Author Topic: More about submarines  (Read 7942 times)

RaspberrySurprise

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2008, 07:37:08 PM »
Quote
However, Air Mobility Command, Air National Guard, and Air Force Reserve KC-135s still have their parachutes.   Go figure.

If you're brave enough to belly land a tanker, than you sir are a braver man than I.
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280plus

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2008, 05:42:11 AM »
It slices! It dices!   =D

Only on APS can a thread go from submarines to getting torn to pieces jumping out of an aircraft.  :lol:
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MillCreek

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2008, 08:49:42 AM »
That was one of Gewehr's more memorable turns of phrase, wasn't it?
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Gewehr98

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2008, 09:39:18 PM »
I don't know if it was memorable...

I was going to describe it as either Veg-O-Matic or Pachinko, as far as I was concerned.

I'd still risk a belly landing in a 4-engine or 8-engine heavy than riding in a U-Boat as it was sinking past crush depth. 

I have a retired Navy commander friend who was describing his days in the Silent Service. 

Ever wonder about the second "boom" one often hears on SOSUS hydrophones when a sub dies?

That's the diesel effect as the water pressure compresses the atmosphere in the pressure hull to the ignition point.   :O
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2008, 10:23:16 AM »
Having spent a good many years as a submarine sailor I have to admit I've never heard of that particular effect.
On the other hand it is unlikely anyone would be still alive at that point to witness it.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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dogmush

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2023, 10:16:07 AM »
Thread Necro:

First, some of the names here ain't been seen in a while.

Second,  The Titan implosion thing got me looking at lists of submersible accidents and how bad they can be and still be survivable, and I ran across the bizare end to the sub discussed in this thread:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kim_Wall

Apparently the Danish guy the built it was a few rounds short of a full magazine, and invited a journalist on board in 2017, murdered her, dismembered the corpse, then scuttled the UC-3 in an attempt to hide the crime.  Not really germane to submersible survivability, but weird enough I thought I'd share since we had talked about the sub when it was new.

Ben

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2023, 10:18:07 AM »
Apparently the Danish guy the built it was a few rounds short of a full magazine, and invited a journalist on board in 2017, murdered her, dismembered the corpse, then scuttled the UC-3 in an attempt to hide the crime.  Not really germane to submersible survivability, but weird enough I thought I'd share since we had talked about the sub when it was new.

I think there's even a thread around here somewhere where we talked about it at the time.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2023, 12:06:08 PM »
Thread Necro:

First, some of the names here ain't been seen in a while.

Second,  The Titan implosion thing got me looking at lists of submersible accidents and how bad they can be and still be survivable, and I ran across the bizare end to the sub discussed in this thread:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kim_Wall

Apparently the Danish guy the built it was a few rounds short of a full magazine, and invited a journalist on board in 2017, murdered her, dismembered the corpse, then scuttled the UC-3 in an attempt to hide the crime.  Not really germane to submersible survivability, but weird enough I thought I'd share since we had talked about the sub when it was new.

Just more evidence that submarine sailors "just ain't right".
:D
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Perd Hapley

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2023, 05:06:02 PM »
Thread Necro:

First, some of the names here ain't been seen in a while.

Second,  The Titan implosion thing got me looking at lists of submersible accidents and how bad they can be and still be survivable, and I ran across the bizare end to the sub discussed in this thread:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kim_Wall

Apparently the Danish guy the built it was a few rounds short of a full magazine, and invited a journalist on board in 2017, murdered her, dismembered the corpse, then scuttled the UC-3 in an attempt to hide the crime.  Not really germane to submersible survivability, but weird enough I thought I'd share since we had talked about the sub when it was new.

I remember that, vaguely. It's amazing that a person could go to that length to hide the body, and still be caught.
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WLJ

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2023, 05:14:31 PM »
I remember that, vaguely. It's amazing that a person could go to that length to hide the body, and still be caught.

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230RN

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2023, 06:04:03 PM »
Just more evidence that submarine sailors "just ain't right".
:D


...

I know there are some submariners on this board, but tell ya true, I'd get pretty spooked about riding in any sub.

...

WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

French G.

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2023, 06:32:59 PM »
I kinda regret not seeing the inside of an Ohio class when it was moored next to me and giving tours. It was tied up and the harbor isn’t deep but I still didn’t have much interest. Toured two WWII museum subs, wanted out. Humored all the MEPS people and took all the nuke tests. Turned in top scores of course then adamantly refused any nuke school. Cost myself a ton of money but for all ten years of my sea time I could go see the sun every day. Then in the reserves living in a Marriott and fixing airplanes whenever I wasn’t diving or drinking. Way too claustrophobic for the silent service.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

230RN

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2023, 03:30:38 AM »
Operative words from French G:

"Toured two WWII museum subs, wanted out. "

"...I could go see the sun every day."

"Way too claustrophobic for the silent service."

Ayup.

WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2023, 06:44:30 AM »
Bunch of light weights.
 =D
Just because the walls really are closing in on you is no reason to be claustrophobic.
And seeing the Sun is over rated. That thing will kill you. Longest I went without seeing it was only 89 days and there's nothing wrong with me, that anyone can prove.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

HankB

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2023, 07:16:15 AM »
I kinda regret not seeing the inside of an Ohio class when it was moored next to me and giving tours. It was tied up and the harbor isn’t deep but I still didn’t have much interest. Toured two WWII museum subs, wanted out . . .
When I lived in Chicago, I went through the U-505 at the Museum of Science and Industry a couple of times - it's a German sub captured during WWII. Then when in was in high school, several of us went down to the Chicago lakefront and at Navy Pier there was an old US WWII sub - the USS Runner - tied up next to the pier. A guy just a little older than we were (sea cadet?) popped out of one of the hatches and invited us aboard for a tour. At that time I think it was considered a training vessel, and it must have been just before it was scrapped.

I remember the sea cadet patting a torpedo and saying it "cost as much as two Cadillacs."   Probably he was talking about WWII torpedoes - I'm sure today's torpedoes cost one helluva lot more. (Cadillacs? Probably more like a couple of new Bugattis.)

Both were interesting, but thinking about it, even at that time I knew that the submarine service definitely wasn't for me.
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230RN

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2023, 07:59:23 AM »
Claustrophobia is a clinical term which has been blurred by casual usage. (And I use it loosely, myself.)

Active distrust of, and discomfort in, tight and/or escape-proof spaces is a survival trait.
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

JTHunter

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2023, 04:43:25 PM »
- - - that anyone can prove. - - -

Exactly.  ;/
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JTHunter

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2023, 04:47:34 PM »
When I lived in Chicago, I went through the U-505 at the Museum of Science and Industry a couple of times - it's a German sub captured during WWII. Then when in was in high school, several of us went down to the Chicago lakefront and at Navy Pier there was an old US WWII sub - the USS Runner - tied up next to the pier. A guy just a little older than we were (sea cadet?) popped out of one of the hatches and invited us aboard for a tour. At that time I think it was considered a training vessel, and it must have been just before it was scrapped.

I remember the sea cadet patting a torpedo and saying it "cost as much as two Cadillacs."   Probably he was talking about WWII torpedoes - I'm sure today's torpedoes cost one helluva lot more. (Cadillacs? Probably more like a couple of new Bugattis.)

Both were interesting, but thinking about it, even at that time I knew that the submarine service definitely wasn't for me.

When I was a youngster, we fly from Southern IL-ANNOY on a 4-engine prop job with the triple vertical tail fins (my first time on a plane).  When we got to Chicago, my Mom had to peel me away from the window.  One of the highlights of that trip was seeing that sub.  Fascinating for a 7-8 y.o. =D
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WLJ

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2023, 05:08:30 PM »
When I was a youngster, we fly from Southern IL-ANNOY on a 4-engine prop job with the triple vertical tail fins (my first time on a plane).  When we got to Chicago, my Mom had to peel me away from the window. 
.
=D

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HankB

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2023, 05:58:17 PM »
When I was a youngster, we fly from Southern IL-ANNOY on a 4-engine prop job with the triple vertical tail fins (my first time on a plane).  When we got to Chicago, my Mom had to peel me away from the window.  One of the highlights of that trip was seeing that sub.  Fascinating for a 7-8 y.o. =D
The sub USED to be outdoors, but I think since the last time I was there they put up a building around it.
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Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

230RN

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2023, 06:05:16 PM »
Having spent a good many years as a submarine sailor I have to admit I've never heard of that particular effect.
On the other hand it is unlikely anyone would be still alive at that point to witness it.

It's alsp unlikely that the Dieseling effect would be publicized. a

My first hearing of the Diesel effect was in the Wiki article on the USS Thresher loss.  Diesel ignition occurs in Diesel engines at a compression ratio (Armospheres) of 18-23 to 1.. call it 340 psi.  That twenty atmosphere pressure (340 psi) is reached at a depth of 660 feet.

("For every 33 feet (10.06 meters) you go down, the pressure increases by one atmosphere.")

"Naval historian Norman Polmar, in his book, 'Death of the USS Thresher,' estimated that boat's test depth was 800 to 1,000 feet and that its 'collapse depth' was about 1,200 to 1,500 feet." (~670psi)

...If all seams, welds, rivets, glue joints, steel sections, hatch seals.... were perfect.

Bear in mind that pressure within a vessel is more easily contained than when the vessel is opposing pressure from the outside.  It collapses easier than it bursts.  That's why vacuum cleaner hoses are ribbed for strength.

I know, we've gone over this in the thread on the Titanic sub loss, but I figured it should be here, too.  Slightly different presentation.

Terry, 230RN



« Last Edit: June 24, 2023, 07:21:49 PM by 230RN »
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

WLJ

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2023, 06:07:59 PM »
My first hearing of the Diesel effect was in the Wiki article on the USS Thresher loss.  Diesel ignition occurs in the engines at a compression ratio (Armospheres) of 18-23 to 1.. call it 340 psi.  Twenty atmosphere pressure is reached at a depth of 660 feet.



IIRC pressure at 12K is just less than 6,000 psi
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230RN

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2023, 06:57:50 PM »
IIRC pressure at 12K is just less than 6,000 psi

Where did the 12,000 come from?  They were talking 1,200 feet, USS Thresher-wise.  Are you referring to the Titanic's sunken depth?

I get 5300 psi for 12,000 feet depth, 530 psi for 1,200 feet, not allowing for water density changes... water is slightly compressible, despite the common knowledge that it isn't.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2023, 07:14:13 PM by 230RN »
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #48 on: June 24, 2023, 07:38:17 PM »
12,000 is about the depth of the Titanic wreck

Quote
"Naval historian Norman Polmar, in his book, 'Death of the USS Thresher,' estimated that boat's test depth was 800 to 1,000 feet and that its 'collapse depth' was about 1,200 to 1,500 feet." (~670psi)

My first boat was the same class as the Thresher. We had many valves and assemblies electro pen engraved with "593", the original class designation, after USS Thresher (SSN-593) which was lead boat in the class. When the Thresher was lost the class designation was changed to 594 after USS Permit (SSN-594).
Norman Polmar is/was talking out his fourth point of contact or attempting to not delve in to "classified information".
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

WLJ

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Re: More about submarines
« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2023, 09:03:03 PM »
Where did the 12,000 come from?  They were talking 1,200 feet, USS Thresher-wise.  Are you referring to the Titanic's sunken depth?

I get 5300 psi for 12,000 feet depth, 530 psi for 1,200 feet, not allowing for water density changes... water is slightly compressible, despite the common knowledge that it isn't.

I was comparing to a certain recent event

Thought I heard 5,800 somewhere. I could be wrong about that though
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