Alcohol and rape

[taurusowner]

Here's something to break the monotony of Obama McCain threads   Got the idea from a Fark thread.

Examples:
2 college students go to a party.  Neither of them drink, and they both consent to sex.  Is it rape?


2 college students go to a party.  The female gets drunk, but the male does not.  They both consent to sex.  Is it rape?


2 college students go to a party.  The male gets drunk, the female does not.  They both consent to sex.  Is it rape?


Ad finally, 2 college students go to a party.  They both get drunk and consent to sex.  Is it rape?

[Werewolf]

NO... NO... NO... And NO!

Change drunk to passed out though and you've created a whole new ball of wax.

Of course in this day and age there's no tellin' what the law says.

[Jamisjockey]

If he or she can say Yes (Or No), then no, its not. 
They made the choice to drink the booze, knowing it could impair thier judgement....then agreed to sex....
However, what it is....is a good way to wake up with an ugly chick.

[Balog]

It would generally depend on the level on incapacitation.

[K Frame]

According to Andrea Dworkin (hum... I suppose I should speak well of her, she's dead), EVERY male-female sexual encounter is violent rape.

[AZRedhawk44]

Change drunk to passed out though and you've created a whole new ball of wax.

"Dead-horsing" a bit, are we?

I think it's in bad taste especially for a first (or only) time with someone, but it isn't rape if it's consentual.

Although drunk sex can be pretty interesting when both parties are loaded.

[Monkeyleg]

Many, many years ago I had a party at my apartment. One of the young women there got really drunk. A former friend of mine had sex with her right after she'd thrown up.

Rape? No, but getting pretty close to the line. It's one reason why he's a "former" friend of mine.

[taurusowner]

Monkeyleg, how do you rationalize it being close to rape?

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

If she's cogent enough to say 'yes' and participate, then there's no way you can say it's anywhere close to rape.

[Manedwolf]

If she's cogent enough to say 'yes' and participate, then there's no way you can say it's anywhere close to rape.

You can't. She can, later. It's happened to lots of guys.

[crt360]

For the most part, I'd like to say if everyone is consenting, there's no rape.  But we all know it's not that simple.  What is consent?  Is it drunkenly going along with whatever is happening at the moment?  Is the person buzzed and slightly uninhibited or wasted beyond the ability to reason?

I'm sure I'll get cybershoes tossed my direction, but I think every guy has duty to assess the situation and if there's a question, save it for another time.  I'd love to say the female shares the responsibility, but it never works that way (unless she's a teacher and he's her juvenile student ).

Two people can certainly get drunk and get it on, but there has to be some prior understanding of the relationship.

I've known guys that had sex with girls that fully participated, but were probably too drunk to know their own name at the time.  Losers.

I've known girls who got drunk, had a sex with someone they later wished they hadn't, and called it rape.  It still surprises me that girls will do this, and almost as disturbing is the casualness with which some can do it.  I thought about carrying a consent form (requiring witnesses) in my wallet after encountering this.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

If she's cogent enough to say 'yes' and participate, then there's no way you can say it's anywhere close to rape.

You can't. She can, later. It's happened to lots of guys.

Agreed.  That happened to a friend of mine in college.  He met a girl at a party who was an absolute whore when drunk, but once she sobered up she was a good little girl who never, ever would have agreed to do anything like that.  She charged him with rape to salve her conscience.  It darn near ruined his academic career before we were able to sort things out.

[taurusowner]

I'm sure I'll get cybershoes tossed my direction, but I think every guy has duty to assess the situation and if there's a question, save it for another time.  I'd love to say the female shares the responsibility, but it never works that way (unless she's a teacher and he's her juvenile student smiley).

How can we possibly claim that we want to move past sexism as a society but continue to allow stuff like that to stand?  If you'd love to say the females shares responsibility, take a stand and say so. 

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

If he or she can say Yes (Or No), then no, its not. 
They made the choice to drink the booze, knowing it could impair thier judgement....then agreed to sex....
However, what it is....is a good way to wake up with an ugly chick.

I really like that your avatar is Quagmire...fits the topic of this tread quite well.

[Jamisjockey]

If he or she can say Yes (Or No), then no, its not. 
They made the choice to drink the booze, knowing it could impair thier judgement....then agreed to sex....
However, what it is....is a good way to wake up with an ugly chick.

I really like that your avatar is Quagmire...fits the topic of this tread quite well.

Look! Right there! Its the 4th hole!

[seeker_two]

I voted "Yes".......but then, I've invested a lot of money into the Trojan Breath-a-lyzer.....

[BridgeRunner]

Nope.  But anyone who has sex with anyone they don't know well, particularly if there is alcohol involved, is not showing great evidence of intelligence.

[anygunanywhere]

It depends on what the jury says.

Anygunanywhere

[Monkeyleg]

taurusowner, I'm just trying to think like a jury. She wasn't unconscious, knew what was going on, and didn't object (that I'm aware of). But she was too drunk to make a rational decision.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

How do you know her decision wasn't rational?  She happened to be drunk, sure.  But what's to say she wouldn't make the exact same decision stone cold sober?  How do you know that wasn't what she wanted all along?

Seems to me the only sure indicator of her intentions is what she tells you.

[crt360]

I'm sure I'll get cybershoes tossed my direction, but I think every guy has duty to assess the situation and if there's a question, save it for another time.  I'd love to say the female shares the responsibility, but it never works that way (unless she's a teacher and he's her juvenile student smiley).

How can we possibly claim that we want to move past sexism as a society but continue to allow stuff like that to stand?  If you'd love to say the females shares responsibility, take a stand and say so. 

Because what I "say" here doesn't mean much, especially when it's contrary to reality.  You have my opinion.  Besides, I didn't claim anything about moving past sexism as a society.  You can take stands and talk until your blue, but as long as females are smaller and weaker than males the general perception will be that they are more vulnerable to such things as rape and therefore are more believable as victims.  Hence, for matters of self-preservation, the male being more susceptible to accusation and prosecution, must take precautions where the female need not.

[The Annoyed Man]

Edited: Apparently I'm wrong on this one.

[BridgeRunner]

Well, legally, no - just like how you can't enter a contract legally while drunk.

Um.  Well.  Read the first chapter of your contracts casebook on that one.

[The Annoyed Man]

Well, legally, no - just like how you can't enter a contract legally while drunk.

Um.  Well.  Read the first chapter of your contracts casebook on that one.

Am I wrong?  I'm just remembering this from Business Law in undergrad.  I haven't taken contracts yet. (turned down law school offers to reapply).  Not even a 1L yet.

Business Law was 3 years ago, so I very well might be remembering incorrectly.

[BridgeRunner]

Am I wrong?  I'm just remembering this from Business Law in undergrad.  I haven't taken contracts yet. (turned down law school offers to reapply).  Not even a 1L yet.

Yeah, I know.  No, you're not wrong, but you're not right either. 

§16, 2nd Restatement of Contracts:
A person incurs only voidable contractual duties by entering into a transaction if the other party has reason to know that by reason of intoxication
(a) he is unable to understand in a reasonable manner the nature and consequences of the transaction, or
(b) he is unable to act in a reasonable manner in relation to the transaction.

Also, the decision/agreement of sex is not necessarily a contract and does not generally fall under the law of contracts. 

In some states, for example, I believe that an attempt to enforce any aspect of an agreement to have sex outside of a marital relationship would be void.