Author Topic: Man Arrested for Threatening Obama  (Read 1956 times)

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,404
  • I'm an Extremist!
Man Arrested for Threatening Obama
« on: August 09, 2008, 05:28:23 AM »
I found it interesting that the charges stem around a threat to assassinate Obama, a presidential candidate, but not around Bush, a sitting President, who's life was also threatened.

Tangent note -- regardless of whether this guy is a nut job or not, the Secret Service affidavit (link at article site) is interesting reading from the "search and seizure" perspective. Are idiots still of the belief that "Black Talon" pistol ammo is armor piercing? Also, do I need to hide my GPS from the cops?

------------------------------
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/08/new-details-man-held-for-alleged-obama-assassination-threat/

August 8, 2008
New Details: Man held for alleged Obama assassination threat
Posted: 06:18 AM ET

From CNN National Correspondent Susan Candiotti
Raymond Hunter Geisel is being held on charges that he threatened to assassinate Sen. Barack Obama.
Raymond Hunter Geisel is being held on charges that he threatened to assassinate Sen. Barack Obama.

MIAMI, Florida (CNN)  A man was being held in Florida on Thursday on charges he told classmates at a training seminar that he would kill Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama if he is elected, according to a law enforcement official and court documents.

The threats came just days before Obama was scheduled to visit Florida and were made by a person discovered to have ammunition, a handgun and other weapons, authorities said.

An affidavit filed by a Secret Service agent in U.S. District Court claims that Raymond Hunter Geisel, of Marathon, Florida, threatened to "kill, kidnap and cause bodily harm upon a major candidate for president of the United States, that is, Senator Barack Obama."

A search of Geisel's vehicle and a hotel room in Miami, where Geisel was attending a bail bondsman training class, found a 9-mm handgun, ammunition that included armor-piercing and rifle bullets, police-style emergency lights, body armor, a machete and two canisters of tear gas, among other military-style items, according to the document.

Agents say that classmates of Geisel reported that, between July 25-28, Geisel used a racial slur toward Obama and said "if he gets elected, I'll assassinate him myself."

A classmate said that, one day after class, she also heard Geisel say "that he hated George W. Bush and that he wanted to put a bullet in the president's head."

Obama made several campaign stops in Florida on Friday, a day before federal agents arrested Geisel at a Holiday Inn Express in Miami.

During an interview with the Secret Service, Geisel said he couldn't remember whether he threatened Obama and the president, but told agents that "if he wanted to kill Senator Obama he would simply shoot him with a sniper rifle."

He later said that comment was a joke, the agent said in the document.

Geisel also said he has post-traumatic stress disorder, which affects his memory, and had once checked himself into a psychiatric institution for treatment.

The affidavit, signed by Special Agent Charles R. Adie, said Geisel "generally provided no excuse" for why he had the weapons and other items  claiming that he collects some of them, that the handgun was for target practice during the bail bondsman course and that he uses the machete and a hatchet for cutting through brush in Maine, where he lived most of his life before moving to Florida in January.

On Thursday, U.S. Magistrate Judge Stephen T. Brown ordered that Geisel be held in jail until his trial, calling him a danger to the community and a risk to run away before his date in court.

The judge noted that Geisel lives on a sailboat, is unemployed and has no strong ties to the Florida area.

Geisel is scheduled to appear in court on August 18. If he has been officially indicted by then, he would enter a plea. If not, it would merely be a preliminary hearing on the charges.

 Click here to read the Secret Service affidavit
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: Man Arrested for Threatening Obama
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2008, 05:32:50 AM »
So now we need an "excuse" to own legal weapons ?  shocked
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

never_retreat

  • Head Muckety Muck
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,158
Re: Man Arrested for Threatening Obama
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2008, 05:51:19 AM »
deleted



Dude -- don't go there

I needed a mod to change my signature because the concept of "family friendly" eludes me.
Just noticed that a mod changed my signature. How long ago was that?
A few months-mods

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Re: Man Arrested for Threatening Obama
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2008, 06:11:57 AM »
Quote
I found it interesting that the charges stem around a threat to assassinate Obama, a presidential candidate, but not around Bush, a sitting President, who's life was also threatened.

Perhaps threatening to kill a messiah carries more weight than threatening to kill the president? Tongue

Also:

Quote
found a 9-mm handgun, ammunition that included armor-piercing and rifle bullets

While armor-piercing 9mm exists, it's old and extremely rare, since it's not produced here anymore. I would bet you it was either:

1. Winchester SXT, Ranger or "Black Talon" or some other maker's coated rounds, even Hornady TAP, which looks all scary grey and stuff.

2. The ammunition WAS rifle ammunition, thereby "armor-piercing", since nearly any rifle ammunition will go through Level II, and even Level III without trauma plates. Just as a basic fact.

3. The ammo was something on the order of old 30-06 blacktip, a favorite of people in Florida to go out to the Everglades and punch holes through junked vehicles and/or fridges with. 

I hate to think what they'd think of a box of Tokarev. While he may be a nut, what happens if someone doesn't like someone, and accuses them of making a threat while they know they have their range bag in the car?  sad

In addition, it was mentioned in another article that the "police-style emergency" lights were not blue, which is illegal, but red and yellow, which is legal. At least, it was. I knew a lot of people who kept machetes around in Florida, too...they're a lawn tool there!

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,532
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: Man Arrested for Threatening Obama
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2008, 06:14:33 AM »
Provided no excuse? 

He's a BAIL BONDSMAN!!   Is it possible a Secret Service agent could NOT know what that profession involves?  Huh?
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Man Arrested for Threatening Obama
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2008, 04:53:34 PM »
the secret service takes stuff real serious. in a drunken stupor in 80 or 81 i was alleged to have made some remarks about ted kennedy when i was in a blackout in bullfeathers. when i got to work at the kennedy center at 3 the next day i got a fairly serious interview from2 agents who scared me pretty good. thankfully i was deemed a drunken blowhard and it ended there. i never made that mistake again. i almost got canned and the job came with free tickets that i woulda missed
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

The Annoyed Man

  • New Member
  • Posts: 1
Re: Man Arrested for Threatening Obama
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2008, 06:05:02 PM »
I read about this.

My thoughts:

The kid either is somewhat immature, or has a horrible sense of humor.  Some of the stuff he had was a little weird for a short stay in a hotel for a class, but nothing that screams of absolute obvious intent to commit a crime.  Weird though.

I'm surprised the SS agent didn't know the difference between AP ammo and HP ammo, not that it even mattered in this case as it's not illegal either way.

Kid sounds like he might benefit from a psych evaluation to make sure all is well, but other than that it's been blown out of proportion.

Some people say stupid things.  Others, like this kid, say stupid things that make the previously mentioned stupid things sound intelligent.  Then, the media says stupid things on top of the already incredibly stupid things said by the dullest of the dull, which often result in immediate spontaneous combustion of the unfortunate reader.  This, is an example of the latter.

geronimotwo

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,796
Re: Man Arrested for Threatening Obama
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2008, 05:56:20 AM »
Quote
The judge noted that Geisel lives on a sailboat

obviously, he was a real threat. a person who has an ocean crossing getaway vehicle must be planning something horrendous.
make the world idiot proof.....and you will have a world full of idiots. -g2

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Man Arrested for Threatening Obama
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2008, 06:55:44 AM »
trying to rallythe troops behind this bozo is funny.kinda
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

gunsmith

  • I forgot to get vaccinated!
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,187
  • I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
Re: Man Arrested for Threatening Obama
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2008, 10:42:32 PM »
you have got to be an idiot to make threats against presidents (or candidates) while
in a bail bondsman school.
sounds like a mall ninja/wannabe tough guy.
I'm pretty sure the guy was no real threat but am glad the secret service is on the job.
I only wish they were just as eager to get all the nut jobs that threatened our current potus.
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

seeker_two

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,922
  • In short, most intelligence is false.
Re: Man Arrested for Threatening Obama
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2008, 01:08:27 AM »
This is the part that concerns me....

Quote from: CNN
The affidavit, signed by Special Agent Charles R. Adie, said Geisel "generally provided no excuse" for why he had the weapons and other items  claiming that he collects some of them, that the handgun was for target practice during the bail bondsman course and that he uses the machete and a hatchet for cutting through brush in Maine, where he lived most of his life before moving to Florida in January.

I'll wholeheartedly vote for the candidate for President who promises to go through the employment rolls of the Executive Branch LEO's and cull out people like Special Agent Charles R. Adie and others who can't think of any excuse for a law-abiding citizen to own firearms....ever hear of the Second Amendment?....  angry
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

Jamisjockey

  • Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 26,580
  • Your mom sends me care packages
Re: Man Arrested for Threatening Obama
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2008, 03:00:02 AM »
you have got to be an idiot to make threats against presidents (or candidates) while
in a bail bondsman school.
sounds like a mall ninja/wannabe tough guy.
I'm pretty sure the guy was no real threat but am glad the secret service is on the job.
I only wish they were just as eager to get all the nut jobs that threatened our current potus.

Yeah I bet this guy couldn't pull it off anyways....just a crazy mall ninja who enjoys sounding tough.  After Regan I just don't see any crazy with a pistol getting a shot at the man anymore.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,732
Re: Man Arrested for Threatening Obama
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2008, 03:21:38 AM »
If you read the SS agent's affidavit, you find that Geisel was staying at a Holiday Inn Express . . . despite the TV commercials, I guess it doesn't really make you smarter.  grin

Geisel also gave consent for searches of both his automobile and hotel room.  rolleyes

And the agent DID refer to the 9mm Black Talon ammo as "armor piercing."

Repeatedly.

So either the agent knowingly filed a false affidavit (which is probably a criminal offense) or he's provided an opportunity for opposing counsel to attack his expertise and credibility.  police

What I found most disturbing was alluded to in the opening post - authorities seem concerned with his alleged threats against B. Hussein Obama, but NOT against Bush. Maybe SOME threats are more acceptable than others?
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain