why doesn't the Conservative Party put forth a candidate?

[xavier fremboe]

It should be up to the states.

I concur.

[Tallpine]

Well, that makes three of us.  Now why doesn't the country follow our majority

[MicroBalrog]

For some reason I imagine Nevadan 16-year-old girls traveling to California for abortions.

[xavier fremboe]

Well, that makes three of us.  Now why doesn't the country follow our majority

Pretty simple, I think.  The part of the country that doesn't agree that it should be left up to the states is infinitely impressed with the power off fed.gov.  We virtually lose from the get-go.

[Perd Hapley]

For some reason I imagine Nevadan 16-year-old girls traveling to California for abortions.

You mean, the way under-age girls in their third trimester travel are brought by their 25-year-old baby-daddy's to Illinois and Kansas for their PBA's? 

Although recent legislation may have changed that. 

[MicroBalrog]

Yes.

Of course, then we'll have some idiot stretch interstate commerce to cover abortions.

Then we'll be back at square one.

[yesitsloaded]

I always looked at it as an issue of free will. I'm ok with drug use by others that choose to be idiots while killing a child that has no say in the matter is a human rights infringement. MOST abortions are just a way for irresponsible people to get out of having to raise a child and having to act like a responsible parent. People don't magically end up pregnant. I consider taxpayer funded abortions when the mother's life isn't threatened to be the same as paying for surgery for someone that shot them self in the head while drunk or dove into an empty swimming pool. I don't mind drug use as long as people will be responsible for their actions, which is the exact opposite of an abortion.

[MicroBalrog]

No taxpayer-funded abortions except in the case of true medical emergencies, yes.

How expensive IS an abortion, anyway?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Manedwolf]

The problem is, there's no incentive to NOT get pregnant unless you threaten to cut off the statist gravy train of welfare.

[mek42]

I can't support anti-abortion laws until we have a working adoption system and a much lower tolerance system of preventing recurrant child abuse (given that it will be very difficult to prevent the pre-reporting abuses).  Without these systems in place, I fail to see how sentencing an unborn child to 15 - 20 years of an abusive / neglectful environment is better than just killing the child at the beginning.  Maybe some people who become parents due to not being able to get an abortion would rise to the challenge and become reasonably good parents, but this will not work across the board.

Until these two systems are significantly revamped (which may prove too burdensome as a cost to the taxpayer and/or too intrusive of privacy to the non-abusive parents) I think the best way to prevent abortions is on the local community level of helping mothers-to-be (parents-to-be in the cases where there'd be two parents) either seek adoptive parents and / or help them rise to the challenge of parenthood.  This would be in the form of both money and time at the prenatal and post-birth levels.  Mere legislation without doing anything to support parents who would otherwise have had abortions does nothing for the children other than to increase the resentment the parents might have toward the children.

I remember hearing a news story about a Democrat representative from downstate NY (NYC or Long Island) and his family took in one of his daughter's pregnant high school friends after she was kicked out by her parents (the friend) so that the friend would have the child and be able to better care for it while finishing school.  (This story is from a year or two ago and I do not remember if the gentleman was a national or state level representative.  He was not one of the two Federal Senators though.)

If anti-abortion laws are passed with the current adoption / child abuse systems in place then the gov't should also be responsible for providing full mental health services to abused and neglected children even after they become adults.

[Tallpine]

I think the best way to prevent abortions is on the local community level of helping mothers-to-be (parents-to-be in the cases where there'd be two parents) either seek adoptive parents and / or help them rise to the challenge of parenthood.

There are folks doing this very thing.  They usually call them "Crisis Pregnancy Centers."

[Perd Hapley]

I think the best way to prevent abortions is on the local community level of helping mothers-to-be (parents-to-be in the cases where there'd be two parents) either seek adoptive parents and / or help them rise to the challenge of parenthood.

There are folks doing this very thing.  They usually call them "Crisis Pregnancy Centers."

Why yes.  There are a lot of them. 

I fail to see how sentencing an unborn child to 15 - 20 years of an abusive / neglectful environment is better than just killing the child at the beginning.

Well, if you completely mis-characterize the issue, it is easy to craft a persuasive argument for your view. 

[MicroBalrog]

The problem is, there's no incentive to NOT get pregnant unless you threaten to cut off the statist gravy train of welfare.

Don't people generally give welfare payouts to those who DO give birth to a child, rather than those who don't?

Did I miss a memo here?

[mek42]

I think the best way to prevent abortions is on the local community level of helping mothers-to-be (parents-to-be in the cases where there'd be two parents) either seek adoptive parents and / or help them rise to the challenge of parenthood.

There are folks doing this very thing.  They usually call them "Crisis Pregnancy Centers."

Why yes.  There are a lot of them. 

I fail to see how sentencing an unborn child to 15 - 20 years of an abusive / neglectful environment is better than just killing the child at the beginning.

Well, if you completely mis-characterize the issue, it is easy to craft a persuasive argument for your view. 

How am I mis-characterizing things here?  I'm not making a pro-choice argument here, it is a welfare of the child argument.  There's no intent of deception to make a point here.  If I am not properly understanding something please educate me.

[xavier fremboe]

The problem is, there's no incentive to NOT get pregnant unless you threaten to cut off the statist gravy train of welfare.

Don't people generally give welfare payouts to those who DO give birth to a child, rather than those who don't?

Did I miss a memo here?

It amazes me that I can only afford two kids, but some folks on welfare can afford six. 

[Perd Hapley]

How am I mis-characterizing things here?  I'm not making a pro-choice argument here, it is a welfare of the child argument.  There's no intent of deception to make a point here.  If I am not properly understanding something please educate me.   

Perhaps it would be more diplomatic to say that you misunderstand the issue.  I'm at work right now.  I'll try and get back to you. 

[Manedwolf]

The problem is, there's no incentive to NOT get pregnant unless you threaten to cut off the statist gravy train of welfare.

Don't people generally give welfare payouts to those who DO give birth to a child, rather than those who don't?

Did I miss a memo here?

It amazes me that I can only afford two kids, but some folks on welfare can afford six. 

You're doing it wrong. You probably buy them stuff and pay attention to them and plan for college.

You're supposed to dress them in the most ill-fitting, cheapest clothing possible, not even apparently ever wash then, give them a corn-syrup-and-water drink and something off the McDonalds dollar menu, then leave them in front of the TV for eight hours while you smoke a whole carton of cigarettes you bought with the rest of the welfare check.

[gunsmith]

"Crisis Pregnancy Centers."

There is one around the corner from me.

I fail to see how sentencing an unborn child to 15 - 20 years of an abusive / neglectful environment is better than just killing the child at the beginning.

My dad got arrested twice for child abuse, me and my siblings had a pretty bad time of it.

I fail to see how my execution would have contributed to my well being.
Though I'm sure some of the liberals I debate had wished I had been executed.

Lots of people have grown up in abusive / neglectful homes and gone on to great things.

Killing someone because their parents are abusive / neglectful seems pretty abusive / neglectful itself.

I just bought a book (first edition) written by M Sanger called "women and the new race"
 Sangar was the founder of "planned parenthood" she believed that abortion and infanticide would lead to a "new race" similar to Hitlers dream of a "master race"

This new race didn't seem to include anyone other then white people related to the Pilgrims, and they had to be physically perfect too, Hawkins according to Sangar the founder of "planned parenthood"  wouldn't have had a useful productive life and it was the kinder thing to kill him at childbirth.

[HK-91-762MM]

Im always over at THR.
 I stopped buy an Got all worked up here !!!!
 Im an owner of many many EBRs .  I usually vote for the guy with the R after his name .
   I support ABORTION IN ALL WAYS ! Its the 2nd issue on my list Guns first..
 I hate -YES hate the people who wish to force there religion on me =you want to force ideas on people =Move to Russia /Cuba  and have at it .as to peacefull christians -Calling for the killing of abortion/birth control doctors and nurses is a good as ALF/Peta /Hsus burning farms and calling for the murder of hunters.
  I can never support a conservitive --If it means someone sticking the Jessus into my bed room !
 Now you wonder why conservitives cant get elected?

[gunsmith]

"conservitives" do not get elected conservatives do.

I support ABORTION IN ALL WAYS

Then you're a minority, even most liberals do not support partial birth abortions.

The pro abortion R's usually support gun control too. (Rudy/Arnold)