Author Topic: Physicists: Cloverfield, Godzilla, etc.  (Read 2743 times)

birdman

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Re: Physicists: Cloverfield, Godzilla, etc.
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2013, 10:28:49 PM »
We are missing another critical question.

What gauge and size shot for Mothra?

A system I designed for CRAM defense of point targets in Seoul.
Each "shot" (10 per HMMWV, 10 HMMWV per battery) was a ripple of 20 rockets, each of which accelerated to >1km/s in 0.25 seconds, covered 800m in less than a second, and the deployed (each) 50 1cm tungsten cubes.  Impact velocity of each cube is the equivalent of a 50BMG ball round at that range, and 1000 impact in under a second in a programmable dispersion diameter of anywhere from 3m to 100m.

lupinus

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Re: Physicists: Cloverfield, Godzilla, etc.
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2013, 10:32:15 PM »
A system I designed for CRAM defense of point targets in Seoul.
Each "shot" (10 per HMMWV, 10 HMMWV per battery) was a ripple of 20 rockets, each of which accelerated to >1km/s in 0.25 seconds, covered 800m in less than a second, and the deployed (each) 50 1cm tungsten cubes.  Impact velocity of each cube is the equivalent of a 50BMG ball round at that range, and 1000 impact in under a second in a programmable dispersion diameter of anywhere from 3m to 100m.
...why does this somehow not surprise me?
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

seeker_two

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Re: Physicists: Cloverfield, Godzilla, etc.
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2013, 11:15:46 PM »
What about MechaGodzilla!   And don't forget about the giant flying turtle.  I forget that one's name. 

Gamera.....always wanted to see Gojira & Gamera go at it.....
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makattak

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Re: Physicists: Cloverfield, Godzilla, etc.
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2013, 12:15:39 AM »
Gamera.....always wanted to see Gojira & Gamera go at it.....


The Japanese are pretty messed up, but apparently they got nothing on you seeker...
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freakazoid

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Re: Physicists: Cloverfield, Godzilla, etc.
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2013, 06:01:12 AM »
Weren't there some rather large insects in the ancient times?
All sorts of large creatures. Maybe not 300 feet tall, but still quite large.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauroposeidon
Quote
Brachiosaurus indicate that the head of Sauroposeidon could reach 17 m (56 ft) in height with its neck extended, making it the tallest known dinosaur. With an estimated length of up to 34 m (112 ft) and a mass of 50–60 t (55–66 short tons), it also ranks among the longest and heaviest.

Quote
And don't forget about the giant flying turtle.  I forget that one's name.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXkMfyjo7PU
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 06:05:19 AM by freakazoid »
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

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birdman

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Re: Physicists: Cloverfield, Godzilla, etc.
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2013, 08:07:29 AM »
...why does this somehow not surprise me?

It surprised my boss....who was a USMC helo test pilot, I believe he said "as your boss, I'm proud, as a helo pilot, that thing scares the crap out of me"...I hadn't consider the short range effects on things other than missiles...like helos (confetti) trucks (same) grouped combatants (ewww, soupy) and honey badgers (don't give a f$&@).

lupinus

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Re: Physicists: Cloverfield, Godzilla, etc.
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2013, 08:37:58 AM »
It surprised my boss....who was a USMC helo test pilot, I believe he said "as your boss, I'm proud, as a helo pilot, that thing scares the crap out of me"...I hadn't consider the short range effects on things other than missiles...like helos (confetti) trucks (same) grouped combatants (ewww, soupy) and honey badgers (don't give a f$&@).
It's always a good day at the office when you simultaneously manage to make your boss proud and scare the crap out of him.

Well done sir.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

AmbulanceDriver

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Re: Physicists: Cloverfield, Godzilla, etc.
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2013, 09:32:25 AM »
Note to self....

Unless you wanna become....  soupy....

Don't ever piss off birdman....

:D
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seeker_two

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Re: Physicists: Cloverfield, Godzilla, etc.
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2013, 09:36:32 AM »
The Japanese are pretty messed up, but apparently they got nothing on you seeker...

Hey.....at least there are no tentacles involved....I have standards....
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

AmbulanceDriver

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Re: Physicists: Cloverfield, Godzilla, etc.
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2013, 09:43:59 AM »
Holy crap...  

If I'm doign my math right - (using a speed of 1km/s, since I'm willing to bet the actual top speed might be classified) you had an accelleration of roughly 400 g's, of a mass of approx 1kg of tungsten (ignoring the mass of the rocket itself).  At peak accelleration, the rocket body sees a mass of 400kg for the payload alone...  That's impressive... :)
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birdman

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Re: Physicists: Cloverfield, Godzilla, etc.
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2013, 09:54:40 AM »
Holy crap...  

If I'm doign my math right - (using a speed of 1km/s, since I'm willing to bet the actual top speed might be classified) you had an accelleration of roughly 400 g's, of a mass of approx 1kg of tungsten (ignoring the mass of the rocket itself).  At peak accelleration, the rocket body sees a mass of 400kg for the payload alone...  That's impressive... :)

Yes, you are doing your math correctly.  The peak acceleration is actually 2-3x higher.

Let pitot this way, it will catch a 5.56 in less than 20-30m.

Also, at 400g launch acceleration breaking the speed of sound requires only 0.075 seconds (and about 30 feet).  The rocket hits almost 200mph in its own length.

Lets just say I found a really interesting motor developed by thiokol for a similar application and used it as the baseline for the design.  In any case, it was never built (mine, thiokol tested theirs)--sad face.

But if you want a fun read, google HiBEX and UPSTAGE.  ;)

roo_ster

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Re: Physicists: Cloverfield, Godzilla, etc.
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2013, 10:46:33 AM »
There are lots of really cool and practical weapon systems that don't get built. One of the major reasons is versatility. 

One "negative" about larger weapon systems that use KE as their means of kill is the inability to "tune" the payload.  Compare that to a slower munition that relies on a chemical energy kill mechanism.  Those can be tuned for armor penetration (HEAT), anti-personnel (HE, HE Frag), or somewhere in the middle (HEDP).

Toss in a desire to to beyond line of sight targeting & course-correction & guidance, and the super-fast, but laser-beam like trajectory of KE -kill munitions lose out to slower, but more flexible chemical energy-kill munitions lots of times.

Perhaps some future, as yet designed & deployed launchers/systems will be able to both sorts of munitions.

Fun stuff, trading off all these things.  I wonder if there are jobs like that anywhere?
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roo_ster

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birdman

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Re: Physicists: Cloverfield, Godzilla, etc.
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2013, 12:22:31 PM »
There are lots of really cool and practical weapon systems that don't get built. One of the major reasons is versatility. 

One "negative" about larger weapon systems that use KE as their means of kill is the inability to "tune" the payload.  Compare that to a slower munition that relies on a chemical energy kill mechanism.  Those can be tuned for armor penetration (HEAT), anti-personnel (HE, HE Frag), or somewhere in the middle (HEDP).

Toss in a desire to to beyond line of sight targeting & course-correction & guidance, and the super-fast, but laser-beam like trajectory of KE -kill munitions lose out to slower, but more flexible chemical energy-kill munitions lots of times.

Perhaps some future, as yet designed & deployed launchers/systems will be able to both sorts of munitions.

Fun stuff, trading off all these things.  I wonder if there are jobs like that anywhere?

Actually one advantage of late-deploy KE impactors is the ability to tune for the target.  The concept I had for the warhead above is based loosely on the AHEAD controlled frag round, and similar to that used in PAC-3 in operation (against aircraft, it actually doesn't have a warhead per se) among other systems.

Another one, the LOSAT missile was both KE AND (hence its name) beyond line of sight and was designed for course corrections.

The dominant reason why KE isn't used for longer ranges (rods from god notwithstanding) is the inefficiency of MAINTAINING a KE suitable velocity for long distances.  That being said, there are numerous KE-like (or KE enhanced) munitions that are low speed until just before impact, and accelerate, various runway penetrating munitions for example. 

Besides, you are splitting hairs, HEAT, HEDP, and SFP warheads are all KE, as is any fragmentation device, and in many cases use the same type of "propellants" (single-base rocket propellants -are- explosives, and double-base or composite ones use many of the same materials, and advanced propellants share the same development paths as advanced explosives...CL-20 in particular).  It's purely a matter of the timeframe over which the chemical energy is expended, when it is expended, and whether or not it is focused via structure (rocket) or shape (HEAT).

roo_ster

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Re: Physicists: Cloverfield, Godzilla, etc.
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2013, 10:25:25 PM »
Losat = LINE OF SIGHT ANTI TANK.  Loved the video on that one.  Ckem was more practical, but still not versatile enough.  There was a tank round with the blos moniker, beyond line of sight anti tank.  It was ballistic with rocket assist, iirc.  Definitely not a ke round, though.  Blos had another life as merm, multi purpose extended range munition.

Yes, anything with a frag component could be called ke, but ke is commonly associated with rounds that get their killing energy from moving really fast from shooter to target, not from the sudden accel at the end of the trip.
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roo_ster

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birdman

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Re: Physicists: Cloverfield, Godzilla, etc.
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2013, 10:34:11 PM »
Losat = LINE OF SIGHT ANTI TANK.  Loved the video on that one.  Ckem was more practical, but still not versatile enough.  There was a tank round with the blos moniker, beyond line of sight anti tank.  It was ballistic with rocket assist, iirc.  Definitely not a ke round, though.  Blos had another life as merm, multi purpose extended range munition.

Yes, anything with a frag component could be called ke, but ke is commonly associated with rounds that get their killing energy from moving really fast from shooter to target, not from the sudden accel at the end of the trip.

Oops, I had EFOG BLOS capability crossed over with the LOSAT missile.  Well, put this in your book, I was wrong. 

roo_ster

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Re: Physicists: Cloverfield, Godzilla, etc.
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2013, 01:36:19 AM »
Dude, acronyms.  Too darned many to shake a stick at. Almost as many as weapon systems that got orphaned some time before deployment.


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roo_ster

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freakazoid

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Re: Physicists: Cloverfield, Godzilla, etc.
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2013, 01:58:15 AM »
Dude, acronyms.  Too darned many to shake a stick at. Almost as many as weapon systems that got orphaned some time before deployment.

Pff, that's nothing. I eat, sleep, and breath acronyms.  :lol:
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

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