Author Topic: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...  (Read 11100 times)

K Frame

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Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« on: October 16, 2008, 03:11:24 PM »
Lovely to see...

Check out the bolded paragraph. Stunning assessment by an analyst.




NEW YORK - Oil briefly plunged below $69 a barrel Thursday, bringing its price to less than half its July record high after the government reported massive increases in U.S. crude and gasoline supplies.

Investors took the news as more evidence that a global credit crisis and a shaky economy are curbing demand for oil, which at one point Thursday fell to its lowest level in nearly 16 months.

At the pump, a gallon of regular gasoline shed another 4 cents overnight to a new national average of $3.084, according to auto club AAA, the Oil Price Information Service and Wright Express. At this rate, the national average could fall below $3 by the weekend.

The selloff in crude came despite an announcement by OPEC on Thursday that it was moving up by almost a month an emergency meeting to discuss oil's rapid drop in value, including whether or not a production cut is needed. The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries will now meet Oct. 24 at its headquarters in Vienna, Austria, instead of Nov. 18.

Oil market traders ignored the statement, convinced that prices are headed lower.

Light, sweet crude for November delivery dropped as low as $68.57 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange before paring some of its losses to trade down $3.14 at $71.40. It was crude's lowest trading level since June 27, 2007.

Crude has now fallen 52 percent since surging to a record $147.27 on July 11. Some energy analysts have predicted oil could fall as low as $50.

Thursday's declines accelerated after the U.S. Energy Information Administration said in its weekly report that crude stocks rose by 5.6 million barrels last week, well above the 3.1 million barrel increase expected by analysts surveyed by energy research firm Platts.

The EIA also says gasoline stock rose by 7 million barrels last week, more than double the build analysts had expected.

Demand for gasoline over the four weeks ended Oct. 10 was 5.2 percent lower than a year earlier, averaging nearly 8.8 million barrels a day, the EIA said.

"This report is playing right into the market's deepest fears, that the economy is slowing down and that demand is going to be nonexistent," said Phil Flynn, energy analyst at Alaron Trading Corp. in Chicago.

While U.S. energy supplies have been swelling because of falling demand, they've also grown as U.S. Gulf Coast energy installations continue to increase production after shutdowns caused by Hurricanes Ike and Gustav. That has helped to further drive down prices, especially for gasoline.

But analysts doubt a production cut by OPEC, which investors view as increasingly likely, would do much to suspend oil's free fall. OPEC's decision last month to cut production by 520,000 barrels a day hardly made a dent in oil prices.

"I think the market has already priced in another 500,000 barrel production cut and it doesn't care," Flynn said.

He said OPEC's decision to move up their extraordinary meeting underscores the cartel's anxiety about oil's stunning drop in value. Analysts believe several OPEC members, particularly Venezuela and Iran, budgeted their national spending based on oil at much higher levels, meaning they'll face substantial revenue shortfalls as prices come down.

"They're panicking," Flynn said. "If they come in and cut production and oil falls to $60, they're going to look like they've lost control, which they have."


Also weighing on prices Thursday was the expiration of November oil contract options at the end of the day, a trading cycle that often increases volatility.

In other Nymex trading, heating oil futures fell 7.7 cent to $2.14 a gallon, while gasoline prices sank by 14.5 cents to $1.6372 a gallon. Natural gas for November delivery rose by 14.1 cents to $7.277 per 1,000 cubic feet.

In London, November Brent crude fell $4.21 to $66.59 a barrel on the ICE Futures exchange.
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slingshot

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2008, 03:29:34 PM »
Pretty good read.  I figured oil would level off at $3.00/gallon but it has continued to decline in price.  Must be those dirty thieving oil companies behind it all!

With the wholesale price of gasoline, I think you will see another $0.40 drop.  At least I'm hoping.
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K Frame

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2008, 03:32:53 PM »
I just want home heating oil to keep dropping.

Mom heats her house with oil, and it was looking kind of frightening what it was going to cost.
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slingshot

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2008, 03:40:20 PM »
I had read predictions that heating oil prices were going to be up significantly this winter.  Doesn't make a lot of sense when the price per barrel is dropping.  I hope prices decline.  The NE is the land of heating oil use. 
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K Frame

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2008, 03:45:27 PM »
Actually, it does make sense.

The oil that is in wholesale storage tanks now, waiting for winter delivery, was refined from crude oil that was purchased at or near its peak price.

That's the way it's always been. Retailers lay in stocks in the summer for delivery in the winter, and generally only purchase more if they really need to.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2008, 03:45:43 PM »
You realize, of course, that some Democrat "community leaders" have already appealed for the courts to step in and get people out of price-lock oil deals they signed into earlier this year for heating oil.

What part of "gamble" is not understood?

El Tejon

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2008, 03:49:48 PM »
Now, now, Mane.  Repeat after me:  socialize the loss. =D
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alex_trebek

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2008, 03:58:43 PM »

Another thing most people don't understand is that fuel isn't "made" from crude, it is separated.  In other words, there is a portion of crude that is gasoline, motor oil, diesel, kerosene, jet fuel, etc.  My guess is that fuel oil (keep in mind I have never even seen it) is probably the left over.  That is, fuel that isn't a high enough quality for jet fuel or kerosene (probably the left over from the separation processes), and therefore probably makes up a small (relatively) percentage of crude oil. 

If that is the case, they probably have to process all year round to meet predicted winter demand, and simply stockpile in the summer.

Balog

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2008, 04:09:58 PM »
Heating oil is exactly the same as diesel fuel. That's why they add red dye to it, to prevent people using it in their cars to avoid fuel taxes.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2008, 04:10:44 PM »
Heating oil is exactly the same as diesel fuel. That's why they add red dye to it, to prevent people using it in their cars to avoid fuel taxes.

Yes. The leftover is bunker oil, a thick, gooey black mess burned only by ships.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2008, 04:21:56 PM by Manedwolf »

K Frame

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2008, 04:11:41 PM »
Uh.... no.

Home heating/fuel oil is one of the fractal derivatives that comes from the cracking process.

It's not a left over, it's a specific target in the cracking process.
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lupinus

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2008, 04:39:55 PM »
Heating oil, kerosene, diesel, all pretty much the same thing which is why dyes are added to it.  Kerosene and heating oil are just generally less well refined and less pure because their applications don't demand it.

Even bunker oil is hard to come by now as I understand it because there is so little leftover after it's refined.
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French G.

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2008, 04:43:46 PM »
Quote
He said OPEC's decision to move up their extraordinary meeting underscores the cartel's anxiety about oil's stunning drop in value. Analysts believe several OPEC members, particularly Venezuela and Iran, budgeted their national spending based on oil at much higher levels, meaning they'll face substantial revenue shortfalls as prices come down.

"They're panicking," Flynn said. "If they come in and cut production and oil falls to $60, they're going to look like they've lost control, which they have."

As what little stock I own is all in commodities I have been acutely aware of that sector's decline. For me that is just play Wall St. money for entertainment/education. If your name is Iran the money is significantly more important. Here on main street when crackheads run out of money they just rob a liquor store. Who knows what extreme of crazy a national level crackhead like Iran will go to when broke. A few years back during oil's run-up Saudi Arabia was actually trying to keep oil prices down to cripple Iran. Looks like they get their wish.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2008, 04:47:11 PM »
Heating oil, kerosene, diesel, all pretty much the same thing which is why dyes are added to it.  Kerosene and heating oil are just generally less well refined and less pure because their applications don't demand it.

Even bunker oil is hard to come by now as I understand it because there is so little leftover after it's refined.

KEROSENE IS NOT THE SAME AS DIESEL!  :O

lupinus

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2008, 04:49:42 PM »
No, not exactly the same.  But very close cousins none the less.
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Tallpine

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2008, 04:52:11 PM »
It must be tough to be an Arab oil sheik and only making $50 billion a year instead of a $100 billion  :rolleyes:

Maybe the US government could bail them out  :laugh:
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Manedwolf

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2008, 04:54:41 PM »
No, not exactly the same.  But very close cousins none the less.

Okay, go put kerosene in a VW and diesel in a Kerosun and tell me how that works out... ;)

Northwoods

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2008, 05:16:11 PM »
Most diesel cycle engines can run on kerosene.  Heck, they'll run on jelly donuts if you tune them right.  They might not like it, but they'll run.
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Bogie

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2008, 05:23:08 PM »
Or buy a small farm, and have your pickup tagged as a "farm vehicle."
 
Then you don't have to worry about the kool-ade cops...
 
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lupinus

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2008, 05:24:06 PM »
Quote
Okay, go put kerosene in a VW and diesel in a Kerosun and tell me how that works out
Not advocating that.  In fact, I advised several people to not do that during my stint at a gas station (ironically, it was always guys in expensive cars, not guys in pickups or smaller diesels).

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just Warren

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2008, 05:36:32 PM »
George Bush is lowering the price because he wants us all to drive more so more folks die in car accidents.
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K Frame

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2008, 06:13:42 PM »
"Okay, go put kerosene in a VW and diesel in a Kerosun and tell me how that works out... "

I've run a John Deere tractor on kerosene quite a few times over the years.
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kentucky_smith

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2008, 06:23:50 PM »
My uncle used to put Kerosene in his tractors to keep the diesel from gelling. 


Our school district is looking at a decent windfall in our budget if gas prices stay low. 


5000 miles per day bus use makes for a heck of a fuel bill in 185 days.   :O

Perd Hapley

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2008, 06:26:15 PM »
Ah, the joys of catching Mike in a spelling gaffe.  Hee-hee.   =)
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K Frame

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Re: Oil is at $70 a barrel and OPEC is panicing...
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2008, 06:28:23 PM »
What spelling error?
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