Author Topic: Justifiable Homicides at Highest in More Than A Decade  (Read 3327 times)

AZRedhawk44

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Justifiable Homicides at Highest in More Than A Decade
« on: October 15, 2008, 07:32:27 PM »
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-10-14-justifiable_N.htm

Quote
The number of justifiable homicides committed by police and private citizens has been rising in the past two years to their highest levels in more than a decade, reflecting a shoot-first philosophy in dealing with crime, say law enforcement analysts.
The 391 killings by police that were ruled justifiable in 2007 were the most since 1994, FBI statistics show. The 254 killings by private individuals found to be self-defense were the most since 1997.

The FBI says a homicide committed by a private citizen is justified when a person is slain during the commission of a felony, such as a burglary or robbery. Police are justified, the FBI says, when felons are killed while the officer is acting in the line of duty. Rulings on these deaths are usually made by the local police agencies involved.

Some law enforcement analysts say the numbers represent changing attitudes on the streets, where police have felt more threatened by well-armed offenders, and citizens have taken greater responsibility for their own safety.

Northeastern University criminal justice professor James Alan Fox describes an emerging "shoot-first" mentality by police and private citizens. For several years, police departments have armed their officers with higher-powered weapons to keep pace with criminal gangs. "Clearly there is a message out there that citizens may be able to defend themselves" as well, he says.
Alfred Blumstein, a Carnegie Mellon University criminologist, says the gun "legalization movement" also may have helped create a "greater willingness" among citizens to act in self-defense.

Forty-eight states provide various rights to carry firearms. Illinois and Wisconsin do not, according to the National Rifle Association. In a landmark decision, the Supreme Court in June carved out a right to individual gun ownership, ruling that the Second Amendment allows citizens to keep guns in their homes for self-defense.

The NRA and other analysts say most laws allowing gun possession have existed for years and would not likely account for a recent spike in self-defense killings.

Instead, Wayne LaPierre, the NRA's executive vice president and chief executive officer, says the Sept. 11 attacks and the widespread looting and violence after Hurricane Katrina spurred some people to take more responsibility for their own safety.

Immediately after those events, LaPierre says the group's gun-safety trainers reported "big increases" in NRA-sponsored courses. "Americans are simply refusing to be victims," he says.

Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck says the FBI underestimates self-defense killings by citizens because the ones that are not precipitated by felony crimes may not get counted. "Less than a third of (citizen killings) are reported," he says.

Sounds like we're doing good here.
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Scout26

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Re: Justifiable Homicides at Highest in More Than A Decade
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2008, 08:07:03 PM »
It's a start.
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Fly320s

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Re: Justifiable Homicides at Highest in More Than A Decade
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2008, 08:15:25 PM »
"Less than a third of (citizen killings) are reported."

I hope that quote was taken out of context.
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SteveS

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Re: Justifiable Homicides at Highest in More Than A Decade
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2008, 09:07:03 PM »
Quote
Northeastern University criminal justice professor James Alan Fox describes an emerging "shoot-first" mentality by police and private citizens.

Well, I would rather shoot first than be shot first, so I don't really see a problem with this.
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280plus

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Re: Justifiable Homicides at Highest in More Than A Decade
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2008, 09:34:31 PM »
Ah, some good news for a change!  =D
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Re: Justifiable Homicides at Highest in More Than A Decade
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2008, 02:44:10 PM »
Justified after still being arrested and possibly charged?

MicroBalrog

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Re: Justifiable Homicides at Highest in More Than A Decade
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2008, 02:48:24 PM »
"Less than a third of (citizen killings) are reported."

I hope that quote was taken out of context.

Apparently, the reporting of justifiable homicide to the FBI is voluntary and not all police departments bother.
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slingshot

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Re: Justifiable Homicides at Highest in More Than A Decade
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2008, 03:37:20 PM »
Quote
The FBI says a homicide committed by a private citizen is justified when a person is slain during the commission of a felony, such as a burglary or robbery.

That is interesting as it does not say anything about feeling your life threatened prior to pulling the trigger.  Burglary is property crime and many states do not support the use of firearms to guard property or enforce your ownership of said property.  Things are changing.  If the statement by the FBI was accurate legally, it certainly opens up new possiblities. 
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Marnoot

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Re: Justifiable Homicides at Highest in More Than A Decade
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2008, 05:38:37 PM »
Apparently, the reporting of justifiable homicide to the FBI is voluntary and not all police departments bother.

Actually under both the older UCR reporting and newer electronic IBR reporting, police agencies are to report all homicides, including justified. I deal with UCR/IBR on a regular basis at my job as we write software that does that reporting as part of its functionality.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Justifiable Homicides at Highest in More Than A Decade
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2008, 05:48:02 PM »
Actually under both the older UCR reporting and newer electronic IBR reporting, police agencies are to report all homicides, including justified. I deal with UCR/IBR on a regular basis at my job as we write software that does that reporting as part of its functionality.

Ah very well, then. I was basing my statement on this:

http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2008/10/justifiable_hom.php
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Fly320s

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Re: Justifiable Homicides at Highest in More Than A Decade
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2008, 06:02:50 PM »
In any case, doesn't the CDC track all deaths regardless of cause?  Or does the CDC get some of it's data from the FBI/UCR/IBR?
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Re: Justifiable Homicides at Highest in More Than A Decade
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2008, 06:49:49 PM »
That is interesting as it does not say anything about feeling your life threatened prior to pulling the trigger.  Burglary is property crime and many states do not support the use of firearms to guard property or enforce your ownership of said property.  Things are changing.  If the statement by the FBI was accurate legally, it certainly opens up new possiblities. 

Many states actually recognize the right of an armed citizen to intervene in the comission of a felony that involves force.
One would argue that rape without a weapon still might involve force and be responded to with deadly force.
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Marnoot

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Re: Justifiable Homicides at Highest in More Than A Decade
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2008, 12:25:41 AM »
Ah very well, then. I was basing my statement on this:

http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2008/10/justifiable_hom.php

I'm only intimately familiar with the technical side and the requirements of reporting. Maybe it's possible some agencies don't report at all to the FBI? All our clients do so I assumed all do; perhaps not. But any agency that submits stats to the FBI has to conform to the specifications for that reporting, which require reporting of justifiable homicide whether by officer or citizen.

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Re: Justifiable Homicides at Highest in More Than A Decade
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2008, 12:54:12 AM »
"Less than a third of (citizen killings) are reported."

I hope that quote was taken out of context.

There is a saying here in the Midwest, "There is a reason why we have so few murders and so many missing persons." :O