Bailout passed in house

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

   The new bailout bill just passed in the house.

The Dow is down some 300 points since the vote.

Hmm...

[makattak]

huzzah.....  

More things to make me fear for the future of this nation...

I'm about to get married. Hopefully also children soon. I seriously doubt I will be leaving them a better country than the one I grew up in.

[roo_ster]

Too bad.

It was  worse than the one they didn't pass.

[makattak]

Too bad.

It was  worse than the one they didn't pass.

Yeah. Yay pork! 

[Racehorse]

Too bad.

It was  worse than the one they didn't pass.

Yeah. Yay pork! 

The lack of pork in the first one is probably the only reason it didn't pass.

[Manedwolf]

So much for the illusion of representative democracy.

[MicroBalrog]

  The new bailout bill just passed in the house.

The Dow is down some 300 points since the vote.

Hmm...

B-b-but the bailout is necessary to save the economy!

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

  The new bailout bill just passed in the house.

The Dow is down some 300 points since the vote.

Hmm...

B-b-but the bailout is necessary to save the economy!

Well, in the short term the bailout is necessary to "save" the economy.  In the long term it'll exacerbate the problems we have now.

The politicians aren't thinking any farther into the future than the upcoming election.

[AZRedhawk44]

The banking industry was in the middle of saving itself with consolidations this week.

Once again government succeeds in doing the wrong thing, too late.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

The banking industry was in the middle of saving itself with consolidations this week.

Wells Fargo and Citi are about to come to blows over who gets to buy up the remains of Wachovia.

 

[MicroBalrog]

So, does nobody pause  to contemplate the fact this bill was the notion of the Bush administration, and supported by its successor, John McCain?

[Manedwolf]

So, does nobody pause  to contemplate the fact this bill was the notion of the Bush administration, and supported by its successor, John McCain?

And enthusiastically pushed by Pelosi, and had 150 billion of pork tacked on mostly by Democrats.

[The Annoyed Man]

So much for the illusion of representative democracy.

. . . words of wisdom from the guy who guilts people against voting for principles.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

So, does nobody pause  to contemplate the fact this bill was the notion of the Bush administration, and supported by its successor, John McCain?

I'm more interested in whether people have noticed that the Ron Paul utterly failed to prevent this bailout bill.  A libertarian demigod such as Paul should have stopped it cold.

[Manedwolf]

So much for the illusion of representative democracy.

. . . words of wisdom from the guy who guilts people against voting for principles.

Whatever. There's a difference between actually planning strategy, and going and running at the machine guns only to be mowed down, just to make a point. 

People who "vote for principles" in a close election where one of the candidates would be horrific are simply lousy at math. Or terribly shortsighted and naive. Or both.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

So much for the illusion of representative democracy.

. . . words of wisdom from the guy who guilts people against voting for principles.

Voting for principles is good.  That's why so many of us vote for the lesser evil.  That's the best way to use your vote to advance your principles.

Voting for a third party candidate doesn't advance your principles.  It serves only to help the principles you oppose gain strength. 

[MicroBalrog]

So, does nobody pause  to contemplate the fact this bill was the notion of the Bush administration, and supported by its successor, John McCain?

And enthusiastically pushed by Pelosi, and had 150 billion of pork tacked on mostly by Democrats.

And?

For decades and decades people have been dumping on every candidate that wasn't a moderate Republican, and calling for people to support the 'moderates' because they were more 'electable'. This is the attitude that gave you the two Bushes and McCain. This is the attitude that lead the Republican leadership to fight Goldwater and Reagan - remember that both of these people confronted incredible opposition on their own side.

And now your candidate voted for a 700-billion unconstitutional, socialist bailout.

He was so moderate that he shot his election chances by going to a compromise opposed by the majority of the voting public.

So now the people who supported McCain sold their birthright for a mess of pottage, and they're not even getting the pottage.

[taurusowner]

Voting third party is like a bayonet charge.  It may make you feel like you're fighting honorably, but the physical effect is that you get dead, fast.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Tell me, Micro, who else should we vote for? 

The libertarians and Libertarians didn't do any better on this bailout.  If this bailout is as big a deal as you make it sound, why didn't they put a stop to it?

[BrokenPaw]

Tell me, Micro, who else should we vote for? 

The libertarians and Libertarians didn't do any better on this bailout.  If this bailout is as big a deal as you make it sound, why didn't they put a stop to it?

Disingenuous at best; an M1A1 Abrams that was doing the wrong thing would continue to do the wrong thing regardless of whether a libertarian stood in front of it.

-BP

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Disingenuous?  How so?

I'm trying to make the point that merely holding the right policy views isn't enough in Washington, not by a long shot.  In the case of this bailout bill, libertarians like Ron Paul amounted to diddly squat.

Supporting politicians like Ron Paul is fine and dandy.  Just don't kid yourself about these people ever making any sort of positive difference in the real world.  They are pathologically incapable of influencing politics in their favor.

[The Annoyed Man]

Tell me, Micro, who else should we vote for? 

The libertarians and Libertarians didn't do any better on this bailout.  If this bailout is as big a deal as you make it sound, why didn't they put a stop to it?

Disingenuous at best; an M1A1 Abrams that was doing the wrong thing would continue to do the wrong thing regardless of whether a libertarian stood in front of it.

-BP

Indeed. Besides, it isn't like the debates are stacked against libertarians or other parties, or anything unfair like that. 

[The Annoyed Man]

Disingenuous?  How so?

I'm trying to make the point that merely holding the right policy views isn't enough in Washington, not by a long shot.  In this case, libertarians like Ron Paul amounted to diddly squat.

Supporting politicians like Ron Paul is fine and dandy.  Just don't kid yourself about these people ever making any sort of difference in the real world.  They are pathologically incapable of influencing politics.

Sure about that?

I thought we were gonna get blamed for making McCain lose.

Sounds like influencing something.

So, which is it, folks?

Do third parties matter? or not?

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Tell me, Micro, who else should we vote for? 

The libertarians and Libertarians didn't do any better on this bailout.  If this bailout is as big a deal as you make it sound, why didn't they put a stop to it?

Disingenuous at best; an M1A1 Abrams that was doing the wrong thing would continue to do the wrong thing regardless of whether a libertarian stood in front of it.

-BP

Indeed. Besides, it isn't like the debates are stacked against libertarians or other parties, or anything unfair like that. 

The last time there was a viable third party candidate in the elections, he was included in the debates.

[AZRedhawk44]

Disingenuous?  How so?

I'm trying to make the point that merely holding the right policy views isn't enough in Washington, not by a long shot.  In this case, libertarians like Ron Paul amounted to diddly squat.

Supporting politicians like Ron Paul is fine and dandy.  Just don't kid yourself about these people ever making any sort of difference in the real world.  They are pathologically incapable of influencing politics.

Sure about that?

I thought we were gonna get blamed for making McCain lose.

Sounds like influencing something.

So, which is it, folks?

Do third parties matter? or not?

In 1776, the total colonial population was about 2.5 million.

Only 250,000 served in the colonial army over an 8 year span, and only 90,000 ever at any one time.  Usually less.

90,000 people was only about 2.8% of the population.

Sounds like 3% is enough to build a new nation.

3% is obviously enough to "steal" the election from McCain.  @$$hat better keep that in mind, although he's done enough now that he just re-lost my vote for the last time.  Barring some miracle where he singlehandedly brings in UBL, he is not getting my vote.

I'm in for the 3%.