Author Topic: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.  (Read 6356 times)

yesitsloaded

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Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« on: September 15, 2008, 06:30:51 PM »
This comes off to me as the dumbest use of tax money in a long time. http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/09/15/paying.grades/index.html
Quote
Paulette Wiley was fed up.
Paulette Wiley

To date, 300 parents have participated in the Education Brain Trust program founded by Paulette Wiley in Iowa.
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Tired of watching kids fail in school, the education activist came up with a plan. She called a meeting with the parents and told them she'd pay them $25 just for showing up.

"Ten dollars isn't dignified, $30, that's too much," says Wiley. "But $25, that sounded real good. Real good."

At the first meeting in May, parents introduced themselves and explained why they had come. Wiley says she was struck by the level of pain of the parents.

"One father stood up and talked about how he wanted more for his children, how he was second-generation special education and how his children were coming through special education, and how he wanted to break the cycle," recalls Wiley.

By the time introductions were finished, most people in the room were crying and realized they were not alone.

As strange as it may sound, schools across the country, in New York, Texas and Arizona, have taken this approach. They're paying students to take tests and make good grades.
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Wiley, who lives in Des Moines, Iowa, decided to take a different approach and target parents throughout the largely African-American school district.

"Our parents are disconnected. They're disconnected from a system that doesn't respect them," says Wiley. "They're disconnected from a system they don't have a positive relationship with, so we've got to reconnect our parents."

Wiley's program, the Education Brain Trust, runs daylong seminars that show parents how to work with teachers, help with homework and support their kids. Parents are given a T-shirt, a tote bag, food and provided with on-site babysitting.

The parents are required to sign a commitment letter agreeing to have at least four positive experiences in their child's classroom, including attending parent-teacher conferences and supervising an hour of homework a night. Video See how the program attempts to bridge the achievement gap ?

"We talk about turning the radio down, turning the music off, getting the people out of the house, no card games at the table," says Wiley. "I'm talking about you sitting down reading with your child, I'm talking about you showing your child how important homework hour is to you. That's what we ask them for and that's a lot."

La Conda Obie, whose daughters are in fifth- and 10th-grades, went to the seminar to learn her rights as a parent.
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"I get a stipend, but at the same time I get knowledge as well," says Obie, who usually brings her girls Shanai, 15, and Shamai, 10, so they can also learn from the course.

Critics say paying parents, and students for that matter, cheapens the learning process.

Alfie Kohn, author of "Punished by Rewards" says the challenge is to change the learning environment -- not paying people to work within the one that's broken.

"When are educators going to work with children and their parents to create the kind of learning environments that will be naturally engaging to kids instead of doing things to make them jump through hoops for a prize?" says Kohn.

Nearly 60 percent of African-American fourth-graders in Des Moines can't read at grade level, according to the Iowa Department of Education. Superintendent Nancy Sebring says if turning that around means paying parents every time they show up to a seminar -- she supports it.

"From my experience, the lack of parental involvement has not been from parents not caring," says Sebring. "They may be working two jobs, they may not have transportation to and from school, they may not speak English."

Sebring says when she was approached about paying parents, she never hesitated.

"I thought that it was an excellent idea. Poverty disrupts learning, it is not an excuse not to learn," Sebring explains. "So any way you can fill the void by providing parents with necessary resources, even a small amount of money can go a long way to a family."

So far, 300 parents have attended Wiley's program, which is paid for by a $20,000 county grant and co-sponsored by the ASK Family Resource Center.

Susan Myers, executive director of ASK, says its important to get parents involved, especially in the African-American community, where a disproportionate number of children are placed in special education programs, suspended or expelled.

She is one of many who say it's no coincidence that Iowa also incarcerates a disproportionate number of blacks.

"We know historically that special education identification, especially for minorities, is the first step towards detention and then ultimately prison and our goal is to interrupt that pipeline from school to prison," Myers says.

Now that she knows what the classes are about, La Conda Obie says she'd attend even if she weren't paid. She sees it as an investment in her children's future.
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What kind of future does she want for her daughters?

"Just put her best foot forward and get her education," says Obie.
I can haz nukular banstiks ? Say no to furries, yes to people.

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2008, 06:39:48 PM »
And yet somehow my cracker momma, working 3 jobs and supporting me and my baby brother, had enough work ethic in her to teach me to read at age 3, to take pride in education by age 5, and to be reading at an adult level by age 9.  To be capable of multiplication tables at age 8.

And the only pay she or I got was the knowledge that it would empower me later in my life.

I am bitterly opposed to paying these little $#!+s anything to take advantage of the free education in front of them.  This has nothing to do with race or opportunity... I know plenty of over-priviledged brats of various skin colors that screw up their education just the same as the po', po' colored fo'k.

/rant
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Standing Wolf

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2008, 06:43:11 PM »
If so-called "welfare" doesn't work, maybe free money will.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2008, 06:43:49 PM »
Wow, AZ.  Given the material she had to work with, she must be some great tutor.  Tongue
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Manedwolf

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2008, 06:53:47 PM »
Preparing them for the welfare state. Don't do anything on your own, wait for the gummit to cut you a free check.

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2008, 06:57:40 PM »
Wow, AZ.  Given the material she had to work with, she must be some great tutor.  Tongue

Thanks, I'll tell her that.  She'll appreciate it. grin
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

yesitsloaded

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2008, 07:08:36 PM »
It is crap like this that sometimes makes we wonder about rewriting voting requirements so that people on the take can't vote.
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Leatherneck

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2008, 11:41:51 PM »
Ahh. The power of unions in the schools comes home to roost.

TC
TC
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richyoung

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2008, 04:51:22 AM »
It is crap like this that sometimes makes we wonder about rewriting voting requirements so that people on the take can't vote.

+eleventy billion squared...
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2008, 04:53:23 AM »
Quote
"One father stood up and talked about how he wanted more for his children, how he was second-generation special education and how his children were coming through special education, and how he wanted to break the cycle," recalls Wiley.

Words. Fail. Me.
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wmenorr67

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2008, 04:57:29 AM »
Welcome to No Child Left Behind.
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K Frame

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2008, 05:13:55 AM »
"And yet somehow my cracker momma, working 3 jobs and supporting me and my baby brother, had enough work ethic in her to teach me to read at age 3, to take pride in education by age 5, and to be reading at an adult level by age 9."

But what the hell has happened to you since then?  laugh laugh
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freedom lover

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2008, 10:33:15 AM »
The sensitive, caring types probably think encouraging kids to stay in school and becoming good citizens can be achieved in the long term through paying them a few times. I doubt it will really help.

Once many of these neglected children get older and realize that they can find acceptance in a gang and make alot of money selling drugs the affect will have worn off.

The government is no substitute for good parents and a good environment. It is not the answer to all our problems.Once people find out that a powerful government can take away freedoms and do little to help society, hopefully they will become minarchists.

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2008, 10:34:32 AM »
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Once people find out that a powerful government can take away freedoms and do little to help society, hopefully they will become minarchists.

All hail discordia and the sacred chao!
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

freedom lover

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2008, 11:00:55 AM »
I fail to see how a smaller government could cause chaos. I do not advocate anarchy, only a government with less power and in keeping with the ideas of our country's founders. Basically I agree with some conservatives on certain issues of governmental power. I guess having ideas about basic liberties and freedom from future oppression are now fringe. Oh well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minarchism

Edit: That being said, there is a time for citizens and government to use force. I am not a so called "Paulian wookiee suit wearer".

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2008, 11:08:06 AM »
Quote
I fail to see how a smaller government could cause chaos. I do not advocate anarchy, only a government with less power and in keeping with the ideas of our country's founders. Basically I agree with some conservatives on certain issues of governmental power. I guess having ideas about basic liberties and freedom from future oppression are now fringe. Oh well.

Oh, settle down.  I'm just quoting silly fiction.



"Minarchist" just sounds funny to me.  It's an abandonment of a plank of the supposed Republican party too, and I'm just frustrated by seeing the GOP lose its own soul, plank by plank.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

MicroBalrog

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2008, 06:44:24 AM »
Quote
Edit: That being said, there is a time for citizens and government to use force. I am not a so called "Paulian wookiee suit wearer".

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Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Don't care

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2008, 01:49:23 PM »
Welcome to No Child Left Behind.


Despite the bad press of NCLB, the alternative was schools continuing to receive monies for not educating the children of which they were charged.

Someone please show me a better way to accomplish accountability.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2008, 01:50:44 PM »

Despite the bad press of NCLB, the alternative was schools continuing to receive monies for not educating the children of which they were charged.

Someone please show me a better way to accomplish accountability.

Close down the DoE entirely. THe Federal government has no business in the schools.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2008, 02:00:50 PM »
based that on your experience with public schools in the usa?  or someone elses
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MechAg94

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2008, 02:01:29 PM »
I agree.  In addition, abolish all federal regulations and grants regarding grade schools.  Would that eliminate anything important?
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2008, 02:02:30 PM »
based that on your experience with public schools in the usa?  or someone elses

Yes, only experience counts. I will use that as an argument once you post in any kind of thread about military service, the Middle East, or Russia.

Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

MicroBalrog

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2008, 02:04:56 PM »
I agree.  In addition, abolish all federal regulations and grants regarding grade schools.  Would that eliminate anything important?

No. Federal education spending is 69.4 billion dollars.

Total private and public expenditure on education in the US is 827 billion dollars. Guess how important the Federal funding is.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

seeker_two

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2008, 02:54:15 PM »
No. Federal education spending is 69.4 billion dollars.

Total private and public expenditure on education in the US is 827 billion dollars. Guess how important the Federal funding is.

That doesn't count the school lunch program (Dept. of Agriculture) and other Fed-funded parts....adds up to a lot of money in the school coffers...esp. poor, rural area schools....

Personally, the Feds shouldn't have anything to do with education....dissolve DOEd & give the money back to the states w/ no strings attached...
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Explain to me any of the logic behind this.
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2008, 02:56:49 PM »
That doesn't count the school lunch program (Dept. of Agriculture) and other Fed-funded parts....adds up to a lot of money in the school coffers...esp. poor, rural area schools....

Personally, the Feds shouldn't have anything to do with education....dissolve DOEd & give the money back to the states w/ no strings attached impose lower taxes on the tax base...

Fixed.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!