Texas: Police can use force to compel hurricane evacuation

[AZRedhawk44]

http://www.caller.com/news/2009/jul/26/police-can-use-force-compel-hurricane-evacuation/

By Denise Malan (Contact)
Sunday, July 26, 2009

A new state law will allow police to arrest people who don’t leave town under mandatory evacuation orders.

As it stands, officials cannot compel people to evacuate, only warn that those who stay behind won’t have any emergency services at their disposal. The new law gives county judges and mayors the power to authorize use of “reasonable force” to remove people from the area.

The law, passed this year, takes effect Sept. 1, in the heart of hurricane season in Texas. It also applies to other disasters, such as fires or floods.

Don’t expect police to go door to door arresting people or forcing them from their homes if a hurricane is headed toward Corpus Christi.

“If the hurricane is arriving here, we’re going to be doing the best we can to hunker things down, to make sure we have as many special-needs patients evacuated, to prevent crime and looting,” Corpus Christi Police Cmdr. Mark Schauer said. “We’re going to have a hard enough time preventing crime, let alone arresting people who don’t leave.”

County Judge Loyd Neal agreed that arrests for ignoring orders are unlikely.

“I don’t have a jail big enough to put 20,000 people in,” Neal said. “You have to hope people will use good sense. The majority of people usually do.”

Schauer sees the law more as a tool to compel people to leave, or to be used in special situations. For example, officials could issue a mandatory evacuation for the beaches, giving police the authority to arrest people who go storm-watching and put themselves in danger.

A man died after being swept off a Packery Channel jetty last summer as he watched swells caused by Hurricane Ike as it headed toward Galveston.

The law also makes people who must be rescued after ignoring mandatory evacuation orders civilly liable for the costs of the rescue.

A mandatory evacuation order often is a course of last resort, for a variety of economic and logistical reasons. Hospitals and nursing homes must move patients, and businesses must let workers leave town.

The evacuation provision is part of a larger bill overhauling the emergency response code after Hurricane Ike. The bill also directs the Governo

The most irritating part of this to me is the fact that the exact same bill that allows police to use physical force against you in your own home, also holds you responsible for rescue costs if you end up hiding and then need assistance later.

I "get" the idea behind forcing idiots to pay for their help when the gooberment says that they won't be around since there's a big old wall of wind and water bearing down on the town.  I don't "get" why you would authorize the police to use force for the purposes of evacuation.  That's guaranteed to raise tensions.  It's not worth egging on Castle Doctrine oriented people, trying to force them out of their homes, when you can just sue the 2 or 3 that end up needing $50K worth of help and recover the money that way.

Also interesting... it was passed unanimously.  R's and D's agreed.

So much for R's appreciating the sanctity of house and home, or attempting to derail the nanny state.

Also hilarious:  All the bureaucrats talking about how this isn't really meant to be used against <<insert situation here>>... quit worrying so much!  Move along, move along, nothing to see here. 

Even though the law is exceptionally vague and does not make an effort to delineate between an ornery but well prepared man in his house on a hill 150 feet above sea level, and an apartment full of gangbangers setting up with hand-trucks across the street from an abandoned Best Buy.

Excellent illustration of the concept that laws should not be written based upon the best of intentions, but rather the most vile of potential abuses.

[Balog]

If the poli-critters have to keep telling you how they won't use the powers they just gave themselves, you know you're about to get it sans lube.

[freakazoid]

Schauer sees the law more as a tool to compel people to leave, or to be used in special situations. For example, officials could issue a mandatory evacuation for the beaches, giving police the authority to arrest people who go storm-watching and put themselves in danger.

A man died after being swept off a Packery Channel jetty last summer as he watched swells caused by Hurricane Ike as it headed toward Galveston.

Shouldn't it be there own fault if they die while doing something dangerous knowing it is dangerous? Arrest people who go storm watching!? So would that mean they can arrest tornado chasers?

[seeker_two]

What do you expect from a state that just put age limits on tanning beds?...  :rolleyes:

See my sig.... 

[Gewehr98]

We either weathered out or evacuated from several hurricanes when living in Spacecoast Florida.

The Brevard County Sheriff's Department made it very well known that if they came around with the squad cars broadcasting evacuation orders, you were to leave.

If you chose not to leave, you were on your own.  Period.

No ambulances, no police, no fire, no nothing. Your refusal to leave was your death warrant, and there was no legal requirement for emergency personnel to stay and assist stupid people.

Even the cops weren't stupid enough to stick around when a hurricane approached the barrier islands.  They evacuated to the mainland, and shut down the causeways when the winds blew over 50mph.  One family panicked as the hurricane's eye approached, and attempted to drive across one of the causeways - they were subsequently blown over the side to their deaths in the Intracoastal Waterway below.

Sorry, as far as I'm concerned, if you're so in love with your home as a Category IV-V hurricane approaches that you refuse to leave, then you're just lined up for a Darwin award. Hopefully, they'll have something nice to say about you in the newspaper obituaries.

Our home got serious damage from Hurricanes Jeanne, Frances, and Wilma.  Insurance took care of it, but we evacuated for the former two Category IV storms.  Wilma was only Category I with no mandatory evacuation, so we rode it out, but it was scary in and of itself.

[MicroBalrog]

Sorry, as far as I'm concerned, if you're so in love with your home as a Category IV-V hurricane approaches that you refuse to leave, then you're just lined up for a Darwin award. Hopefully, they'll have something nice to say about you in the newspaper obituaries.

Which has nothing to do with whether they should be allowed to imprison you for it.

[LAK]

Might be worth reading the small print in the enacted bill. Sounds like it is aimed at something else in addition to "floods, fires etc".

And yes; they have jails big enough to hold 20,000 and more. They are called football stadiums, schools, etc.

[HankB]

I live well inland in the Austin area, but if I lived on a barrier island just barely above sea level on the coast, I would NOT try to sit out a hurricane - people don't particularly scare me, but I'm not so foolish as to believe I'm tougher than hurricane-force winds or a storm surge.

And I agree with the previously expressed sentiment that someone who IS going to stay ought NOT expect ANY assistance from police or EMS until the storm blows over.

BUT . . . if there were some OTHER "disaster" that was allegedly bearing down on me, I'd use my own judgement on whether or not to evacuate. Generally speaking, attempting to use force to get Texans out of their homes could get very ugly, very quickly. (Especially since so many people are aware of what transpired in NOLA after Katrina.)

[Balog]

Micro: I don't think G98 was saying he approved of the bill. My reading was that he was pointing out that people need to be prepared to face the consequences of their actions, and that others (cops, ems etc) shouldn't risk their lived for the idiots.

[Gewehr98]

Nope, I don't approve of the bill, but I've also seen idiots during and after hurricanes who felt that local government was obligated to assist when they chose to put themselves in dire straits. 

Duh.

[MechAg94]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hurricane/ike/6548468.html.
This is the only other link I could find and it references the Corpus link.  All the stuff Google brought up referenced back to that one article.

Not saying it is false, this is just the first I have heard of this law.  I would have thought something like this would get more attention during the legislative session.  The article doesn't reference the actual bill. 

[Thor]

IMO, if someone doesn't evacuate, they're on their own. Don't call 9-1-1 asking for help, for it will not be provided. Don't blame the Government for not coming to your assistance.  If they die due to their own negligence, then the State shouldn't be held accountable. If they commit crimes in the aftermath, then the immediate death penalty should apply. Whatever the case, the State should have no absolute say in this matter.

[MechAg94]

http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/news/local/UPDATE_New_law_allows_cops_to_arrest_those_who_dont_evacuate_during_hurricane.html

I guess this is spreading around a bit.  Here is another article with a whole bunch of wonderful quotes about how we should trust the government's discretion.  :)

I like this one.

He noted that Cuba minimizes loss of life by forcing residents to evacuate.

"Of course, they're a communist state -- we don't run that way," he said, adding that the legislature is likely looking for "a happy medium."

Just what we need.  A happy medium with a totalitarian communist state tipping the scales.