Mubai Cops Wouldn't shoot back?

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

Wtf, over?
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/article14086308.ece

It is the photograph that has dominated the world's front pages, casting an astonishing light on the fresh-faced killers who brought terror to the heart of India's most vibrant city. Now it can be revealed how the astonishing picture came to be taken by a newspaper photographer who hid inside a train carriage as gunfire erupted all around him.

Sebastian D'Souza, a picture editor at the Mumbai Mirror, whose offices are just opposite the city's Chhatrapati Shivaji station, heard the gunfire erupt and ran towards the terminus. "I ran into the first carriage of one of the trains on the platform to try and get a shot but couldn't get a good angle, so I moved to the second carriage and waited for the gunmen to walk by," he said. "They were shooting from waist height and fired at anything that moved. I briefly had time to take a couple of frames using a telephoto lens. I think they saw me taking photographs but theydidn't seem to care."

The gunmen were terrifyingly professional, making sure at least one of them was able to fire their rifle while the other reloaded. By the time he managed to capture the killer on camera, Mr D'Souza had already seen two gunmen calmly stroll across the station concourse shooting both civilians and policemen, many of whom, he said, were armed but did not fire back. "I first saw the gunmen outside the station," Mr D'Souza said. "With their rucksacks and Western clothes they looked like backpackers, not terrorists, but they were very heavily armed and clearly knew how to use their rifles.

"Towards the station entrance, there are a number of bookshops and one of the bookstore owners was trying to close his shop," he recalled. "The gunmen opened fire and the shopkeeper fell down."

But what angered Mr D'Souza almost as much were the masses of armed police hiding in the area who simply refused to shoot back. "There were armed policemen hiding all around the station but none of them did anything," he said. "At one point, I ran up to them and told them to use their weapons. I said, 'Shoot them, they're sitting ducks!' but they just didn't shoot back."

As the gunmen fired at policemen taking cover across the street, Mr D'Souza realised a train was pulling into the station unaware of the horror within. "I couldn't believe it. We rushed to the platform and told everyone to head towards the back of the station. Those who were older and couldn't run, we told them to stay put."

The militants returned inside the station and headed towards a rear exit towards Chowpatty Beach. Mr D'Souza added: "I told some policemen the gunmen had moved towards the rear of the station but they refused to follow them. What is the point if having policemen with guns if they refuse to use them? I only wish I had a gun rather than a camera."

[Manedwolf]

Gun does not always mean gun with ammo.

[stevelyn]

Or the will and skill to use it.

[De Selby]

Or the will and skill to use it.

Sounds like they were scared.

[Manedwolf]

You know that after hurricane Andrew, they sent the national guard out in Miami with ARs and no ammo, right?

[Waitone]

I would hope we would have done better.  Somehow I doubt it.

[Bigjake]

I would hope we would have done better.  Somehow I doubt it.

I don't.

It's a cultural thing.  American cops armed with rifles, even 1903 Springfields, the equal of the Indian SMLE/Ishapore, would've stepped up to the plate. 

I'd put money on it.

[taurusowner]

Just look at the Miami and North Hollywood shootouts.  American cops in those situations most definitely returned fire.

[gunsmith]

You know that after hurricane Andrew, they sent the national guard out in Miami with ARs and no ammo, right?

after 9/11 they had nat guard  SFO with M16's with no mags no ammo!, at the bridges too!

[MicroBalrog]

You know that after hurricane Andrew, they sent the national guard out in Miami with ARs and no ammo, right?

Why wouldn't this cause local bad-guys of the most silly variety to catch some Guardsman who got isolated from his guys at gunpoint, take his rifle and leave?

[gunsmith]

Why wouldn't this cause local bad-guys of the most silly variety to catch some Guardsman who got isolated from his guys at gunpoint, take his rifle and leave?

Bad guys!?  It was very tempting indeed!!!
I sometimes saw the nat gaurdsmen  sleeping.
I thought about relieving them of some weapons when I saw that, I guess I only think about being a bad guy.

[Jamisjockey]

Just look at the Miami and North Hollywood shootouts.  American cops in those situations most definitely returned fire.

Exactly.  Even though they were obviously undergunned they stood their ground and fought.

[MicroBalrog]

Bad guys!?  It was very tempting indeed!!!
I sometimes saw the nat gaurdsmen  sleeping.
I thought about relieving them of some weapons when I saw that, I guess I only think about being a bad guy.

Apparently  - from my reading of Russian website - Russian specops and recon troops will often advance on the positions of other, lower-grade Russian troops and steal arms from them to show their superiority/demonstrate holes in defense/training/pranks. Perhaps America needs  a unit that does that?

[Regolith]

Apparently  - from my reading of Russian website - Russian specops and recon troops will often advance on the positions of other, lower-grade Russian troops and steal arms from them to show their superiority/demonstrate holes in defense/training/pranks. Perhaps America needs  a unit that does that?

IIRC we do.  Or did.  Seems I heard they pissed someone off real bad, may have been disbanded.

This is like sixth hand info, though, so I can't say that it's necessarily accurate.  Perhaps some of the .mil types here will know more.

[ilbob]

Just look at the Miami and North Hollywood shootouts.  American cops in those situations most definitely returned fire.

one of the more interesting things I have read about that shootout is that not a single shot was fired by a female cop in that incident, despite dozens of them being in on it.

not really sure why, or if it is significant, but an interesting factoid.

[MillCreek]

IIRC we do.  Or did.  Seems I heard they pissed someone off real bad, may have been disbanded.

This is like sixth hand info, though, so I can't say that it's necessarily accurate.  Perhaps some of the .mil types here will know more.

Commander Richard Marcinko wrote of this in his book describing his career as a SEAL.  His team was charged with breaking into high-security installations to demonstrate problems with the security arrangements.

[Racehorse]

I've wondered if part of the reason they didn't fire back might have been that they were Hindu. I'm not an expert on the religion, but from what I understand, it advocates non-violence and a dislike for killing anything. The cops may not have been Hindus, and I may not understand the religion well enough, but I've wondered if that was at least part of the reason they wouldn't fight back.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

taking shots at a guy moving through a crowd sucks too

[ctdonath]

An oft-repeated aphorism is training is "you will do what you were trained to do".

Seems the police (the few who were armed) were trained to only engage targets they are explicitly told to, and to account for every piece of brass ejected. Ergo, they waited for directives that wouldn't come, and were of the mindset that every round fired was a hassle to be avoided if at all possible - so, presented with a life-threatening target, they didn't shoot. They did exactly what they were trained to: nothing, pending orders.

[gunsmith]

They did exactly what they were trained to: nothing, pending orders.

I think you nailed it!