'In God We Trust' moving to face of $1 coins

[230RN]

How about "In Thor We Trust?"

Or "In Zuggoth We Trust?"

[K Frame]

I think the edge thing is cool! Do you know how hard that is, technology-wise? We're telling the rest of the world "Hey, we can do this!"
 
Heads, tails, it's always on the outside.
 

The Swiss have been doing edge lettering for YEARS on their 5 franc pieces. Or at least they were. Not sure if they switched to the Euro or not...

[K Frame]

"but considering that those that this country is still over 50% Christian, much less monotheistic* or even polytheistic."

But that doesn't matter!

Everyone should know by now that if one person objects enough to file a lawsuit, their viewpoint is FAR more important than the collective view point of everyone else and their single view point MUST be accommodated.

[Iain]

The Swiss have been doing edge lettering for YEARS on their 5 franc pieces. Or at least they were. Not sure if they switched to the Euro or not...

Pound coins have had lettering on the side since introduction in 1983 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_one_pound_coin

According to that link DECUS ET TUTAMEN found on the side of several designs means

"An ornament and a safeguard" – originally on 17th century coins, this refers to the inscribed edge as a protection against the clipping of precious metal

http://24carat.co.uk/decusettutamenframe.html says that decus et tutamen first appeared on the edges of British coins in 1662.

[HankB]

. . . The presidential coin series is scheduled to be released four per year, Each president will appear on only one coin, except for Grover Cleveland, who will be on two because he was the only president to serve non-consecutive terms.

To be depicted on a coin, a president must have been dead for at least two years, so the conclusion of the series remains uncertain.

As one who is interested in all things numismatic, I'm looking forward to adding the Carter and Clinton coins to my collection. 

[Perd Hapley]

How about "In Thor We Trust?"

Or "In Zuggoth We Trust?" 

Your point? 

[230RN]

Why don't we just settle on "In The Great Spirit We Trust?"

Since that seems pretty non-denominational, Congress couldn't be accused of making a law respecting the establishment of a religion.

Right?

Or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Right?

[Sergeant Bob]

Why don't we just settle on "In The Great Spirit We Trust?"

Since that seems pretty non-denominational, Congress couldn't be accused of making a law respecting the establishment of a religion.

Right?

Or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Right?

Anyone can be accused of anything but, how does putting IGWT on a coin be construed as a law establishing religion? I don't think anyone has ever been forced to become religious by words embossed on a coin. Although, the way some people act, you'd think they were in fear of being infected by the G-d virus just by reading it.

[Desertdog]

Although, the way some people act, you'd think they were in fear of being infected by the G-d virus just by reading it.

I have come to the conclusion that those who are so opposed to anything mentioning God or reminding them of God, such as a cross, deep down knows that He may/does exist, but they don't want to be reminded of the fact.
 

[MechAg94]

The reaction does seem to be very defensive sometimes. 

..not that they are the only ones who get defensive.

[Stand_watie]

Why don't we just settle on "In The Great Spirit We Trust?"

Since that seems pretty non-denominational, Congress couldn't be accused of making a law respecting the establishment of a religion.

Right?

Or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Right?

"G-d" is non-denominational. It's a title. It's not the name of the Christian god, the Hebrew god, or the Muslim god. "Great Spirit" is also a title.

[Perd Hapley]

And "Goddess" is actually more specific than "God."  "God" is neuter.

[wooderson]

"G-d" is non-denominational. It's a title.

Wrong. Capitalized God is a proper noun, referring to the Abrahamic deity. Lowercase 'god' is a title.

I'm not particularly opposed to 'In God We Trust' or anything (forcing a kid to say the Pledge, much less the Pledge including "under God" are the types of indoctrination that bother me) - but why is it so important that it be featured? Do Jews/Christians/Muslims need constant reminders that God is watching them and they shouldn't start raping, killing and pillaging?

[Stand_watie]

"G-d" is non-denominational. It's a title.

Wrong. Capitalized God is a proper noun, referring to the Abrahamic deity. Lowercase 'god' is a title...

Wrong. Both are titles. Lowercase may or may not refer to a non-almighty deity. Uppercase refers to an almighty deity. It's being in English only means it's usually used to refer to the Abrahamic deity.

[Perd Hapley]

woody,

I wonder if you can provide some sources for that view.  I have often seen "God" used for other supreme beings or even an abstract concept of the divine.  For example, in English translations of ancient Greek philosophy. 


I wouldn't call either one a title.  More of a classification, like human, demi-god, god. 

[wooderson]

Sure, check your dictionary.

Capitalized nouns refer to a specific being/object (or in this case, concept of a being). 'God' is a name, as Odin or Thor or Vishnu would be a name.

Titular, aspecific, forms are lower-case. "President of the United States" vs. "president of a company."

The OED:

God
  " noun 1 (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and supreme ruler of the universe. 2 (god) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature and human fortunes. 3 (god) a greatly admired or influential person. 4 (the gods) informal the gallery in a theatre.

In definition 1, the Abrahamic deity is capitalized, being a proper noun. In other definitions, particularly the second (the titular form, as noted earlier), capitalization is incorrect.

also, wikipedia does it short and sweet:

The names of gods are capitalized, including Allah, Vishnu, and God. The word god is generally not capitalized if it is used to refer to the generic idea of a deity, nor is it capitalized when it refers to multiple gods, e.g., Roman gods. There may be some confusion because the Judeo-Christian god is rarely referred to by a specific name, but simply as God (see G-d#Laws of writing divine names). Other names for the Judeo-Christian god, such as Elohim, Yahweh and Lord, are also capitalized.

Again: specific gods (being names), capitalized; non-specific gods, not-capitalized.

[wooderson]

Really, it's very simple. If you're using 'god' or 'g-d' to refer to the deities at large ("It's a title."), you're not using it as a proper noun. And we, as English speakers, do not capitalize nouns that aren't proper.

[Stand_watie]

Sure, check your dictionary. ..

Sure. NOUN: 1. God a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions. b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.

2.(deleted because wooderson claimed it was dishonest...note above there is STILL no mention of the Abrahamic deity)...

[wooderson]

That's a little bit intellectually dishonest, stand_watie. What the American Heritage Dictionary (which is where your definition is from) actually does is divide the first definition (capitalized) from the subsequent definitions (lowercase). Hence the main listing being 'god' and the sub-listing (1.) being 'God.'

That first definition, of course, is the Abrahamic deity, which is capitalized (being a name). As I've said.

[Stand_watie]

woody,

I wonder if you can provide some sources for that view.  I have often seen "God" used for other supreme beings or even an abstract concept of the divine.  For example, in English translations of ancient Greek philosophy. 


I wouldn't call either one a title.  More of a classification, like human, demi-god, god. 

Woody likes wiki. I'm skeptical myself.

Avataras (incarnations of God)
Main article: Avatar
Many denominations of Hinduism, such as Vaishnavism and Saivism, teach that occasionally, God comes to Earth as a human being to help humans in their struggle toward enlightenment and salvation (moksha). Such an incarnation of God is called an avatāra.

[Stand_watie]

That's a little bit intellectually dishonest, stand_watie. What the American Heritage Dictionary (which is where your definition is from) actually does is divide the first definition (capitalized) from the subsequent definitions (lowercase). Hence the main listing being 'god' and the sub-listing (1.) being 'God.'

That first definition, of course, is the Abrahamic deity, which is capitalized (being a name). As I've said.

Bullshit. I'm removing the second definition from my post. And look. It still doesn't say "The Abrahamic deity". Imagine that

[wooderson]

I don't know what that's supposed to illustrate. A wiki on Hindu deities... which says that Hindus have a particular conception of a god referred to as God - the supreme being, of whom Vishnu and other gods are but faces.

So, um, yeah, the Hindu 'God' is a proper name and referred to in that context should be capitalized.

[Stand_watie]

I don't know what that's supposed to illustrate...

Hmmm. Maybe that "God" doesn't mean "Abrahamic deity" as you claim.

[wooderson]

Bullshit. I'm removing the second definition from my post. And look. It still doesn't say "The Abrahamic deity". Imagine that

Okay, if you remove the second definition, nothing changes. Everyone can go look up the American Heritage definition for themselves (dictionary.com - though I don't know why anyone would choose AH or M-W over the good old OED) and see what I'm referring to.

The primary listing you've quoted is 'god' - lowercase. The definition is then capitalized when referring to a specific being (the Abrahamic deity). The rest of them are (correctly) lowercase.

god       (gŏd)  Pronunciation Key  
n.  
God
A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
A very handsome man.
A powerful ruler or despot.

The italicization is mine - as you can see, the capitalization is altered specifically for the definition referring to the Abrahamic deity.

[wooderson]

Hmmm. Maybe that "God" doesn't mean "Abrahamic deity" as you claim.

No, what I said was that 'God' refers to a specific being or concept of same - on American coins, obviously the Judeo-Christian God. In other contexts (ie cultures, situations), it may refer to something else - but god may only be capitalized when it is a proper noun. If you're using it as a title or other non-specific form, the word is not capitalized.

What I also said, and what you seem to be confused by, is that the definition you're citing capitalizes 'god' when referring to the Abrahamic deity.