Author Topic: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]  (Read 15255 times)

freakazoid

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Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #50 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
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Suit yourself. Until the libertarians get some sense of how to exclude fringe elements, how to unify a message, and in a sense, how to grow up, they will be only one thing.

So basically dumb down there message for the masses.

Quote
Someone among them posted warning them not to back the violent tax protesters who threatened to kill law enforcement agents' families, the guy who was screaming "show me the law" with bombs and guns all over until the Marshals arrested him. That it would destroy them in the public eye if they backed someone who "threatened to kill people as long as he can remember".

About time some people stopped letting the .gov roll all over them.
What do you think of things like the Boston Tea party? Or the entire American Revolution?
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

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longeyes

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Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #51 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Libertarianism is a form of idealism that works for "the select."  Too bad more people don't rise to the level of rationality and responsibility required.  I see it working "small-scale," the way its opposite, "all for one, one for all" works for a Marine fighting unit.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #52 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Quote
Suit yourself. Until the libertarians get some sense of how to exclude fringe elements, how to unify a message, and in a sense, how to grow up, they will be only one thing.

So basically dumb down there message for the masses.

No.  Learn how to present your message in a way that might have a chance of gaining popularity and support.  Do NOT push your message in ways that harm your movement.

Perd Hapley

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Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #53 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Quote
Suit yourself. Until the libertarians get some sense of how to exclude fringe elements, how to unify a message, and in a sense, how to grow up, they will be only one thing.

So basically dumb down there message for the masses.

No.  Learn how to present your message in a way that might have a chance of gaining popularity and support.  Do NOT push your message in ways that harm your movement.

Because representative government works on consent, not on simply dictating a view point.  Which is an ironic difference between the major parties and most of the third parties.  Third party folks, God bless 'em, are devoted to nailing down the most pure ideology.  Meanwhile, the big parties put together imperfect platforms that they can get enough people to settle for.  Sad, but what can you do? 
Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?
--Thomas Jefferson

Manedwolf

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Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #54 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Quote
Someone among them posted warning them not to back the violent tax protesters who threatened to kill law enforcement agents' families, the guy who was screaming "show me the law" with bombs and guns all over until the Marshals arrested him. That it would destroy them in the public eye if they backed someone who "threatened to kill people as long as he can remember".

About time some people stopped letting the .gov roll all over them.
What do you think of things like the Boston Tea party? Or the entire American Revolution?

Let me clarify again. The guy threatened to have the families of law enforcement officers killed if they arrested him for tax fraud.

freakazoid

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Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #55 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Quote
The guy threatened to have the families of law enforcement officers killed if they arrested him for tax fraud.

Linky? Also you should have quotation marks around tax fraud, Smiley
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

"I see a rager at least once a week." - brimic

yesitsloaded

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Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #56 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
I can haz nukular banstiks ? Say no to furries, yes to people.

roo_ster

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Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
The big-L Libertarians need their own Bill Buckley, in the worst way.

One of Buckley's great triumphs was the fusion of small-L libertarians with conservatives in opposition to the ever-growing state.

The second, less well-known effort of Buckley's was to exile from respectable conservatism the fringe nutters: John Birchers, American Mercury-types, etc.

The resulting ideological conservative movement was slightly smaller, but much more effective, resulting in a Goldwater nomination and eventually a Reagan presidency.

Before anybody is gonna want to fuse with Libertarians, they are going to have to clean house and hang up the wookie suits.
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roo_ster

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Perd Hapley

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Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Hey, you can't talk about Birchers around here! 

I still don't get that rule...

Am I missing something? 
Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?
--Thomas Jefferson

yesitsloaded

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Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #59 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
They make Paulbots look tame. Is that a good reason?
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GigaBuist

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Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #60 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Quote
Third party folks, God bless 'em, are devoted to nailing down the most pure ideology.  Meanwhile, the big parties put together imperfect platforms that they can get enough people to settle for.

That right there is the crux of the problem when it comes to the Libertarian party or any other 3rd party.  They're so involved in promoting an ideal that they alienate people that might support them in 90% of all things.  It's almost like party purity reigns above party popularity in their circles.

MicroBalrog

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Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #61 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
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One of Buckley's great triumphs was the fusion of small-L libertarians with conservatives in opposition to the ever-growing state.

Buckley? Opposition to the ever-growing state? Is this the same Buckley we speak of?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

roo_ster

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Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #62 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Quote
One of Buckley's great triumphs was the fusion of small-L libertarians with conservatives in opposition to the ever-growing state.

Buckley? Opposition to the ever-growing state? Is this the same Buckley we speak of?

Yes, it is.

Without him and his work, it would be larger.  He & his buds did the work of making conservatism and the idea of limited government respectable again.

Recall, he started National Review in the mid-1950s, when almost all policritters and polite society was united in a point of view that viewed ever-expanding gov't a good and natural thing.  New Deal, Fair Deal, etc. 



...The Republican party had effectively marginalized its remaining conservative members by the 1950s. Although a few Republican statesmen such as Senator Robert Taft of Ohio maintained a rear-guard action against the growth of the state during Roosevelt's New Deal, the party was firmly in the camp of its relatively liberal and pro-government Eastern establishment...

...Buckley and Frank Meyer also promoted the idea of fusionism, whereby different schools of conservatives, including libertarians, would work together to combat what were seen as their common opponents...

NR's founding statement:
Lets Face it: Unlike Vienna, it seems altogether possible that did National Review not exist, no one would have invented it. The launching of a conservative weekly journal of opinion in a country widely assumed to be a bastion of conservatism at first glance looks like a work of supererogation, rather like publishing a royalist weekly within the walls of Buckingham Palace. It is not that of course; if National Review is superfluous, it is so for very different reasons: It stands athwart history, yelling Stop, at a time when no other is inclined to do so, or to have much patience with those who so urge it."
["History" defined as the ever-growing power of the state relative to the individual--jfruser]


"In the United States at this time liberalism is not only the dominant but even the sole intellectual tradition. For it is the plain fact that nowadays there are no conservative or reactionary ideas in general circulation... the conservative impulse and the reactionary impulse do not... express themselves in ideas but only... in irritable mental gestures which seek to resemble ideas."
----Lionel Trilling, 1950



It is through the work of Buckley and his kind that the USA is not just a larger, polyglot reflection of the EU.

Such work is not and will never be 100% complete or thorough.  Struggle is the expectation for those that champion civilization and the dignity and sovereignty of the individual.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

MicroBalrog

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Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #63 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
"&we have to accept Big Government for the duration  for neither an offensive nor defensive war can be waged given our present government skills, except through the instrument of a totalitarian bureaucracy within our shores&

And if they deem Soviet power a menace to our freedom (as I happen to), they will have to support large armies and air forces, atomic energy, central intelligence, war production boards, and the attendant of centralization of power in Washington  Even with Truman at the reins of it all."

This is the man whom you depict as a champion of individual liberty?

Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Manedwolf

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Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #64 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
"&we have to accept Big Government for the duration  for neither an offensive nor defensive war can be waged given our present government skills, except through the instrument of a totalitarian bureaucracy within our shores&

Take deliberately truncated statements out of context much?

MicroBalrog

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Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #65 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Here's an interesting Buckley obituary:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/gordon/gordon35.html
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Manedwolf

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Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #66 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Here's an interesting Buckley obituary:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/gordon/gordon35.html

You might as well be pointing to zionist-illuminati-ufos.com.

I am not reading any trash on that site.

MicroBalrog

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Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #67 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Here's an interesting Buckley obituary:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/gordon/gordon35.html

You might as well be pointing to zionist-illuminati-ufos.com.

I am not reading any trash on that site.

Riiight.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

roo_ster

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Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #68 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Here's an interesting Buckley obituary:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/gordon/gordon35.html

You might as well be pointing to zionist-illuminati-ufos.com.

I am not reading any trash on that site.




Riiight.



I'm with MW.

Lew is a Lewn.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

MicroBalrog

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Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #69 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Here's an interesting Buckley obituary:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/gordon/gordon35.html

You might as well be pointing to zionist-illuminati-ufos.com.

I am not reading any trash on that site.




Riiight.



I'm with MW.

Lew is a Lewn.


Even if you were write, which you're not, Lew is not the author of that article.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner