Author Topic: Spy satellite could hit the USA, but DoD will shoot it down first (Merged threads)  (Read 23827 times)

280plus

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But what about the children on the bus?  shocked
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seeker_two

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But what about the children on the bus?  shocked

They went 'round and 'round....
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

Manedwolf

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I can't picture a bus in space without thinking of that hilarious Ken Burns spoof "documentary" about the "old negro space program"...

If you've never seen it, it's awesome.

http://www.negrospaceprogram.com/

K Frame

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One of the guys I worked with at SAIC some years ago did some work on this very subject for the Navy.

He used a rail gun to fire a high speed projectile into an old test satellite to test the viability into using kinetic energy to take out satellites.

He had a chunk of it on his wall.

I was going to send him a message about the subject, but it appears that he's no longer with the company.
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K Frame

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Whoa crap!

Just read a report that says the kinetic energy impactor delivered 130 megajoules of energy to the satellite.

Thats just shy of 96 MILLION foot pounds of energy!  shocked
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mtnbkr

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w00t.

I wonder if I can find a load using Unique and a 200gr LRN to develop the same amount of energy from my snubbie 38special. Wink

Chris

HankB

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I wonder if I can find a load using Unique and a 200gr LRN to develop the same amount of energy from my snubbie 38special. Wink
465,000 ft/sec out of a snubbie might generate a little more recoil than you'd find comfortable, especially if you're using an airweight . . .

Hmmm . . . compute powder charge . . . figure in efficiency & energy per grain . . . volume of case . . . compensate for nonlinearities . . .

260 lbs of powder will make a good starting load.

Compressing powder that much into a .38 case might require special loading techniques . . . it won't be neutron star density, but you WILL have to squish it down a bit . . . and the compression release when you fire it may make up for the flame propagation limit of the powder.

Better use new brass and a heavy crimp to contain it. (And you may have to use two hands when drawing the gun.)
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K Frame

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OK, that may be nothing, actually...

If I'm figuring this correctly, a shell from the main guns on a Missouri-class battleship have over 3 times the energy...

Let's see...

Shell weight - 2,700 pounds for one of the APs. 2,700*7,000 = 18900000 grains.

Muzzle velocity - say roughly 2,425 fps.

So...


2,425*2425*18900000/450400 = 246,766,901 MILLION foot pounds of energy...
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Manedwolf

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This is why I think it was a mistake to retire the old battleships. They'd been upgraded already, and had decades left in them. Plus imagine those things running on a nuclear reactor instead.

Those massively thick hulls would shrug off a suicide raft with nothing but damage to the paint, and there's little that's psychologically more demoralizing than hearing those shells whistle and roar in over your head for hours and hours, figuring every time the next one is coming for you...to make an enemy give up.

And we do still have enemies in terrorist-supporting regimes that have port cities.

K Frame

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"Plus imagine those things running on a nuclear reactor instead."

Something tells me that it would be FAR cheaper to build a new battleship instead of trying to fit a reactor into an existing ship.

"there's little that's psychologically more demoralizing than hearing those shells whistle and roar in over your head for hours and hours"

That's IF the enemy you want to shoot at is within range of a body of water capable of floating a battleship.

Battleships would have been useless in fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan.
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Manedwolf

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I don't know if they could afford steel that thick anymore for a ship hull. It'd all have to be imported. Or even they even know how to lay one like that anymore. Besides, all those ships were designed, AFAIK, to let you lift the entire powerplant out the same way it went in. The superstructure is lifted off via shipyard cranes, and the engines come out via cranes as well. Even civilian ships did that a lot back then, when they changed over from coal to oil propulsion. The engines were replaced via cranes.

They've moved to "fast and light", the problem being that as the Cole showed, they're vulnerable when in port. That thing had a pretty massive hole torn through the hull at the waterline, right where the old battleships' anti-torpedo armor is thickest.

Quote
That's IF the enemy you want to shoot at is within range of a body of water capable of floating a battleship.

Any time they dock for supplies loading or anything else, they're vulnerable to terrorist rafts.

Then there's Sunburns. The Iowas were designed with a three-level armor on top against aerial bombs:
Quote
The Iowa-class incorporate 3 layers of deck armoring. You have from top to bottom the Splinter Deck, the Bomb Deck, and the Main Armor Deck. The bomb deck is 1.5 inches STS plate, the main armor deck is 4.75 inches Class B armor laid on 1.25 inches STS plate and the splinter deck is 0.625 inches STS plate. The bomb deck is designed to detonate general purpose bombs on contact and arm armor piercing bombs so they will explode between the bomb deck and the main armor deck. Within the immune zone, the main armor deck is designed to defeat plunging shells which may penetrate the bomb deck. The splinter deck is designed to contain any fragments and pieces of armor which might be broken off from the main armor deck.

Sunburns approach fast, then pop up and slam down on the deck. Do any of our current ships have anything that'd counter that, really?

280plus

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But what about the children on the bus?  shocked

They went 'round and 'round....
No, that was the wheel!  shocked

 laugh
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280plus

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NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOO!! NOT THE WHY DID THEY EVER RETIRE THE BATTLESHIPS ARGUMENT AGAIN!!!!!!!   shocked   grin

"If you were a negro and you were an astronaut,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,You were out of work." laugh
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seeker_two

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That's IF the enemy you want to shoot at is within range of a body of water capable of floating a battleship.

Battleships would have been useless in fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Considering their firepower, they could probably blow a channel open big enough.....  grin
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

K Frame

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"Any time they dock for supplies loading or anything else, they're vulnerable to terrorist rafts."

Actually, probably not.

At least not in the manner of the USS Cole.

The Iowas had side belt armor a shade over 12" thick extending well below the waterline.

During WW II a Japanese suicide aircraft armed with a bomb slammed into the side of, I believe, the Wisconsin. It didn't even really dent the armor. Chipped the paint, though.
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Jamisjockey

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But the old battle wagons aren't cool stealthy things made from high speed low drag space polymers.  They don't look sexy on "today's" battlefield.
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280plus

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Quote
Chipped the paint, though
Oooo, I'll bet that PO'd the Bos'ns.   shocked

Meanwhile...

HEY CHINA!!  DID YOU SEE THAT?!?!  laugh

 grin
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charby

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I wonder if I can find a load using Unique and a 200gr LRN to develop the same amount of energy from my snubbie 38special. Wink
465,000 ft/sec out of a snubbie might generate a little more recoil than you'd find comfortable, especially if you're using an airweight . . .

Hmmm . . . compute powder charge . . . figure in efficiency & energy per grain . . . volume of case . . . compensate for nonlinearities . . .

260 lbs of powder will make a good starting load.

Compressing powder that much into a .38 case might require special loading techniques . . . it won't be neutron star density, but you WILL have to squish it down a bit . . . and the compression release when you fire it may make up for the flame propagation limit of the powder.

Better use new brass and a heavy crimp to contain it. (And you may have to use two hands when drawing the gun.)


Think dark matter... feed all 260lbs of the powder to Nibbler, want for him to poop and viol-ah
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Manedwolf

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But the old battle wagons aren't cool stealthy things made from high speed low drag space polymers.  They don't look sexy on "today's" battlefield.

Oh, I think this is plenty sexy. Look at the line of that bow! Nothing has that sort of curve in newer ships.



seeker_two

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I wonder if I can find a load using Unique and a 200gr LRN to develop the same amount of energy from my snubbie 38special. Wink
465,000 ft/sec out of a snubbie might generate a little more recoil than you'd find comfortable, especially if you're using an airweight . . .

Hmmm . . . compute powder charge . . . figure in efficiency & energy per grain . . . volume of case . . . compensate for nonlinearities . . .

260 lbs of powder will make a good starting load.

Compressing powder that much into a .38 case might require special loading techniques . . . it won't be neutron star density, but you WILL have to squish it down a bit . . . and the compression release when you fire it may make up for the flame propagation limit of the powder.

Better use new brass and a heavy crimp to contain it. (And you may have to use two hands when drawing the gun.)


Think dark matter... feed all 260lbs of the powder to Nibbler, want for him to poop and viol-ah

...or we could feed it to Ned and get white matter.....
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

K Frame

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SEXY?

Geez, why don't you just paint it PINK?

THIS is what a battleship is supposed to look like -- manly, pugnacious and brawny, but with ruggedly handsome lines!

I give you HMS Iron Duke, the best looking battleship to ever put to sea!

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charby

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The Bismarck was impressive.



Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

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RadioFreeSeaLab

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Meh, I like the Iowas.


280plus

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Hey, that last one is unrepping, that's classified dammit! You want the ruskies to find out how we do it?   shocked

 laugh
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RadioFreeSeaLab

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Uh oh, wikipedia must be a Ruskie spy front!