Author Topic: oh no! immigration reality hurts  (Read 37991 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #125 on: March 08, 2008, 08:06:29 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States

read it as slow as you need to  lil less than a mill in 2004 were irish 

heres some close to home  http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/03/15/IRISH.TMP



BAY AREA
Irish join battle over illegal immigration
St. Patrick's Day vehicle for activists seeking reform
Tyche Hendricks, Chronicle Staff Writer

Wednesday, March 15, 2006

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The Irish are standing up to be counted among the nation's illegal immigrants, hoping their civic appeal at St. Patrick's Day will soften the debate over immigration reform.

At St. Patrick's Day parades in San Francisco and Chicago last weekend, activists with the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform wore white-and-green T-shirts saying "Legalize The Irish" and passed out fliers urging people to call their elected representatives in support of allowing undocumented workers to earn legal status as guest workers. Similar activism is expected at parades in other cities in coming days.

Adding heft to the immigrants' message, Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern, who visited San Jose on Tuesday, plans to push President Bush for legal status for illegal Irish immigrants when he visits the White House on Friday, St. Patrick's Day.

Although most of this country's 11 million to 12 million illegal immigrants are from Mexico and Central America, about 50,000 Irish people are among 3 million illegal immigrants from countries outside Latin America. Other countries contributing significantly to illegal immigration are Russia, Poland, Canada, Haiti, Korea, India, China and the Philippines.

"We've had some very surprised reactions when they hear it is an issue for the Irish," said Celine Kennelly, executive director for the Irish Immigration Pastoral Center in San Francisco, an advice and referral service sponsored by the Irish Catholic Conference of Bishops.

"They are in as dire straits as any other ethnic group," said Kennelly, who estimates there are 3,000 to 4,000 Irish illegal immigrants in San Francisco, most working in construction, in restaurants or as nannies and caretakers for the elderly. "They cannot get driver's licenses, it's harder to open bank accounts, they cannot travel home and return again. ... The relationship between Ireland and America is so long and fantastic, but it's in danger now."

More than 250,000 Irish immigrants reside in the United States, according to the census, and most of them are here legally. But in recent decades, most arrivals from Ireland have overstayed their visas and become illegal immigrants, said Kennelly, because the government is issuing fewer work visas. A 1991 program offered legal permanent residence to about 16,000 undocumented Irish, but there has been no legalization plan since then.

Kennelly helped organize a town hall meeting in San Francisco this month that drew 1,000 Irish immigrants ready to campaign on the issue. And she was among 2,000 Irish people who rallied in Washington last week for guest-worker legislation sponsored by Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Edward Kennedy, D-Mass.

In Chicago on Friday, hundreds of Irish residents joined an unprecedented 100,000-strong rally opposing a bill that passed the House last year and another proposed that's scheduled to come to the Senate Judiciary Committee on Thursday that would make it a felony to be an illegal immigrant or to aid one.

"Most people thought it was just a Mexican thing, but it's not. It's Irish, Polish, Korean, Chinese," said Billy Lawless, the owner of two Chicago pubs who led a contingent called Celts for Immigration Reform. "If they want to deport the whole group, who's going to work in our kitchens? Who's going to work in our construction industry?"

Lawless compared the anti-immigrant sentiment he has encountered from groups like the Minutemen to the cold reception Irish immigrants received when they fled the potato famine in their homeland in the 19th century.

Illegal Irish immigrants, like those from other parts of Europe and Asia, generally enter the United States on a legitimate work, school or tourist visa and stay after it expires.

In the Bay Area, immigrant advocates plan a hunger strike and candlelight vigil all next week at the San Francisco Federal Building in a push for immigration reform. Organizer Sheila Chung said she expects participation from Irish immigrants, as well as Latino, Filipino, Chinese, Caribbean, Arab and others.

Irish participation -- motivated in part by Catholic archbishops -- can help advance the immigration-reform movement, said East Bay immigration lawyer Sarnata Reynolds, who is Irish by birth.

"They're a community that isn't viewed as 'bad.' People don't assume they might be undocumented," she said. "The Irish lobby has been very well organized
 



An Irish Face on the Cause of Citizenship
By NINA BERNSTEIN
March 16, 2006
The New York Times (See front page image here)

Rory Dolan's, a restaurant in Yonkers, was packed with hundreds of illegal Irish immigrants on that rainy Friday night in January when the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform called its first meeting. Niall O'Dowd, the chairman, (pictured, right) soon had them cheering.

"You're not just some guy or some woman in the Bronx, you're part of a movement," Mr. O'Dowd told the crowd of construction workers, students and nannies. He was urging them to support a piece of Senate legislation that would let them work legally toward citizenship, rather than punishing them with prison time, as competing bills would.

For months, coalitions of Latino, Asian and African immigrants from 50 countries have been championing the same measure with scant attention, even from New York's Democratic senators. But the Irish struck out on their own six weeks ago, and as so often before in the history of American immigration policy, they have landed center stage.

Last week, when Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton and Charles E. Schumer declared their support for a new path to citizenship, and denounced criminal penalties recently passed by the House of Representatives, they did so not at the large, predominantly Hispanic immigrant march on Washington, but at the much smaller Irish rally held there the following day.

Some in the immigrant coalitions resent being passed over, and worry that the Irish are angling for a separate deal. Others welcome the clout and razzmatazz the Irish bring to a beleaguered cause. And both groups can point to an extraordinary Irish track record of lobbying triumphs, like the creation of thousands of special visas in the 1980's and 90's that one historian of immigration, Roger Daniels, calls "affirmative action for white Europeans."

Mainly, though, they marvel at the bipartisan muscle and positive spin the illegal Irish can still muster, even as their numbers dwindle to perhaps 25,000 to 50,000 across the country  those left behind by a tide of return migration to a now-prosperous Ireland.

This week, as the Senate Judiciary Committee wrestles with a comprehensive immigration bill, towns across the country are preparing to celebrate their Irish roots. On Friday, St. Patrick's Day, President Bush is to meet with Ireland's prime minister, Bertie Ahern, who has vowed to put the legalization of the Irish at the top of his agenda. And Irish Lobby volunteers are ready to leverage the attention, with "Legalize the Irish" T-shirts and pressure on senators like Rick Santorum, Republican of Pennsylvania, who is in a tight race against Bob Casey Jr., a Democrat of Irish ancestry.

The new Irish dynamic is all the more striking because the Republican Party is fiercely split over immigration, and many Democrats have hung back from the fray, judging the issue too hot to handle in an election year.

"They're still good at the game," said Linda Dowling Almeida, who teaches the history of Irish immigration at New York University. She and other historians noted that in the mid-19th century, Irish immigrants used the clout of urban political machines and leadership by the Roman Catholic Church to beat back a nativist movement that saw them as a threat to national security and American culture.

More recently, Mr. O'Dowd, the publisher of The Irish Voice, was himself part of a lobby that leaned on legislators with Irish heritage to engineer more than 48,000 visas for the Irish, legalizing many who had re-greened old Celtic neighborhoods in New York, Boston and Philadelphia.

But much has changed. After 9/11, a groundswell of anger over illegal immigration converged with national security concerns, propelling a populist revolt across party lines. Immigration is now seen as a no-win issue in electoral politics. And both opponents and supporters of legalization take a more jaundiced view of the Irish role in the debate.

"They're essentially saying, 'Look, we're good European illegal immigrants,' " said Mark Krikorian, director of the Center for Immigration Studies, which supports the House and Senate measures that would turn "unlawful presence," now a civil violation, into a crime. "The reason they've been more successful is the same reason it appeals to editors  immigration nostalgia from 150 years ago."

He added: "Can they be bought off by a special program for a handful of remaining illegals? I'm not saying it's a good idea, but you just start talking about the old sod and singing 'Danny Boy,' and of course it's possible."

A special measure for the Irish would be hard to pass today, countered Muzaffar Chishti, the director of the New York office of Migration Policy Institute, a nonpartisan research organization that has generally supported immigrant amnesties. In earlier campaigns, he recalled, an Irish lobby worked with other immigrant groups, and all won pieces of their agenda.

"It was extremely important for the optics on Capitol Hill," Mr. Chishti said. "The Irish were also very savvy about it at that time. They knew that they would get some special Irish treatment, but they also wanted to make it look like they were part of the immigrant coalition."

Today, the lobby's most crucial role, he said, may be changing the political calculus of Democrats who have shunned the immigration issue as a no-win choice between responding to Latinos and looking tough on immigration. Many Irish-Americans are swing voters, he said, and "it becomes sort of a tipping point for the Democratic Party."

For now, Mr. O'Dowd said, the Irish Lobby's focus is entirely on supporting the McCain-Kennedy bill, which would allow illegal immigrants who qualify to pay a $2,000 fine and work toward citizenship. But if no such measure emerges from Congress, he added, the Irish Lobby will push for any special arrangement it can get  "as will every other ethnic group in the country."

Special visas for the Irish "would be brilliant," said Valery O'Donnell, a house cleaner and single mother of 7-year-old twins who was at the Rory Dolan's meeting, and said she had lived in New York illegally for 13 years. "There's no harm in us. We're all out here to work hard."

But several immigrant advocates in New York said that even the hint of special treatment for the Irish would inflame the hurt feelings that began in February when Senator Schumer first spoke out on immigration at an Irish Lobby event in Woodside, Queens, after declining invitations by veteran immigrant organizations more representative of an estimated 700,000 illegal immigrants in the state. The Pew Hispanic Center estimates that 78 percent of the nation's nearly 12 million illegal immigrants are from Mexico or elsewhere in Latin America.

Spokesmen for the two senators said that their appearances had been determined only by what fit their schedules, and that their support for immigrants was not meant for a specific group.

Some immigrant leaders were not convinced. Juan Carlos Ruiz, the coordinator of the predominantly Hispanic rally of 40,000 held March 7 on Capitol Hill, said that only one senator had shown up there, without speaking: Richard J. Durbin, an Illinois Democrat. The next day, Mr. Ruiz said, when he and his 14-year-old son stopped by the Irish gathering of about 2,400 and realized that the speakers included Senators Edward M. Kennedy, John McCain, as well as Senators Clinton and Schumer, his son asked, "Why didn't the senators come to our rally?"

"I was heartbroken," Mr. Ruiz said. "I needed to explain to him: 'The immigrants of color, for these senators we are not important enough for them to make a space in their calendar.' "

He added: "The Irish are not at fault. They are suffering the same troubles that we are. But it is discrimination."

Monami Maulik, a leader in another coalition, Immigrant Communities in Action, echoed his sentiment. "For a lot of us, this is a current civil rights struggle," she said.

But when the phrase was repeated to Mr. O'Dowd, he countered: "It's not about that at all. It's about how you change the law." For years, he added, he has lobbied to win nearly lost causes, including helping to broker a ceasefire in Northern Ireland. "It's not about being fair, it's about being good," he said. "It's about getting it done."

Matthew Swe
 

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #126 on: March 08, 2008, 08:13:59 PM »
An estimated 30,000 undocumented immigrants who aren't Latino live a more native-born life in New York.
April 8, 2007


Woodlawn, The Bronx  IMAGINE HILLARY Clinton holding up a T-shirt that read: "Legalize Mexicans." That's not going to happen, right?

Well, last month in Washington, at a rally hosted by the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform, the leading Democratic candidate for president actually did have her picture taken holding a shirt that read: "Legalize the Irish." That's the lobby's in-your-face slogan, which says a lot about the role that race (and ethnicity) plays in the debate about illegal immigration. Latino activists bend over backward trying to cloak undocumented Mexican migrants in the slogan "We are America," but their Irish counterparts don't feel similarly obliged.

There are an estimated 50,000 Irish illegal immigrants in the U.S.; 30,000 of them are thought to live in New York City. Today, this tiny corner in the northern reaches of the Bronx is perhaps the most heavily Irish-born neighborhood in New York, and advocates believe that as many as 40% of local immigrants are undocumented.

On Tuesday afternoon, I walked up Katonah Avenue, Woodlawn's main shopping street, trying to guess who was or wasn't here illegally. How about that blond woman walking with her child? Or perhaps the redhead in pink sweats? Surely the two rough-hewn construction workers enjoying a lunchtime beer at the Rambling House bar didn't have papers. Like the woman I met in California's Central Valley a few months ago who told me how odd it had been to see white people engaged in farm labor in Australia, it was a decidedly new sensation for me to suspect all the white people around me of being illegal.

"When I tell people I'm undocumented, it shocks them," said Mary Brennan, a nurse's aide who has lived in the U.S. for almost 17 years. "They think of JFK or Ronald Reagan, and they can't understand how an Irish person could be illegal."

Though Brennan shares the hardships of undocumented status with other illegal immigrants throughout the country  last year she was unable to attend her brother's funeral in Ireland for fear that she'd be denied reentry to the U.S.  she acknowledges that Irish illegals do have a slight advantage. It's all in the stereotypes  race-based, language-based, class-based.

Her friend, contractor Dermot Byrne, who also is here illegally, agrees. "From my experience, we're not singled out. If someone's driving down the street and they see five Mexican guys on one side and five Irish guys on the other, they're going to think that the Mexicans are illegal, even though it could be the other way around."

Despite his status, Byrne has placed a pro-immigration-reform sticker on his car, as well as Irish versions of an "I love Jalisco" decal that identify his and his wife's home counties in the old country.

Irish immigrant advocates are acutely aware that the American public doesn't identify the Irish as alien, let alone illegal, and they consciously leverage this positive prejudice to their advantage.

"The fact that they're white Europeans agitating for immigration reform is helpful," said Niall O'Dowd, chairman of the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform and publisher of the Irish Voice newspaper. "Bottom line is that every ethnic group brings their own strength to the debate. We can't put a million people in the street, but we have positive political identification and a lot of access to Democrats and Republicans."

There are 40 million Americans of Irish descent, and O'Dowd believes that a good portion of them, particularly the politicians, are sympathetic to the plight of illegal Irish immigrants. His office is filled with snapshots of him shoulder to shoulder with the likes of John McCain, Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy. "The key is to have sympathetic politicians of the same ethnic background," he said.

Seeking to put a white Irish face on the issue of illegal immigration, O'Dowd and the Irish Lobby sent a delegation of 3,000 undocumented workers to Washington last month, not to protest but to lobby U.S. lawmakers. "We Irish are good at playing politics from the inside," he said. "When politicians see that even the Irish can be undocumented, then they realize that there's something wrong with the immigration system."

But whites' more favorable view of illegal immigrants who look like them may not translate to the growing number of Americans whose ancestors do not hail from Europe. The Pakistani-born cab driver who took me from the subway station to Katonah Avenue said he generally found Irish immigrants to be nice, as well as good tippers. "But they won't rent you an apartment around here if you're not Irish," he said. "They don't want to mix with other races."

Damn immigrants.


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Paddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #127 on: March 08, 2008, 08:14:44 PM »
Do you even read what you post, cd? 

"Although most of this country's 11 million to 12 million illegal immigrants are from Mexico and Central America, about 50,000 Irish people are among 3 million illegal immigrants from countries outside Latin America."

According to the link provided, illegal immigration from Ireland comprises less that 1% of the 11 to 12 million illegal border jumping wetbacks.  And the Irish already speak English, so what is your point, anyway?

Jamisjockey

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #128 on: March 09, 2008, 04:10:49 AM »
Do you even read what you post, cd? 

"Although most of this country's 11 million to 12 million illegal immigrants are from Mexico and Central America, about 50,000 Irish people are among 3 million illegal immigrants from countries outside Latin America."

According to the link provided, illegal immigration from Ireland comprises less that 1% of the 11 to 12 million illegal border jumping wetbacks.  And the Irish already speak English, so what is your point, anyway?

He probably thinks I don't support sending white people packing  cheesy

Me, I don't care what color or language.  If they are here illegally, they are breaking our laws, and should be sent home.
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seeker_two

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #129 on: March 09, 2008, 04:26:44 AM »
Get legal or get out.....that's my stance.....
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

christopher

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #130 on: March 09, 2008, 05:20:23 AM »
no reality. no pain. Facts:


Crime:
   


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Institutionalizing illegal immigration creates a mindset in people that anything goes in the U.S. It creates a new subculture, with a sequela of social ills. - Patrick Ortega, News and Public-affairs Director of Radio Nueva Vida in southern California

In a statewide poll more Californians named crime as the most serious problem facing the state than any other issue, including education. With reason. California crime rates rose 3.2 percent in 2005 and homicides rose more than 4 percent. Robberies rose 5.2 percent and aggravated assaults by 2.6 percent. Many counties saw even more dramatic increases.

While experts differ on the causes of crime rate increases in our state, much of the evidence points to growing population densities and increasing poverty and unemployment. In many ways, we are importing danger when we leave our borders open to whoever wants to enter, and when we tolerate lawbreaking at the border.

In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) are for illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are also for illegal aliens. Illegal aliens comprise 75 percent of L.A.s Most Wanted list.

By the end of 2005, the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitations inmate count had risen to 195 percent of the prison systems capacity. Nearly 25 percent of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican illegal aliens. Currently, many are released early due to overcrowding, even felons.

Over the last 20 years, prison populations have surged in every state in the countrydoubling, and then doubling again. The United States now has more than two million people incarcerated. That's more than ever before, and more than any other country.





Water Supply:
   


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"Models show that even if we take action now to reduce emissions, we will still face serious stresses to water supply in California. Increases in [climate] temperature both decreases water availability while increasing demand. It will no longer just be a battle among the farming industry, the environmental groups and the cities, but those within each interest group will be competing with each other for water." - W. Michael Hanemann, professor of agricultural and resource economics and director of the California Climate Change Center at UC Berkeley

A 2004 study from UC Berkeley predicts that California will experience significantly hotter summers throughout this century, thanks to worsening air pollution, with resulting impacts on human health and the availability of water.

And Californians are no strangers to water shortages.

Farmers are already required to cut back on the water used for crops. The San Joaquin-Sacramento Delta, the major water source for two-thirds of the state, is increasingly challenged by its fragile levees and growing demands. By the year 2020, demands on our water supply will result in shortages of six to 14 percent per year.

California has been ordered to wean itself from the excess of 800,000 acre-feet of water over its legal allotment from the Colorado River each year, but we have no viable alternative source. Yet our state acquires new water users at a rate of at least 500,000 people per year through immigration. Continuing our unchecked population growth means accelerating and exacerbating predicted water shortages and demands for water.

                                                      BOYCOTT:

                                               Wells  Fargo,  BofA,  Tyson Foods,                                             Miller  Brewing   











Jobs:  Selling  Out  Americans:
   


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Working America is facing a crisis. Its a jobs crisis and its the number one issue facing Americans. Despite our so-called recovery, far too many people are out of work, and many have been out of work for a long time. - Former AFL-CIO President John Sweeney

Growing numbers of Californians and Americans in general, are being displaced by lower cost legal and illegal immigrant workers. Farmers, contractors, and businesses see cheap foreign labor as a way to cut costs and increase profits.

Of particular concern is the glut of professional H-1B visa workers in the tech industry. By lobbying Congress, tech companies have helped continue to raise the number of H-1B visas issued annually to foreign workers. These companies aggressively recruit foreign workers willing to work longer hours for less benefits and lower salaries. In the past 10 years, 890,000 American high tech workers were forced to train their replacements on the job.

The tech industry claims shortages of high-tech workers, but even this year the number of H1-B visas issued exceeded the number of jobs created by the industry.

The result is thousands of Californians who are either unemployed or underemployed. The impact is especially brutal on minorities who are often overlooked by employers in favor of cheap foreign and often illegal labor.

Nationally, some estimates for the number of American workers displaced by immigration each year are as high as two million.

And then theres wage depression. By adding millions of newcomers to the work force who are willing to work for Third World wages, we are creating unfair competition and lower-wage jobs for all workers. Not surprisingly, immigration is credited with 40 to 50 percent of the wage depression in recent decades for workers without a high school degree.





Energy Crisis:
   


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An unreliable energy system discourages businesses from locating or even remaining in California, resulting in lost jobs and state revenues.  California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger

In an average year, California adds over 500,000 to its already burgeoning population; employers create about 250,000 new jobs; and developers construct approximately 200,000 new housing units. This type of record-breaking growth brings immense increases in demand for energy and other resources. How can we cope with this new level of demand? Will California have the energy it needs?

Part of the problem is poor planning by the state and its utilities and aging power plantsbut population is also a key factor.

Despite improvements in power plant licensing, enormously successful energy efficiency programs, and continued technological advances, development of new energy supplies in California is not keeping pace with the state's increasing demand. Construction of new power plants has lagged and the number of new plant permit applications has decreased.

While the Energy Crisis of 2000-2001 seems a part of the distant past, a 2004 report by the California Energy Commission predicted a recurrence of the crisis, beginning as early as 2006. Electricity rates, although not as erratic as during the 2000-2001 energy crisis, are still among the highest in the nation, forcing businesses to struggle to maintain profit margins as the cost of doing business in the state rises.

Energy demand will only continue to rise with California's rapidly growing population. Weather-adjusted electricity consumption in California increases at an average of two percent every year.

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION ONLY HELPS CORPORATIONS & we get stuck with the bill.

Will the person who started this post explain how "illegal" immigrants benefit me, or the social security mess or the water shortage, nurse shortage, teacher shortage or prison overcrowding or congested highways?Huh?

The Rabbi

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #131 on: March 09, 2008, 06:24:18 AM »
Maybe you'd care to explain why you and Rabbi are so pro illegal immigration?
I am not pro-illegal immigration.  That is a canard.
I am pro legal immigration.  A legal immigration that recognizes the basic right of "pursuit of happiness" as enshrined in the Declaration.  A legal immigration that recognizes the economic reality that people come here to work because people here are looking for workers.
The only way to make that a reality is to change the current system to an instant-check visa and/or guest worker program.
Yes, that would probably bring X million more aliens here.  So what?  What are you worried about?  Would probably drop the price of Dos Equis.
Fight state-sponsored Islamic terrorism: Bomb France now!

Vote Libertarian: It Not Like It Matters Anyway.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #132 on: March 09, 2008, 07:47:09 AM »
"In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) are for illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are also for illegal aliens. Illegal aliens comprise 75 percent of L.A.s Most Wanted list."

interesting statement  been debunked a dozen times  maybe you could support it?
if not go back to your usual function  making the paulista look sane and well grounded by comparison

as rabbi pointed out crime in the land of granola has fallen  the murder rate has halved between 93 and 99 evenn as the brown horde invaded and is today at a 60% reduction from the 1990 level even as the poulkation grew by 6 mill

your "votestrike" site has some credibilty issues  and a familiar miasma rises from it


key line from this part is
Despite improvements in power plant licensing, enormously successful energy efficiency programs, and continued technological advances, development of new energy supplies in California is not keeping pace with the state's increasing demand. Construction of new power plants has lagged and the number of new plant permit applications has decreased.

lil less treehugging or a lil less whining please


and the prison problem is easy reform immigration and free up all those beds used for folks held on strictly immigration charges.  abandon the war on some drugs and we need to find jobs for a million inmates plus all the newly unemployed guards dea agents etc

Paddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #133 on: March 09, 2008, 12:28:31 PM »
Quote
for myself i'm 1/2 japanese 1/2 irish  black irish  to some folks i look latino or native american.

So your entire pro illegal immigration motive is simply your own anti white racism-because you think you look latino?  Is that what this is about?Huh??

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #134 on: March 09, 2008, 12:38:13 PM »
hardly

you got up to answering the questions posed to you? or they fall outside your comfort zone

Paddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #135 on: March 09, 2008, 02:26:50 PM »
I don't know what questions you're talking about.  Your OP started with some nonsensical statistics, and I immediately questioned you about them in my post #2 (Reply#1).  Instead of answering my questions, you proceed to post some other 'proof' from that wacked out Reason website.  Your Wikipedia link, in addition to being nothing but someone's opinion, has three big DISCLAIMERS at the top. One about neutrality and factuality, and the other about grammar.  And you call this a 'cite'.

All I can say is you're hilarious, cd.  You seem to think you're really making some kind of argument, I guess.  laugh

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #136 on: March 09, 2008, 02:45:51 PM »
here ya go riley its a short one
why don't you explain how with the brown horde of crimnals coming in the crime rate hasn't gone up

Paddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #137 on: March 09, 2008, 03:01:33 PM »
here ya go riley its a short one
why don't you explain how with the brown horde of crimnals coming in the crime rate hasn't gone up

Because the majority of illegal aliens are not Mexicans.  They're Irish, and the Irish are hardworking, peaceful people.  grin

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #138 on: March 09, 2008, 03:06:38 PM »
theres that aroma again

check with the cameraden at srturmfront and get an answer if you can

and leave that bucket of fish at home

Paddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #139 on: March 09, 2008, 03:09:31 PM »
You just got through telling me that 1) the crime rate is down, 2) Illegal Irish immigration is the primary problem.  It's the only conclusion to be drawn from your 'arguments'. Yet put 2+2 together, and it's 'srturmfront'.  rolleyes

You win the Godwin award.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #140 on: March 09, 2008, 03:12:42 PM »
dodge v 2.0  or is it 3.0? its ok if you don't have an answer  you really aren't expected to.

The Rabbi

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #141 on: March 09, 2008, 03:19:28 PM »
You just got through telling me that 1) the crime rate is down, 2) Illegal Irish immigration is the primary problem.  It's the only conclusion to be drawn from your 'arguments'. Yet put 2+2 together, and it's 'srturmfront'.  rolleyes

You win the Godwin award.
No one said illegal Irish immigration is the primary problem.  Show us one post where anyone said that.
The fact is that the majority of illegals are Mexican.  Fine.
Now answer the question: if illegals are causing a crime wave, then why is it crime has decreased precisely in those places with the highest rate of illegal immigration?
Fight state-sponsored Islamic terrorism: Bomb France now!

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #142 on: March 09, 2008, 03:28:23 PM »
i don't believe any of his sources have issued an aswer yet  so we might be subject to more dodging. and that darn smell

Paddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #143 on: March 09, 2008, 03:34:58 PM »
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Now answer the question: if illegals are causing a crime wave, then why is it crime has decreased precisely in those places with the highest rate of illegal immigration?

OK, let's get serious.  First, I don't think you've established 1) the crime rate has decreased 2) where the places with the 'highest rate of illegal immigration' are.

Because I can demonstrate that illegal immigration places an untenable burden on hospitals, local government police services, county welfare services, and state prisons.  To the tune of billions every year.

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #144 on: March 09, 2008, 03:39:55 PM »
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Now answer the question: if illegals are causing a crime wave, then why is it crime has decreased precisely in those places with the highest rate of illegal immigration?

OK, let's get serious.  First, I don't think you've established 1) the crime rate has decreased 2) where the places with the 'highest rate of illegal immigration' are.

Because I can demonstrate that illegal immigration places an untenable burden on hospitals, local government police services, county welfare services, and state prisons.  To the tune of billions every year.
No, I've established both those things.
No one has asked about untenable burdens on hospitals.  We have asked about lower crime rates even with high rates of illegal immigration.
So get serious and answer the question.
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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #145 on: March 09, 2008, 03:47:18 PM »
OK, Rabbi.  In reviewing your posts here, I fail to see any link to a reliable source for your premise.  I may have missed it, so please point to the post number.  Thank you.

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #146 on: March 09, 2008, 03:52:05 PM »
OK, Rabbi.  In reviewing your posts here, I fail to see any link to a reliable source for your premise.  I may have missed it, so please point to the post number.  Thank you.
It's in a different thread.
But if you search for crime stats for CA you will readily find it.
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Paddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #147 on: March 09, 2008, 04:18:57 PM »
OK, found 'em.  I think these are the stats you linked http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/cacrime.htm
Let me study them for awhile and check with the CA AG's office.  I will get back to you with an answer.

christopher

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #148 on: March 09, 2008, 08:22:35 PM »
1.*The estimated number of violent crime offenses in 2006 was more than 1.4 million (1,417,745) offenses, an increase of 1.9 percent over the 2005 estimate.

SOURCE:Bureau of Justice Statistics                                (www.ojp.usdoj.gov)

2.*28%  of  federal  inmates  are  here  illegally.

SOURCE for- www.votestrike.com -

Most stats or figures found on this site come from the government:  GAO, Census  Bureau,  Commerce  Dept.,  Bureau  of  Labor  Statistics,  etc.  Whenever  those  numbers  are  in  dispute  or  in  question  we'll  say  so  within  the  text.
http://www.fedstats.gov
DESCRIPTION:  The Federal Interagency Council on Statistical Policy maintains this site to provide easy access to the full range of statistics and information produced by more than 70 U.S. Federal Government agencies for public use.

ANY QUESTIONS?

i asked how can shipping jobs over seas to cheap foreign labor & then inviting in cheap foreign labor help my wages, benefits, over crowded schools, roads, hospitals, prisons, etc, etc?

Or are you dodging that question?

it is time to set aside our differences, don't let the politicians divide us with wedge issues. come together not as republicans or democrats but as Americans...no more broken homes, no more broken families, no more broken communities, no more broken borders, no more broken government...lets vote them all out!

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #149 on: March 10, 2008, 03:36:25 AM »
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it is time to set aside our differences, don't let the politicians divide us with wedge issues. come together not as republicans or democrats but as Americans...no more broken homes, no more broken families, no more broken communities, no more broken borders, no more broken government...lets vote them all out!

We tried that and all we got were a bunch of Democrat shills who want a new lower class to entitle.
JD

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