Author Topic: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...  (Read 6579 times)

Manedwolf

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I love weird stuff like this...

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Scientists puzzle over source of county hot spots
A burning question

By Zeke Barlow
Wednesday, August 6, 2008

High atop a steep grass-covered mountain overlooking the Little Sespe Canyon near Fillmore, the earth is on fire.

Wisps of smoke rise from a brown patch of grass that looks like it was toasted under an oven's broiler. Deep down, under the dirt, rocks and grass, something is smoldering and burning, sending smoke through cracks in the parched soil.

It's being called a natural anomaly, a geological whodunit, a scientific puzzler. And it's the second time that scientists have been scratching their heads over the fact the earth under Ventura County is burning.

In 2004, a patch of land northwest of Ojai burned so hot, it started a brush fire that scorched three acres in Los Padres National Forest. Firefighters cleared the grass from the newest area of hot earth near Fillmore on Friday so the same thing won't happen..

Though the outcome of both circumstances is the same  ground hot enough to delaminate boot soles  the reasons they started are likely very different. But both are equally fascinating to those who make their living examining rocks and sediment.

"This is a lot of fun," said Allen King, a former geologist with the U.S. Forest Service who has studied both sites. "I'm retired, but this is what I love to do."

The leading theory behind the latest hot spot is that gas or oil or some other hydrocarbon deep in the soil caught fire and is burning, pushing ground temperatures to 812 degrees. What ignited it or when it started burning is a whole other question.

"We don't know how long this particular thing has been burning," King said.

Firefighters have responded to the area five times since 1987, at times dumping water into the ground to try to quash the flames. King said a landslide hit the area within the past 100 years or so, possibly creating enough friction to start a fire. Another theory is that the land is so dry and parched that all moisture has been sapped from the ground, making it more susceptible to ignition. King said it's possible that some spark on land caused the underground blaze. How long it will burn is anyone's guess.

Such fires aren't uncommon in areas where there is a high concentration of gas or oil underground, he said.

But while the origins of this fire may be a relatively common phenomenon, the one near Ojai is still a puzzle.

"We've been researching it for a while and don't have all the answers," said Scott Minor, a U.S. Geological Survey researcher based in Denver who has made multiple trips to the site. "It's like detective work."

He and other scientists, including King, are hoping to publish a paper on their findings that may be a geologic first.

The anomaly was discovered after the land got so hot, it started a brush fire and burned three acres. Their theory is that there are high concentrations of pyrite  commonly called fool's gold  deep in the earth that were oxidized and converted to another mineral when a flush of oxygen was introduced after a landslide. The oxygen could have come from new fissures in the earth.

The process of converting to a new mineral was an exothermic reaction, releasing heat that could have sparked old carbon-based material  decayed wood or plants  that started the underground blaze.

King stuck a thermometer 14 inches into the ground and got a reading of 550 degrees. One time, the ground was so hot, the glue holding the sole of his boots melted. Grass can burn at 300 degrees.

"After that we were more cautious about standing in one place for too long," he said.

Minor said if a landslide were indeed a factor, it could be a new geologic discovery. The research group he's working with would like to drill down into the earth to see if the materials support the theory but is faced with a few hurdles. The first is funding and the second is the fact that the area is in the Dick Smith Wilderness, where no machinery is permitted.

Until then, the scientists are having fun trying to solve the puzzle.

"It's always neat when you explore something that is new and something that hasn't been documented before," Minor said. "It's fun to speculate, but it's a lot more satisfying when you can nail it down."
E.W. Scripps Co.

http://www.venturacountystar.com/news/2008/aug/06/a-burning-question-scientists-puzzle-over-source/

Standing Wolf

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2008, 05:07:46 AM »
Well, heck. Tax it.
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Ben

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2008, 05:20:52 AM »
That's just down the road a piece from me. I used to backpack Sespe canyon a lot. There's natural hot springs scattered throughout. This is the first time I've heard of this though.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Dntsycnt

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2008, 05:26:54 AM »
That's awesome.

I blame demons.  Has to be demons.

El Tejon

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2008, 05:40:02 AM »
Burritos?  They can be like demons.
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Paragon

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2008, 05:43:59 AM »
So apparently Hell is under California.  Who would have guessed?   cheesy

Manedwolf

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2008, 05:45:45 AM »
That's awesome.

I blame demons.  Has to be demons.

As long as they don't dig deeply there, looking for mithril... Wink

The Annoyed Man

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2008, 05:46:53 AM »
Funny, I thought Hell was California...

My mistake.

MechAg94

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2008, 05:55:31 AM »
Sounds like they need an oil/gas well.  Smiley
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2008, 06:14:20 AM »
Just spitballing with my vast geological knowledge, but sounds like an oil reservoir met up with a lava flow.  In California, where we can't drill for oil to alleviate pressure and we have a lot of earthquakes and we have a volcanic mountain chain, the possibility of the confluence of lava and fossil fuels is there.

Drill there, drill now!  Think of the grass children.
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seeker_two

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2008, 06:43:01 AM »

Drill there, drill now!  Think of the grass children.

Is that what they're calling the stoners now?....  cool
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The Annoyed Man

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2008, 06:46:13 AM »
finally an explanation for spontaneous combustion?

280plus

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2008, 07:29:19 AM »
Well sir, I know the abandoned coal mines under Scranton, PA caught fire and burned for years. I remember in the 70's they were pumping slurry down into them to put it out. Apparently they succeeded because the last time I was there I so no signs of the work or equipment anymore.
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mtnbkr

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2008, 07:36:33 AM »
Centralia, Pa is still burning I believe.

Chris

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2008, 07:38:02 AM »
Too bad Paddy wasn't still around.  He would tell us how it is Bush's fault and if we all would drive a Prius it would help also.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2008, 07:43:36 AM »
Centralia, Pa is still burning I believe.

Chris

It is. There are journal websites. Only a few houses left, and a sad stone with a time capsule to be opened on the next centennial. It was placed well before the fire.

mtnbkr

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2008, 07:44:21 AM »
I mapquested the trip from here to there once.  It's a bit far for a day trip.  I'd like to check it out in person.

Chris

K Frame

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2008, 07:51:45 AM »
I grew up not too terribly far from Centralia, about 70 miles, IIRC.

I was there a number of times while the town was still inhabited, and once since.

There's not a lot to see.

Some whisps of steam and smoke from vents, a few houses that are still occupied, and sections of roads that used to serve the town. Virtually all of the houses have been torn down.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

K Frame

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2008, 07:56:21 AM »
Here ya go.

A picture of the borough of Centralia...

Or what used to be the borough.

Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

Manedwolf

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2008, 08:14:11 AM »
Creepiest bit I'd read from a visit in 2000:

Quote

The fire continues and has moved up into the cemetery, smoke visible wafting up from around the gravestones.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2008, 08:25:15 AM »
It must, surely, be the fault of the Evil Capitalists, raping the planet.
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mike

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2008, 08:39:26 AM »
fistful, you know it's your fault. Own up to it!! grin

280plus

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2008, 08:45:41 AM »
Apparently there's quite a few mine fires burning here and there in PA.
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Tallpine

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2008, 08:54:33 AM »
There's a coal seam on the other side of our county that's been burning since a massive forest fire in 1984.

Every now and then it pops to the surface and starts another wildfire.
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Ben

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Re: Strange CA thermal anomaly makes ground temp rise to 812 degrees...
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2008, 09:48:35 AM »
Quote
Drill there, drill now!  Think of the grass children.

Actually the Fillmore area is part of the local oil patch. It's the coastal waters we're trying to get them to drill in around here.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."