Debit card for Manedwolf

[mtnbkr]

Considered making a Capital One card with that image myself...

http://rachellucas.com/index.php/2008/08/08/so-does-it-catch-on-fire-if-you-try-to-buy-pork-chops-with-it/

Chris

[taurusowner]

Sharia compliant?  Does this mean Master Card will ban the issuing of cards to women?

[De Selby]

Sharia compliant?  Does this mean Master Card will ban the issuing of cards to women?

It means mainly this:

It is designed to appeal to both Muslim and non-Muslim individuals who prefer better financial control as the card ensures that purchases are automatically deducted from the cardholders account and approved only if enough funds exist within the account.

So you only spend your money, and not other people's money-a pretty basic rule in Shariah, it seems, but not so basic in other legal systems.

[MicroBalrog]

This is a non-issue.

A market exists for the service, the company provides. Good on them.

[Perd Hapley]

Im missing something but can someone please explain to me like Im 4 years old exactly how the Islamic Debit Mastercard is different from every other debit card on the planet? Because my banks basic Infidel Debit Visa Card does precisely the same things. Its like cash, only without other peoples germs on it.

Yeah. 

Does it just mean that it can't be processed as a credit card, like my debit card can? 

[De Selby]

Im missing something but can someone please explain to me like Im 4 years old exactly how the Islamic Debit Mastercard is different from every other debit card on the planet? Because my banks basic Infidel Debit Visa Card does precisely the same things. Its like cash, only without other peoples germs on it.

Yeah. 

Does it just mean that it can't be processed as a credit card, like my debit card can? 

It probably also means it's drawn on a shariah compliant account, and that you can't overdraft the card. 

Edit to add: What a ridiculous blog comment that was.

[MicroBalrog]

Im missing something but can someone please explain to me like Im 4 years old exactly how the Islamic Debit Mastercard is different from every other debit card on the planet? Because my banks basic Infidel Debit Visa Card does precisely the same things. Its like cash, only without other peoples germs on it.

Yeah. 

Does it just mean that it can't be processed as a credit card, like my debit card can? 

It probably also means it's drawn on a shariah compliant account, and that you can't overdraft the card.

Edit to add: What a ridiculous blog comment that was.

ridiculous blog = ridiculous comments.

[MechAg94]

So you only spend your money, and not other people's money-a pretty basic rule in Shariah, it seems, but not so basic in other legal systems.

I imagine part of the origin of the West's financial debt rules is a reaction to the debtor's prisons of the past. 


Is this actually the first debit card ever that complies with Islamic law? 

[De Selby]

Definitely true that the current debt laws are partly in reaction to debtors prisons-in theory, it's not possible to into debt that way in an Islamic financial system.

I highly doubt that this is the first shariah debit card-but it's probably the first widely accepted one, being a mastercard.

[Manedwolf]

Awesome card. Not accepted in music stores, I take it.

[ilbob]

Islam has some really strange (to us) banking ideas. Somewhat analogous to kosher food rules that Jews have. My guess is that the issuing agency went to the trouble to make sure they were following all the Islamic rules regarding this kind of thing by having some Islamic religious authority review what they were doing.

I don't have any objection to it. It may be there is a market for this kind of thing and they are just responding to market demand.

[The Annoyed Man]

You think Kosher rules are weird?  Wait till you meet people that keep part Kosher - like who will not eat pork, but will eat shellfish.  Franky, as a Jew, I am under the impression that if G-d didn't want us to eat pork, he wouldn't have made it so delicious (as I eat my ham sandwhich for lunch).

But that's another topic I guess.

[Perd Hapley]

This is a non-issue.

A market exists for the service, the company provides. Good on them.

But if we don't freak out about things like this, THE TERRORISTS WINS!!

[mtnbkr]

Who's freaking out?  I thought the choice of image on the card was amusing.

Chris

[Perd Hapley]

Who's freaking out?

Nobody that I know of. 

[De Selby]

Who's freaking out?  I thought the choice of image on the card was amusing.

Chris

That's a photoshop image, obviously, and the person who's freaking out is the blogger.

[seeker_two]

Does it give you a discount if you buy explosives and stylish vests?.....

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

The blogger raises an interesting question, though.  What does the sharia compliant debit card do (or not do) that other debit cards don't?  The basic notion of any debit card is that it draws from funds already in one's own account.  Aren't debit cards therefore sharia compliant already?

Isn't a sharia compliant debit card sorta like double secret probation?

[De Selby]

The blogger raises an interesting question, though.  What does the sharia compliant debit card do (or not do) that other debit cards don't?  The basic notion of any debit card is that it draws from funds already in one's own account.  Aren't debit cards therefore sharia compliant already?

Isn't a sharia compliant debit card sorta like double secret probation?

Again, this was addressed above:

1. It's tied to a shariah compliant account, from all the info sheets I've read so far on this type of card.

2. It won't allow for overdraft and cannot be used as a credit card-only those funds in your bank, and if there aren't any funds, it's declined.  It is certainly possible to over-draft with some of the other debit cards out there, due to lag in the posting times of transactions/deposits.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

The blogger raises an interesting question, though.  What does the sharia compliant debit card do (or not do) that other debit cards don't?  The basic notion of any debit card is that it draws from funds already in one's own account.  Aren't debit cards therefore sharia compliant already?

Isn't a sharia compliant debit card sorta like double secret probation?

Again, this was addressed above:

1. It's tied to a shariah compliant account, from all the info sheets I've read so far on this type of card.

2. It won't allow for overdraft and cannot be used as a credit card-only those funds in your bank, and if there aren't any funds, it's declined.  It is certainly possible to over-draft with some of the other debit cards out there, due to lag in the posting times of transactions/deposits.

So, how is any of that different from a regular debit card and a regular deposit account?  Why not just set up a basic checking account, without any sort of overdraft protection, and have at it?

Is the sharia account some sort of super-duper overdraft proof account?  Is it within sharia law to simply use a regular account, and just make sure you don't overdraw your account?

[De Selby]

A regular debit account does not post debits and credits instantaneously, which is why there is such a thing as overdraft insurance for a normal debit card.

Overdraft protection just means they automatically transfer funds to cover, and don't penalize you as they otherwise would.  It does not mean that your account cannot be over-drafted.

It would not be within sharia to spend money without that money being on hand-hence, a debit card that does instant debits/credits would comply with the rule, and that's why it's being marketed to those who desire shariah compliant products.

A shariah compliant account means your savings funds are complying with a particularly large body of Islamic law dealing with loan transactions, interest, and contracts.  That's a whole lot more than a simple debit/credit issue.  It would not be within the shariah laws that have developed around banking to just have a normal account that garners interest or that charges interest.

Edit: Here's an article that explains more about what Islamic banking would entail, such that one would want a different account in order to comply:  http://www.metimes.com/Business/2008/04/24/islamic_finance/6986/

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

So the issue is really the nature of banking.  Funds deposited into a western style bank are loaned out to other bank customers.  Those loans earn interest, which sharia forbids.  The super duper overdraft-proofness of the sharia account is merely a secondary issue. 

The big idea is that deposits into a sharia account literally must remain in the account at all times, so that the funds are there when the depositor wants to make a purchase.  Western style bank accounts don't work that way.

[De Selby]

So the issue is really the nature of banking.  Funds deposited into a western style bank are loaned out to other bank customers.  Those loans earn interest, which sharia forbids.  The super duper overdraft-proofness of the sharia account is merely a secondary issue.

It's not over-draft protection; it's instant debiting and crediting, which normal accounts do not offer.

Over-draft protection does not mean you cannot draft funds even when you don't have them.

[Perd Hapley]

Who's freaking out?  I thought the choice of image on the card was amusing.

Chris

That's a photoshop image, obviously, and the person who's freaking out is the blogger.

Yes, we know it's a photo-shop.  And it's amusing.  So...

I just read the blogger's whole post (but I didn't sift through the comments) and she admits to being in the dark on banking issues.  So, she's asking what this card does, exactly, and if it is not another attempt at funding terrorism.  I don't think I'd call that freaking out. 



 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

So the issue is really the nature of banking.  Funds deposited into a western style bank are loaned out to other bank customers.  Those loans earn interest, which sharia forbids.  The super duper overdraft-proofness of the sharia account is merely a secondary issue.

It's not over-draft protection; it's instant debiting and crediting, which normal accounts do not offer.

Over-draft protection does not mean you cannot draft funds even when you don't have them.

There is no such thing as instant debiting and crediting.  There cannot be.  Any sort of electronic payment has a lag time associated with it.  If the problem is timing, then a sharia-legal debit card isn't.