Author Topic: Chavez just expelled the US ambassador  (Read 5849 times)

wmenorr67

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Re: Chavez just expelled the US ambassador
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
And we are playing Tit-for-Tat and kicking out their ambassador.  Which was expected.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Chavez just expelled the US ambassador
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
What's the big deal?  The US builds missile sites in Poland, and Russia builds missile sites in S. America.

An eye for an eye; so to speak.

We are not building missile sites in Poland. We are building interceptor sites in Poland. They cannot attack a city. They are only good for knocking down another missile in flight.

That is not the same as a nuclear ICBM.

So we're trying to cripple Russia's ability to mount an offensive or defensive attack by setting up interceptor sites in eastern Europe.  Their response was to make this air blockade ineffectual be setting up a site in S. America.

I still don't have a problem with this.  If Russia had set up interceptor sites around the US; we would (and should) respond similarly.

Nooo...We are NOT trying to do that. Read the bulletins and assessments.

Poland is NOT a good place to intercept Russian missiles, which would arc over the pole.

It is, however, an excellent place to intercept missiles from the Middle East. Which is why we're building it.

Nick1911

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Re: Chavez just expelled the US ambassador
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
What's the big deal?  The US builds missile sites in Poland, and Russia builds missile sites in S. America.

An eye for an eye; so to speak.

We are not building missile sites in Poland. We are building interceptor sites in Poland. They cannot attack a city. They are only good for knocking down another missile in flight.

That is not the same as a nuclear ICBM.

So we're trying to cripple Russia's ability to mount an offensive or defensive attack by setting up interceptor sites in eastern Europe.  Their response was to make this air blockade ineffectual be setting up a site in S. America.

I still don't have a problem with this.  If Russia had set up interceptor sites around the US; we would (and should) respond similarly.

Nooo...We are NOT trying to do that. Read the bulletins and assessments.

Poland is NOT a good place to intercept Russian missiles, which would arc over the pole.

It is, however, an excellent place to intercept missiles from the Middle East. Which is why we're building it.

And we've summarily pissed off Russia?  Or do you think this is an unrelated power grab while our hands are tied? (Cuban missile crisis II?)

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Chavez just expelled the US ambassador
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
What's the big deal?  The US builds missile sites in Poland, and Russia builds missile sites in S. America.

An eye for an eye; so to speak.

We are not building missile sites in Poland. We are building interceptor sites in Poland. They cannot attack a city. They are only good for knocking down another missile in flight.

That is not the same as a nuclear ICBM.

So we're trying to cripple Russia's ability to mount an offensive or defensive attack by setting up interceptor sites in eastern Europe.  Their response was to make this air blockade ineffectual be setting up a site in S. America.

I still don't have a problem with this.  If Russia had set up interceptor sites around the US; we would (and should) respond similarly.
The US missile defense system can only stop about a dozen ICBMs, and only if they're launched from specific parts of the world (none of which are Russian missile sites).  It would hopefully prevent a rogue state like Iran or North Korea from lobbing a handful of nukes, but it would be useless against a strike from Russia.

Russia knows our missile defense shield wouldn't be usable against them.  IIRC we've even asked them to participate in the shield.  It is absolutely not a threat to Russia, and Russia knows it.  Putin is treating it like a threat as an expedient to further his own machinations.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Chavez just expelled the US ambassador
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
What's the big deal?  The US builds missile sites in Poland, and Russia builds missile sites in S. America.

An eye for an eye; so to speak.

We are not building missile sites in Poland. We are building interceptor sites in Poland. They cannot attack a city. They are only good for knocking down another missile in flight.

That is not the same as a nuclear ICBM.

So we're trying to cripple Russia's ability to mount an offensive or defensive attack by setting up interceptor sites in eastern Europe.  Their response was to make this air blockade ineffectual be setting up a site in S. America.

I still don't have a problem with this.  If Russia had set up interceptor sites around the US; we would (and should) respond similarly.

Nooo...We are NOT trying to do that. Read the bulletins and assessments.

Poland is NOT a good place to intercept Russian missiles, which would arc over the pole.

It is, however, an excellent place to intercept missiles from the Middle East. Which is why we're building it.

And we've summarily pissed off Russia?  Or do you think this is an unrelated power grab while our hands are tied? (Cuban missile crisis II?)
It is very much an unrelated power grab.  Putin was going to try to rebuild the Soviet empire no matter what we do.  That's been his goal for as long as he's been in power.  He's finally managed to rebuild his military to the point where he can carry out effective operations against weaker neighbors.  Now that he has the capability, he's going to use it.  He made a dramatic display to show the world that Russia is back as a major world power, and to begin his overt efforts to bring Eastern Europe to heel.

Tactically, Putin may have chosen Georgia over other neighbors because of US involvement in Georgia.  If we hadn't been working with Georgia, maybe Putin would have chosen Azerbaijan instead of Georgia, or maybe Ukraine, or maybe somewhere else.  He would have picked whatever weak neighbor was most expedient militarily and politically.

There is never a shortage of excuses for thug dictators to justify their thuggery.  Europe went out of its way to play nice with Hitler in the '30s, to not do anything that might provoke him, and yet Hitler still managed to find plenty of excuses to take over his neighbors.   Putin today is no different.  Putin wants to rebuild the Soviet empire, and he wants to return Russia to its former status as a superpower.  He's going to do that so far as he's able to, no matter what the US or the rest of the world do.  When he's ready to make his next move, Putin will imagine or invent whatever excuses and justifications he thinks he needs.

yesitsloaded

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Re: Chavez just expelled the US ambassador
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
I wonder who saw this coming? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya6JfFK_lYQ
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richyoung

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Re: Chavez just expelled the US ambassador
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Quote
Why Russia was not attacking Georgia and menacing eastern Europe throughout the 90's, for example, but is today, is something you can understand by looking at "excuses."

Clearly you don't have any relatives who live in Russia, nor read their media on a daily basis.

Ditto.  The whole Gergia mess started back at the same time that the Serbia-Kosovo intermural scrimage fired up...
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