Thinking of a new hobby: Guitars and guitar help.

[geronimotwo]

Geronimo:
I was told the same thing at the local joint. To me, a little loss of acoustic might even be a good thing since I live in an apartment and have neighbors in close proximity.

this is the first i heard about living in an apartment. with that in mind, especially for someone starting out who may be self conscious about their own playing, i might consider going with an electric, or hollow body electric. i have never played one, but that fender acoustasonic looks pretty nice, but will be limited to acoustic sounds. here is another alternative. http://www.gibson.com/products/gibson/Hawk/BluesHawk/BluesHawk.html i have played three of these in different shops. i really liked two of them, one was pretty bad.

read the advice two cold soakers has to offer. i started on six, then went to four as everyone needed a bass player (and it's a lot of fun!), and now i'm back to six doing solo stuff as my current schedule makes it hard to get together with a group.

[280plus]

Bass players are a busy lot... 

[Ryan in Maine]

280:
I don't want anyone to hear my mistakes. =\

MBS:
I've narrowed my list down quite a bit. The Telecaster is off the short, but I'm still looking at the Yamaha RGX A2 which has a bolt-on neck (perhaps less comparable than other guitars, but still).

280/MBS:
Muddy Waters dominated the Telecaster!

Wooderson:
I see your point. I noticed the "premium" showing mostly in the woods used.

Strings/280:
Thanks for the string talk. I'm going to ask about strings shortly, actually.

TwoCoSo:
I don't plan on doing any gigs right now. I'm mostly looking for a creative hobby to keep me busy in my down time.

I did try out the Yamaha RBX4 A2 when I tried out its counterpart (it's the only bass I've held). I think a bass might be fun to take up in the future when funds are fundier and my skill with the guitar has significantly progressed. The guitar should keep my busy for awhile.

Geronimo:
My bad. I probably should have mentioned the apartment dwelling in my initial post. It is a crucial part of my reasoning for an electric after the sentimentality. I strummed an acoustic and it decided the acoustic sound is just too loud for my modest drywall castle.

Everyone:
I have narrowed my guitar choices down to 6. I am looking at 4 Epiphone's and 2 Yamaha's:
∙ Epiphone SG Prophecy GX - In the black cherry finish. Gibson Dirty Fingers. 24 frets. $500-something.
∙ Epiphone LP Standard LE - In the limited candy apple red/gold finish. Alnico classics. $500-something.
∙ Epiphone LP Studio Chameleon - In the silver/lime flip flop finish. Alnico classics. $400-something.
∙ Epiphone SG Faded G-400 - In the worn brown finish. Alnico classics. $400-something.
∙ Yamaha AES620 - In the royal blue finish. Seymour Duncan JB/Alnico custom. $500-something.
∙ Yamaha RGX A2 - In the white finish. Alnico Yamahas. $500-something.

I don't think I can go wrong with any of these. They're all in the $400's and $500's so the pricing doesn't look like it's going to be a big factor in my decision at this point. Right now I'm looking at ease of learning on and comfort. So far the Epiphone SG's and the Yamaha RGX A2 are at the top of my list.

My next question is about amps. I'm looking for a smallish amp for under $200 that I can use in my apartment. I'm only playing for myself, so I don't need anything over-the-top. The Line 6 Spider 3, Roland Micro Cube, Vox Pathfinder and DA5, and the Epiphone Valve Junior are some of the recommendations I've been given.

Last question is about strings. Should the strings that come with the guitar I settle on (Epiphone SG Prophecy GX being the front-runner) be up to snuff? Or would now be a good time for some recommendations for strings too? I don't want to get too far ahead of myself.

Thanks folks.

[Iain]

I've been looking at all this again myself lately, just bought a lap steel and a small amp to go with it.

Amp-wise - if you're concerned about how loud an acoustic guitar is then pay attention to whether or not your chosen amp has a headphone socket. Especially if you are looking at little tube amps like the Epi Valve Junior, as 5 watts of tube seems to be a very different thing to 5 watts of solid state. I've got a Fender Champion 600 (another 5 watt tube) on the way - all the reviews I've read on that are very very positive. Cost me about $200 in the UK, so should be cheaper than that over there.

Not to expand your shortlist again - take a look at some of the Washburn electric guitars. Their HB32 (335-alike) is very much to my taste, gets very good reviews and is available for around the $400 mark. The W165 looks rather awesome as well, seen it for £299 so no idea what it would be in $ over there.

Strings are a personal thing. Start off with known brands (D'Addario, Ernie Ball etc) and see what you like. Experiment with different gauges and then when you find something you like consider getting the guitar action set-up for your preference.

[geronimotwo]

yes, a headphone jack is good for apartment life. i personally prefer the sg's to the lp's as they are more comfortable to play (rounded corners, and less weight). it's to bad they don't make an sg with a single coil pickup to get more of a fender sound, but you could add a coil tap select switch if the pickups allow.

amps? i agree with iain's choice, as i have always been happy with the fender sound. roland makes a good amp, and the line six amps had a lot of neat sounds to play with. it's nice to have a footswitchable overdrive, or channel select, but i don't know what you can get in that price range. choose the amp for the sound, don't let the tube factor sway you. i've heard some really good sounding solid state amps (fender), and some really poor sounding tube amps (crate).

line 6 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JKRFUE

roland http://www.amazon.com/Edirol-MicroCube-Power-Amplifier-White/dp/B000K0POPQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1208866289&sr=1-1

vox http://www.amazon.com/VOX-DA5-Amplifier-Instrument-Practice/dp/B000ICBWZ2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1208866654&sr=1-1

epiphone http://www.amazon.com/Valve-Junior-Guitar-Combo-Amp/dp/B000LPOX02/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1208866768&sr=1-1

if these are the amps you are looking at, the line 6 would be my first choice. although double the price, the amp modelings are fun and easy to play with, and 75 watts through a celestion speaker will keep up with most drummers in live jams. bear in mind that i have not played through any of these particular amps, but i have messed with the early line 6 models.

good luck.

[The Annoyed Man]

get thee to Evilbay, and search "pocket amp". Here's the one I use:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Pocket-Rock-It-Pro-Practice-Amp-W-Headphones_W0QQitemZ360043456935QQihZ023QQcategoryZ121161QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Iain]

Meant to post this last time - http://reviews.harmony-central.com/

They're only views of members of the public, but on popular guitars/amps/effects there will be a lot of them.

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/product/Yamaha/AES620/10/1 - 50 odd reviews there. The 620HB (hollow body) looks really cool, pricier I expect.

[Ryan in Maine]

Iain:
I will make sure to get an amp compatible with headphones. The Fender Champion 600 is just a bit over $200 here locally. I can get it for $200 online from Musician's Friend if money gets tight.

I don't mind suggestions. I'm sure others in this discussion are correct when they say this first guitar won't be my last.

Harmony Central has some good reviews. Most of them seem to be more in depth than the relatively brief reviews I was reading on Musician's Friend.

Geronimo:
I prefer the SG too. That's based on handling and not playing though. It's a lot easier for me to reach the frets on the SG.

I like the Line 6 and the Vox. The Fender that Iain mentioned looks like a good bet too. I'm sure they all sound good enough for my needs.

Strings:
That's a cool little gadget. It looks great for some relaxing, night time use in an apartment.

Everyone:
I notice the Epiphone SG Prophecy GX, the Yamaha AES620, and the Epiphone LP Studio Chameleon don't come with a pick guard. Would that be a problem for a beginner? I also noticed the Epiphone LP Standard LE has a lifted pick guard while the Epiphone Faded G400 has a flat pick guard. What's the difference in functionality?

Thanks folks.

[wooderson]

Wish I'd remembered this thread a few days ago - MusiciansFriend was running the Epi SG-400+Valve Jr. combo package for a ridiculously low price, $199 I think. Check the "Stupid Deal of the Day" link on their main page, it could show up again.

it's to bad they don't make an sg with a single coil pickup to get more of a fender sound, but you could add a coil tap select switch if the pickups allow.

not in the price range being discussed, but:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Gibson-SG-Special-3-Electric-Guitar-with-Single-Coil-Pickups?sku=514561

[Iain]

Iain:
I will make sure to get an amp compatible with headphones. The Fender Champion 600 is just a bit over $200 here locally. I can get it for $200 online from Musician's Friend if money gets tight.

You don't want the Fender then, mine arrived yesterday. Doesn't have a headphone socket, but that was never an issue for me.

The thing is ridiculously cute. Now waiting for the lap steel to arrive to see if it sounds good too.

[gunsmith]

I recently got my axe out of hock, something like this
http://www.washburn.com/products/electrics/x/x5.aspx
but in black and a couple years older, I've been playing off and on for over 20 years and still have not got the hang of electric but I'm gonna give it a shot this year.
I like acoustic, it seems as if the electric makes a noise when you even think of touching a string.
To me, it seems more difficult than acoustic, except for folks who rely on tricks.
My nephew is like that, lots of hammerons and pulloffs real noisy but doesn't know a G chord from an A chord..or he could be trying to simply annoy his uncle.

I picked the Washburn because it is a reputable company, the price was right
(new on sale for 150) and it didn't have a wammy bar.
My first teacher and good friend Simon Chardiet
http://www.simonchardiet.com/
Once told me not to buy a guitar with a wammy unless it was a really, really good guitar, because they go out of tune after use and it would be better just to learn to play without the tricks

[crt360]

it's to bad they don't make an sg with a single coil pickup

geronimotwo,  check it out:

            http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Gibson-SG-Special-3-Electric-Guitar-with-Single-Coil-Pickups?sku=514561           

Ryan, there are a lot of good, reasonably priced guitars out there for beginners.  For around $400 new, I'd probably go with the Fender Standard HSS Strat (MIM).  Seriously, it's a hard setup to beat for versatility.  I've played a number of Strats and there's no way I'd pay what Fender wants now for an American made one unless it was particularly magical.  The same goes for Gibson.  I like Fenders and Gibsons and have owned and played them for 25-30 years, but they're both riding the vintage rock'n'roll wave and their traditional American made models seem really over-priced for what you get.

In the $500-$599 range, check out the PRS SE models.  The few I've played were very well designed, and flawlessly made.  In fact, my brother just bought an SE Soapbar II with the maple top.  It's probably the sweetest new guitar I've seen for $500 or less.

The set-neck and neck-thru Schecters are quite nice, too.  I picked up a well-used one out of curiosity (and because it was too cheap to pass up) a couple of years ago and I've been quite impressed with it.

Fitzer's first post was good advice.  If you like Clapton, Hendrix, Frusciante and Jack White, you won't be happy starting out on an acoustic.  If it has the crap set up many off the wall acoustics have (including a number of mid to high end Martins, Taylors, and Breedloves I played recently) and you don't have a good local shop that'll set it up for you, you'll get frustrated and quit.  I've got an old Takamine that was nice to begin with and after a little tweaking it plays as easily as many electrics.  Unless you want play some Joan Baez or John Denver kind of stuff (and I don't think you do), skip the acoustic for awhile.  Have fun with your electric and learn your basics.  Once you're reasonably comfortable with your playing, find a nice acoustic and start listening to old blues stuff like Robert Johnson, Mississippi John Hurt, Johnny Shines, bluegrass guys like Norman Blake, Tony Rice, Stephan Grossman, unconventional players like Leo Kottke, Michael Hedges and others.  You will not be one of the crappy sounding rockers playing an acoustic like they just picked it up for the first time.

As far as amps go, I must admit I have not tried any of the new smaller amps.  I'm preferential to tubes and still play mostly through older Fender and Mesa/Boogie amps.  Some of the newer little 5w Class A amps like the Valve Junior and Blackheart Little Giant look like they might be a lot of fun.  If you're not into the tube thing, and I know some really good players who aren't, there are a lot of decent little solid state amps like the Roland Cubes.

Good luck.

[Ryan in Maine]

Wooderson:
I missed it. That's a pretty cool feature on the website though. When I checked they had an Olympus white Squier Stratocaster with three pickups. Had a whammy bar though, so I wasn't interested. I've still seen some nice deals the past couple days.

That Gibson SG is beautiful. For what it's worth, I think you can use coil-tapping on the Epiphone SG I'm looking at for under $600. From the Epiphone SG Prophecy Custom GX flash site: "Epiphone takes it one step further by adding coil-tapping in the form of a push/pull volume control to allow for single-coil isolation of each pickup."

Iain:
Yeah, I didn't give it a thorough look. I just checked the price. Still sounds like a nice deal on an amp though. Update us on that funky looking lap steel. Ha ha.

Gunsmith:
That looks like a fun electric. You just made me nervous by telling me you haven't got the hang of the electric in 20 years though. Ha ha.

I've also been thinking of picking up something of lower cost and just changing the strings and maybe the pickups. I've been looking at the Peavey Generation Custom EX and a Squier Stratacoustic or Telecoustic. I can get them both for around $400 total. Peavey is a brand I would trust, and the Generation Custom EX feels really good and sounded good to my untrained ears. I think it came pretty close to imitating an acoustic. Then with the Squier Stratacoustic/Telecoustic I can play it unplugged, it shouldn't be as loud as an acoustic, and I can still plug it in. That works well in my apartment situation. That way I get some electric and acoustic experience for the price of some of the lower end electrics I have on my short list. Then again, I can't help but feel it's being redundant and probably distracting me from optimimal learning.

Peavey Generation Custom EX: http://www.peavey.com/products/browse.cfm/action/detail/item/116569/Generation(TM)%20Custom%20EX.cfm
Squier Stratacoustic: http://www.squierguitars.com/products/search.php?partno=0937400092
Squier Telecoustic: http://www.squierguitars.com/products/search.php?partno=0937500092

I'm not intrested in a whammy bar on any priced guitar. It'd just get in the way of my learning, I'd guess. I'd be almost, too tempted to use it, if that makes sense.

CRT:
I agree! I've done a lot of searching through brands I trust. The most expensive guitars I'm looking at are $550, which I consider a pretty good deal. Most of the guitars I'm looking at are actually right at the $400-500 mark.

Define "particularly magical", ha ha.

I've taken a look at some of the PRS guitars. They're aren't any affordable ones locally. They all climb into the thousands. I'd be interested in checking out the SE series though. I'll make do with reviews for now and see what they have for $550 and under. Dropping $600 would make me feel guilty for some reason.

I do have a good shop down the street, luckily. Earlier when I was still considering an acoustic I actually held some nice Takamines. Really nice guitars.

Do you have any advice for learning the basics? I'm taking all I can get.

I haven't tried the new smaller amps either. I haven't really taken a stance on tube vs. solid state. I just want something that sounds good for under $200. The local joint has a small Fender that sounds good to me. Solid state.

Everyone:
I still need to be schooled on pick guards. And would you shoot down the Peavey and Squier idea and stick with a single guitar? I keep getting the feeling that I'm ahead of myself.

Thanks folks.

[280plus]

And would you shoot down the Peavey and Squier idea and stick with a single guitar?

KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) 

Learn how to play a bit before you start spending all your $. There's few things that are worse than a guy with a lot of guitars that can't play any of them worth a damn. Same thing with guns. Nothing worse than a guy with a crapload of really nice guns that can't shoot. But, to each his own.

I know very little about the electronic side of things, I got a 1972 Ovation Tornado for my electric. Found it in the paper and paid $250 for it. I have no solid body. I recently had Ovation redo the electronics in mine. All "New old stock". That guitar screams! I have a little Fender Studio 85 to plug it into. I also have an old Gibson tweed bottom with two 12s that I'm sure I could incorporate if I had a hankerin' to. The magnets on those speakers are massive. I have it hooked to my 125 watt 1977 Sansui 9090DB and once you get all the pots and switches uncrackled that setup is clear as a bell and the needles aren't even moving on the meters. When the needles start to move it's getting too loud.  .

[Iain]

Agree with 280 - get something decent that you like. Learn to play that, realise that you are another guitarist with guitar acquistion syndrome and buy more later.

The lap steel is working out very nicely. The neck pick-up through the tube amp is giving me a good percentage of the sound I was looking for for a lot less than buying an Asher. I'm already looking at it and thinking about entirely replacing the electrics some day. The amp is really nice, some hum, but nothing bad and plenty of volume. Goes all the way up to 12, and I think the neighbours would have something to say if I put it up there. It's been nice to break away from the old six string EADGBE played with fingers and move into a new area, I've played more in the last few days than I had in the previous year.

[280plus]

Yup, me too. I'm working on a CD and I've been transposing all the tunes into the right keys for my singer. Finally, after all these years, I'm seeing the guitar as more of a tool than a plaything. Funny I never looked at it that way before. I blame the crappy professors I had. Not one of them ever approached it or presented music to me as being something practical in  addition to fun. I'm already becoming a better player due to the little independent study I'm doing.

[Ryan in Maine]

280/Iain:
That's what I figured. One at a time.

Iain:
Nice buy on the lap steel. What exactly do they sound like? I remember hearing one used in Polynesian music but I don't remember the sound.

Everyone:
I have narrowed my choices down to two guitars. An Epiphone and a Peavey. I have not held the Epiphone yet, but it's an SG, and I know I like the SG's.

Epiphone SG Prophecy GX in black cherry: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Epiphone-SG-Custom-GX-with-Dirty-Fingers-Pickups-Electric-Guitar?sku=515619

Peavey HP Signature EXP in tiger eye or transparent black: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Peavey-HP-Signature-EXP-Electric-Guitar?sku=511392

This is more difficult than I thought it would be! I really like the SG the best since they're the most comfortable electric I've held, but the local joint doesn't have that particular model and has to order it. The Peavey is great. Very comfortable and sounds good. No Dirty Fingers though. Still sounds good.

What say you?

[Iain]

The sound of a lap steel varies wildly, from a country pedal-steel type sound to a more earthy blues type sound. People use them for pretty much everything. I wanted one with a neck pick-up to get a 'warmer' more acoustic-ish tone.

The Peavey is more to my taste. Never been a big fan of SG's though. Could always replace the pick-ups at a later date.