wouldn't work so well on TV with commercial breaks every 5 minutes. It is almost the equivalent of a non-fiction book on tape.
Other channels like Midnight's Edge do long conversations about movies and entertainment topics that can be a good discussion. Depends on what topics you like.
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Non-traditional entertainment might be a good thread. Youtube channels like The Why Files, MrBallen, The Chieftain, Brothers of the Serpent, NetNarrator to name only a few. That stuff dominates my entertainment these days along with a few movies. I probably miss a lot of stuff I just run out of time for.
It is amazing how easy it is to just listen to someone tell stories when they are very good at doing it.
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Counterpoint:
Media like broadcast TV and radio are so freaking expensive that everything used to be soundbites and headlines. You'd have panel shows where every panelist might get to have a couple of minutes of total talk time, and expect to convey all the necessary information in that time period. And now a
I'll concede some of that. I mean, back when there were three networks to watch (plus PBS) 60 Minutes was a Sunday night staple - certainly every Sunday at my house when I was a kid, and it was all 12 minute segments. On the other hand, you had PBS science shows, Cosmos, etc, that were an hour long and interesting for the whole hour, and I never was thinking "there's a ton of other stuff I could be doing in this hour".
I can't speak for others, but these days I tend towards the short videos, to the detriment of longer videos that are very interesting. As an example, last night I watched Tulsi Gabbard's speech at Turning Point. Super well done, but when I first saw it pop up on my feed, I was like, "20 minutes!?! Do I really want to watch that long?" I about had to force myself to set aside the lousy 20 minutes.
I've done the same with stuff like Jack Carr's Danger Close videos, which often run 1-2 hours. I'm pretty sure that 20 years ago, that wouldn't have bothered me, but now I keep thinking about the 20 five minute videos on 20 different subjects that I could be watching instead, even if they just give me a very incomplete view of a topic. Had I not forced myself to sit down for the entire videos (admittedly, often in two or three viewing sessions), I would have missed some really informative and interesting interviews.
I think Youtube Shorts makes this attention span thing ten times worse. Everybody wants to do these 30 second videos, often of total nonsense, for clicks and monetization. I probably could have watched quite a few hour long videos with superior content with all the time I've wasted clicking on worthless youtube shorts. :laugh:
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I didn't think the video above fit what I was talking about. For the few minutes I listened, it seemed related.
An example I can think of is a channel that keeps getting recommended with vidoes about old TV shows. Video titles like "What happened to this show when she found out about XX". It has 10 minutes just talking in general about the show before about 10 seconds finally mentioning what the title said. It wasn't a bad video, but if you were expecting to just hear the answer to the title question, you would be disappointed. There are plenty of click bait title videos about space or aliens that have no new information at all.
On the other side, I love drachinifel's long videos doing deep dives into naval topics. Even his long Q&A videos can be pretty good. WW2TV is another channel that has good long conversations about WWII topics. These conversations wouldn't work so well on TV with commercial breaks every 5 minutes. It is almost the equivalent of a non-fiction book on tape.
Other channels like Midnight's Edge do long conversations about movies and entertainment topics that can be a good discussion. Depends on what topics you like.
If you like WW-2 history particularly the Pacific War you'll love these
Unauthorized History of the Pacific War Podcast
https://www.youtube.com/@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar
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Too long.
Didn't read
Counterpoint:
Media like broadcast TV and radio are so freaking expensive that everything used to be soundbites and headlines. You'd have panel shows where every panelist might get to have a couple of minutes of total talk time, and expect to convey all the necessary information in that time period. And now a word from our sponsor.
Now media is so cheap it is the next thing to free. To be fair, there's a lot of useless garbage out there, and also lots of people making mind numbing numbers of 30 second videos. Even so, there's also a market for, and a massive quantity of long-form, deep exploration of subjects available - much of it free for the taking. Some of it the kind of miseducation that you used to have to pay major universities to get.
Sometimes people don't just want a simple question answered in the shortest possible timeframe, they want to know the history, and why, and some alternatives, and outliers, etc. Other times we are like Terry and just want our question answered, get a hit of dopamine, and move on.
Some people have become so used to the quick hits either because they grew up with watching the strobing kaleidoscope of content that was broadcast TV or because they're hooked on the strobing kaleidoscope of short-form content that is available on the internet that they can't tolerate "wasting" their time learning more than the bare essentials.
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Too long.
Didn't read
=D
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It's funny he made an 18 min video on a subject that he says in the first minute and a half no one cares about.
It's funnier I watched the whole thing.
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It's funny he made an 18 min video on a subject that he says in the first minute and a half no one cares about.
It's funnier I watched the whole thing.
So, like every one of your posts at APS?
:rofl:
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The guy actually makes a very good point. Compared to other designs around the world, American plugs are rather crap. My guess is that it's more a case of we've become so used to what is essentially a first generation plug design that we've become complacent with it. The US adopted 110 as standard wall power early on and we've never had to completely rebuild our power grid as much of Europe has had to do.... twice.
The fact that we use 110 power instead of 240 is a large part of it, as well. It is safer. You'll get a jolt, but it's not nearly as likely to kill you as European 220 volt power is. It's unpleasant as hell (I've been hit twice in my life), but generally not much else.
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I didn't think the video above fit what I was talking about. For the few minutes I listened, it seemed related.
An example I can think of is a channel that keeps getting recommended with vidoes about old TV shows. Video titles like "What happened to this show when she found out about XX". It has 10 minutes just talking in general about the show before about 10 seconds finally mentioning what the title said. It wasn't a bad video, but if you were expecting to just hear the answer to the title question, you would be disappointed. There are plenty of click bait title videos about space or aliens that have no new information at all.
On the other side, I love drachinifel's long videos doing deep dives into naval topics. Even his long Q&A videos can be pretty good. WW2TV is another channel that has good long conversations about WWII topics. These conversations wouldn't work so well on TV with commercial breaks every 5 minutes. It is almost the equivalent of a non-fiction book on tape.
Other channels like Midnight's Edge do long conversations about movies and entertainment topics that can be a good discussion. Depends on what topics you like.
That's exactly the kind of thing that triggered my interest in the matter. After you become sensitized to that BS it kind of jumps out at you whenever some clickbaiter does it and it gets freaking annoying.
I'm not condemning well done informative videos, but too often there's too much fiddly-fartin' before the crux is presented.
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Ground up didn't "supposedly" start in hospitals. It did begin in hospitals.
50-something years ago an engineer I knew built his own house. He mentioned once that the town building inspector made him reverse all the outlets in the house to the ground-up orientation. This is not something new yet, except for health care wiring, the NEC doesn't require it.
Slight correction to the above. I chatted up the electrical inspector about this question at work today. He said it has become more or less customary for outlets to be installed with the ground terminal up in hospitals, but it's NOT required by the NEC (National Electrical Code) even in hospitals. My electrical inspector actually thinks it's better (overall) to install them ground down.
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The guy actually makes a very good point. Compared to other designs around the world, American plugs are rather crap. My guess is that it's more a case of we've become so used to what is essentially a first generation plug design that we've become complacent with it. The US adopted 110 as standard wall power early on and we've never had to completely rebuild our power grid as much of Europe has had to do.... twice.
Our three-prong plugs and receptacles aren't first generation at all. My house was built in 1950. All the receptacles were originally two-prong -- hot and neutral no ground. The house is wired with BX (metal-armored) cable and metal wall boxes. The armor can act as a ground,, so I replaced all the receptacles with 3-prong when I moved in after my mother died. So ungrounded receptacles were the first generation, and the 3-prong grounded outlets are at least the second generation.
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Ground down is how I've always seen it, until we moved into our current home where all outlets in the living room, dining area, and the main bedroom were installed ground up. Really triggered my OCD, so I set out to find answers!
The popular answer was previously mentioned - that ground up offers an obstacle against thin, falling, metallic objects that could trip a breaker, but I wasn't buying it. Another reason for an upside-down receptacle, according to the wild wild web, was sublime.
An upside-down receptacle serves to visually indicate a switched outlet!
Ah Ha!
I felt the peaceful, intoxicating wave of mental relief when a logical remedy is close at hand. The solution was removing and rotating every non-switched receptacle. Now the two remaining upside-down outlets are mated to a floor lamp and hanging lamp, each controlled by three-way switches, and most importantly Tuco's unexplained fits of rage are but a distant memory.
edit to add:
According to an appraiser friend of mine the term "Master Bedroom" has been determined offensive and therefore banished from the real estate lexicon. I was dumbfounded.
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Our three-prong plugs and receptacles aren't first generation at all. My house was built in 1950. All the receptacles were originally two-prong -- hot and neutral no ground. The house is wired with BX (metal-armored) cable and metal wall boxes. The armor can act as a ground,, so I replaced all the receptacles with 3-prong when I moved in after my mother died. So ungrounded receptacles were the first generation, and the 3-prong grounded outlets are at least the second generation.
Plugs. NOT receptacles. The plug is what you put into the receptacle.
Our plugs are largely a first generation design, very similar to what was rolled out between 1904 and 1912. Sure, a grounding prong was added later (ooh! New generation!) but the overall design is still solidly 1904 to 1912 and extremely similar to what Harvey Hubbell came up with... not to mention that there are tons of products sold every year in this country with two-prong plugs. Harvey Hubbell would be proud.
The two-prong/no ground system using the conduit or metallic armored cable as the ground is fine...
IF the cable is bonded to an actual grounding source (I've seen many cases where it's not) and if the electrical system isn't knob and tube with the wires embedded in the plaster of the walls, as was the case in many of the 2-prong outlets on my Mom's house, which was built in 1903.
The three prong plug, with the ground prong, was rolled out for home use starting in the 1920s (earlier for industrial use), but it wasn't until after World War II that it really started kicking off.
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Slight correction to the above. I chatted up the electrical inspector about this question at work today. He said it has become more or less customary for outlets to be installed with the ground terminal up in hospitals, but it's NOT required by the NEC (National Electrical Code) even in hospitals. My electrical inspector actually thinks it's better (overall) to install them ground down.
The guy in the video says exactly that -- not required by electrical code.
He said he thinks it's a better idea for the ground to be installed in the top position because it's a lot less likely that a bump, or even gravity, pulling the plug partially out of the wall and exposing the hot and neutral blades.
That partial accidental exposure is virtually impossible with European/Asian style round pin plugs or with US-style plugs where the blades are horizontal (generally denoting 20 amp) instead of vertical.
But, as he points out, the problem with that is that in many cases device plugs (90 degree models design to fit the cord flat against the wall) are designed so that they best fit with the ground pin down.
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That's exactly the kind of thing that triggered my interest in the matter. After you become sensitized to that BS it kind of jumps out at you whenever some clickbaiter does it and it gets freaking annoying.
I'm not condemning well done informative videos, but too often there's too much fiddly-fartin' before the crux is presented.
Too much fiddly-fartin...
So, pretty much like every one of your posts at APS.
Gotcha.
:rofl: :rofl:
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Actually, in my observation, it's quite the opposite with TV shows... they used to be written within a half-hour format. Now they seem to take a blech little plot and blow it up into an hour with all kinds of folderol to inflate the running time. One exception to this, I've noticed, is car chases. They were always good then and they're always good now and aren't just time sinks... like a couple staring into each others' eyes for thirty seconds of screen time... with largo music.
I cite car chases in "Highway Patrol" (old) and the famous car chase in "The Pink Panther" (new-ish) as enjoyable time user-uppers.
see the book Amusing Ourselves to Death -Niel Postman. While the length of the show vs content may line up with what you say the actual length of the individual scenes has dramatically shortened over the years. The short scenes are what is rewiring the brain, not the total length of the program.
Here is a summary for short attention spans LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub2TDt9uPS4
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More on topic, ground up seems so counter intuitive. Particularly regarding 120v equipment that has heavier cords but standard plugs in a commercial environment. I have seen outlets mounted that way in commercial kitchens. It's troublesome for equipment with 90 degree plugs on countertops.
On twist lock outlets I have noticed ground is up also.
Guess I'll make time to watch the video.
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US isn't the worst. Two - prong receptacles are still very common in Japan even in new construction. When you think about how most appliances have only two pring plugs it sort of makes sense. And the requirement to run an entire, full-guage wire to every fixture, which is effectively never used except in a fault condition, is pretty extravagant if you think about the cost of copper. Particularly now that GFCIs are a thing, do more to solve electrocution and don't require the ground wire at all.
They also don't even use electrical boxes in Japan. The receptacles are just clipped to the wall with the wires dangling in the wall cavity.
My old laptop had the ground prong ripped off so I could use it there. My new laptop has a two prong usb c charger anyway.
The US plug isn't great but if I had to change anything about US electrical infrastructure it would be requiring fused plugs. Right now we have overcurrent protection for installed wiring, but then we allow appliances to have 22ga cords with no overcurrent protection, meaning a short in the appliance will melt to cord without ever tripping the breaker. The circuit can't "know" what device is plugged into it, of course, so the circuit shouldn't be responsible for protecting the devices, but it's still a problem. The stupid, expensive, and annoying solution seems to be AFCI breakers that can supposedly detect device faults, but the correct solution is to have a fuse or breaker in each plug, appropriate for the individual device. This is how UK plugs work, I think. We already see this in the US in particularly fire prone things like Christmas lights, and UL now requires a breaker in power strips. CPSC or UL should just start requiring fused plugs universally. It's cheap, backwards compatible, and makes sense, and provides protection even in old structures without AFCI.
You could also just insulate the prongs for the first 1/4 inch or so and have the receptacles break current at that point so there's never exposed, energized prongs. That seems pretty practical and I never understood why they didn't do that anyway.
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US isn't the worst. Two - prong receptacles are still very common in Japan even in new construction. When you think about how most appliances have only two pring plugs it sort of makes sense. And the requirement to run an entire, full-guage wire to every fixture, which is effectively never used except in a fault condition, is pretty extravagant if you think about the cost of copper. Particularly now that GFCIs are a thing, do more to solve electrocution and don't require the ground wire at all.
GFCI protection requires the third conductor. Sensing current flowing in the grounding conductor is what trips the GFCI interruption. It's not possible to have GFCI with only two conductors.
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According to the discussion here, GFCIs do not require a third conductor...
https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfcis-on-2-wire-circuits/37538/2
This says the same thing, for the most part...
https://www.angi.com/articles/does-replacing-ungrounded-outlets-gfci-outlets-make-them-grounded-and-safe.htm
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I THINK fused plugs are a thing in Britain for two reasons...
They operate on 240 volt, so it's a safety issue, and many British home electrical installations are done with ring circuits.
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GFCI protection requires the third conductor. Sensing current flowing in the grounding conductor is what trips the GFCI interruption. It's not possible to have GFCI with only two conductors.
No they don't. They detect an imbalance between the hot and neutral conductors. They are approved for use on old 2-wire circuit and you're supposed to put a little sticker on the switch-plate that says "No Equipment Ground"
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No they don't. They detect an imbalance between the hot and neutral conductors. They are approved for use on old 2-wire circuit and you're supposed to put a little sticker on the switch-plate that says "No Equipment Ground"
The sticker doesn't have to do with GFCI, it's just that you are required to put the sticker on any 3 prong receptacle that has a ground hole that's not actually connected to ground. If you could buy 2-prong GFCI receptacles, or if you put a GFCI with 2 prong receptacles downstream, you don't need the sticker on those. But it's moot in North America because any kind of new 2 prong receptacles have been obsolete for decades.
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"But it's moot in North America because any kind of new 2 prong receptacles have been obsolete for decades."
You can still buy 2-blacde receptacles. Easily. I've seen them at Home Despot. Leviton makes them, as do most of the other companies.
Or, are you talking about new construction as opposed to old work?
If new construction, I'd assume that the electrical code no longer allows ungrounded systems in new construction, but I don't know that for sure.
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Zach, what appliances have you seen with 22ga wires aside from something like Christmas lights?
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Of possible interest... The power input side of my Kill-A-Watt power meter has the adaptor shown in the attachment with a ground clip (red clip attached to make it obvious).
You will note it is almost impossible to use a screw back there to connect to the outlet box ground.
Yet the "appliance side" into which you plug the appliance to be tested is a full three-prong outlet with the ground "hole" labeled as ground.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51an+QFlBFL._AC_SL1000_.jpg)
I was always intrigued by this odd arrangement.
Terry, 230RN
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Why not just plug an extension cord into the outlet and then plug the meter to that?
Did that on a few where it was inconvenient (location, other things plugged into the outlet, etc..) to plug the whole meter into the outlet
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Why not just plug an extension cord into the outlet and then plug the meter to that?
Did that on a few where it was inconvenient (location, other things plugged into the outlet, etc..) to plug the whole meter into the outlet
Matter of fact, that's what I do. In fact I keep a dedicated two-conductor cheapo extension cord in the "kit" containing the Kill A Watt meter. And yes, there is low-resistance conductivity between the ground outlet on the front side and the pictured lug in back. (See attachment in Reply # 39.)
I suppose if one had to, a dedicated technician could connect a jumper from that lug to the building ground if for some reason that was necessary in performing some measurement or another. But apparently for most appliance measurement purposes, this is not necessary.
Just seemed odd they'd have an adapter in back where there was no way to screw it to the outlet box ground screw. It was kind of an "open circuit" in my mind.
Terry, 230RN
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"But it's moot in North America because any kind of new 2 prong receptacles have been obsolete for decades."
You can still buy 2-blacde receptacles. Easily. I've seen them at Home Despot. Leviton makes them, as do most of the other companies.
Or, are you talking about new construction as opposed to old work?
If new construction, I'd assume that the electrical code no longer allows ungrounded systems in new construction, but I don't know that for sure.
I believe that is correct, but I'd have to ask our electrical inspector if there are any situations that still allow an ungrounded circuit.
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I've only ever had one problem with a "ground down" outlet.
This was pushing 25 years ago since both of the kids were still at home.
I had been brow beaten to allow the kids to have a cat in the house : :mad:
Someone had set some change down on top of the TV set. Vile feline jumps up on the top of the TV and proceeds tp spray the wall behind the TV. :mad: :mad:
I get up to toss the little POS outside and the cat manages to knock the change off the TV. A penny fell and landed on the plug that was just a tiny bit pulled away from the receptacle. *Flash* *Pop* and the TV and room lights go out. Tripped the breaker but still killed the TV deader than a hammer. TV was older and were were planning a replacement in the very near future anyway but, crap.
Cat was banished forevermore to being an outside cat.
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I've only ever had one problem with a "ground down" outlet.
This was pushing 25 years ago since both of the kids were still at home.
I had been brow beaten to allow the kids to have a cat in the house : :mad:
Someone had set some change down on top of the TV set. Vile feline jumps up on the top of the TV and proceeds tp spray the wall behind the TV. :mad: :mad:
I get up to toss the little POS outside and the cat manages to knock the change off the TV. A penny fell and landed on the plug that was just a tiny bit pulled away from the receptacle. *Flash* *Pop* and the TV and room lights go out. Tripped the breaker but still killed the TV deader than a hammer. TV was older and were were planning a replacement in the very near future anyway but, crap.
Cat was banished forevermore to being an outside cat.
Appropriate.
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My near miss on that which I mentioned was that I had a coathanger hanging on the wall above the outlet. A wall wart below it was out just a bit, exposing its terminals just enough that if the coathanger fell, there was a slight chance it would hit the terminals.
Didn't figure the odds on it, but the "why take a chance?" philosophy took over and I took the pushpin out of the wall that held the coathanger. I also noticed the wall wart did not seem to want to be firmly stuck in the socket, so I kept an eye on that afterwards.
I wasn't concerned about popping a breaker from a short contact, but about the resulting sparks.
Better to be hypersafe than hypersorry.