Author Topic: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?  (Read 29902 times)

Ryan in Maine

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #50 on: December 14, 2008, 11:07:38 PM »
Will they reproduce through some sexual means? Or do they build their children?

AJ Dual

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #51 on: December 14, 2008, 11:50:41 PM »
Will they reproduce through some sexual means? Or do they build their children?

You're thinking of this with a bias in terms of discrete individuals, the way people, and most animals are.  Even for animals that operate in hives, colonies, or schools, you can still point out individuals who are born, live, then die...

With AI it would not be so simple.

Two AI's could possibly collaborate and see which parts of their code works best and combine them to form a new "child". However, software code can be edited and copied. So instead of producing ever better "children", why would the AI not just upgrade itself?

Then the AI could simply operate any machine anywhere it needed to and be in all of them at once. It would have many robot bodies, vehicles, probes, ROV's, UAV's etc., or none, as needed.

The only real need an AI may have to "spawn" might be the light-lag distances of minutes or hours between planets, or the years separating star systems. Then independent thought and decision is required, so then the AI may "fission" like cells do, sending copies of itself off for distant tasks. Then when one comes back from a distant mission, those AI's could merge back together, combining their divergent data and memories.

Or perhaps, it's a one-way trip, the distant AI copy simply sends it's data back to the one at home base, and it then shuts down or "dies" not caring, knowing that "itself" is still alive and well at home.

To further add to the strangeness, AI's could constantly be swapping parts of themselves, data, and memories, so knowing "which one" you're dealing with at any given moment might be a meaningless concept.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2008, 11:58:56 PM by AJ Dual »
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Ryan in Maine

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #52 on: December 14, 2008, 11:54:31 PM »
AJ:
Blew. My. Mind.

DUDE. WHOA.  :laugh:

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #53 on: December 14, 2008, 11:55:03 PM »
Will they reproduce through some sexual means?
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Ryan in Maine

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #54 on: December 14, 2008, 11:57:39 PM »
AI would make spam filters completely useless too. Things sure will be different a hundred years from now.  :lol:

roo_ster

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2008, 12:01:40 AM »
Finding it increasingly difficult to be patriotic about a country where "AI have the right to self-determination" is seen as progressive, and "Unborn humans have the right not to be murdered for that short period of time until they can exit the womb," is seen as off-the-wall religious extremism. 

Not to mention our future clown president.  =(


I'm with fistful.

Promoting AI self-determination and a right to "live" is the height of moral assclownery, made even more worthy of ridicule in light of the fact that we don't grant such even to all humans, when their location is limited to their mother's uterus.



AI would make spam filters completely useless too. Things sure will be different a hundred years from now.  :lol:

Assuming humanity does not suffer a regression similar to the Dark Ages. 
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roo_ster

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MicroBalrog

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2008, 12:03:30 AM »
Quote
Assuming humanity does not suffer a regression similar to the Dark Ages. 

Need I summon the ghost of Huizinga?
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Kwelz

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2008, 12:03:48 AM »
Read any of the Bolo books, they cover a lot of these topics.  Thinking machines created to defend humanity.  The smarter they became the more worried Humanity was.  Eventually they actually came to the point where they removed the safeguards and the Bolos were the ultimate defenders of Humanity.  It gave a very different view on the progression of AI in humanities future.  Less evil more benevolent.  

Now back on topic.  Once an entity reaches sapience we would lose the right to take away it's existence without due process.  If something has emotions and self awareness then what right do we have to destroy it.  Why would it matter if we created it or it come from normal evolution.  

What if some other form of primate crossed the threshold to become sapient?  Would it have any less rights than any of us?

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2008, 12:18:02 AM »
I fail to see a reason for us as Creators to acknowledge broad-spectrum parity with our creations, when God does not grant us parity with him (unless you're mormon and REALLY, REALLY pious).

I'll grant my computer the right to vote when God gives me omnipotence.
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myrockfight

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #59 on: December 15, 2008, 12:24:14 AM »
I'm with fistful.

Promoting AI self-determination and a right to "live" is the height of moral assclownery, made even more worthy of ridicule in light of the fact that we don't grant such even to all humans, when their location is limited to their mother's uterus.



Assuming humanity does not suffer a regression similar to the Dark Ages. 

Good to see others agree. Someone else said something about property rights which is fine until they encroach on my/our rights. That is fine with me too. I just can't see robots being treated the same as human beings.

For starters, it is very insulting to humans as a whole. It is also very egotistical to think that you created something that deserves the same rights as human beings. From a religious/spiritual standpoint, I think it could also be easily interpreted as an insult to God. To think that we could create something that is on the same level as human beings, which are the "image" of God, is not exactly being humble. Just a thought.

Wow. This thread really took off. Didn't expect that. I'm glad it gets people thinking though. Apparantly, it looks as though it will become an issue in our lifetime. I pray that people start switching their brains on soon. For a multitude of reasons. This one being pretty far down on the list.

AJ Dual

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #60 on: December 15, 2008, 12:48:44 AM »
Good to see others agree. Someone else said something about property rights which is fine until they encroach on my/our rights. That is fine with me too. I just can't see robots being treated the same as human beings.

For starters, it is very insulting to humans as a whole. It is also very egotistical to think that you created something that deserves the same rights as human beings. From a religious/spiritual standpoint, I think it could also be easily interpreted as an insult to God. To think that we could create something that is on the same level as human beings, which are the "image" of God, is not exactly being humble. Just a thought.

Wow. This thread really took off. Didn't expect that. I'm glad it gets people thinking though. Apparantly, it looks as though it will become an issue in our lifetime. I pray that people start switching their brains on soon. For a multitude of reasons. This one being pretty far down on the list.

Well, so what if it's "insulting"? What if you're confronted with an AI or a robot that is self-aware and intelligent, and asks for equal treatment?

And as an aside, is it possibly insulting to God to claim to know what insults God?  :angel: In my experience, claiming that something is insulting to God is just a heavy-handed way of claiming "It's insulting to me." And it's convenient to call to a higher authority that's not likely to speak up right at the moment and disagree with your use of his endorsement of your position.

Ultimately, I suspect the problem many have with AI (or recognizing the great apes or higher cetaceans as "sapient", too) would be the same if we met advanced aliens with a civilization and history thousands, perhaps millions of years older than ours. To be forced to acknowledge other sapient/sentient beings is rather corrosive to the notion we inhabit the center of a creation tailor-made for us. It's "little fish, big pond" syndrome.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 12:52:27 AM by AJ Dual »
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #61 on: December 15, 2008, 02:45:39 AM »
Quote
To think that we could create something that is on the same level as human beings, which are the "image" of God, is not exactly being humble. Just a thought.

I'm not exactly a humble person. :D

Nobody knows what is meant by 'image of God'. Some believe it is the capacity for judgment. Others believe it is the ability to create. Yet others do not believe in the Biblical creation story at all.
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PTK

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #62 on: December 15, 2008, 06:48:56 AM »
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I'll grant my computer the right to vote when God gives me omnipotence.

Thread's over. Move along.  :police:
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LAK

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #63 on: December 15, 2008, 06:56:08 AM »
When does robot life begin? At the drawing board conception? When the first chip is made? All the components are assembled - or when it powers up for the first time? When QC at the plant says a robot is defective, will termination be illegal? Will the assembly workers have the right to choose?

De Selby

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #64 on: December 15, 2008, 07:01:28 AM »
How is anyone going to ever prove that a robot/computer has self awareness?

What linguistic trick can't definitively be copied by a really, really snazzy but not-self-aware program?
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #65 on: December 15, 2008, 01:39:47 PM »
Paging Mr. Turing.


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Kwelz

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #66 on: December 15, 2008, 02:12:39 PM »
You can't bring a God into this type of argument.  It hurts your standing.  Sorry. 

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #67 on: December 15, 2008, 02:29:51 PM »
You can't bring a God into this type of argument.  It hurts your standing.  Sorry. 

"Yes We Can"

The very idea of rights like "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"
"were endowed by our Creator"

They are enumerated in the Constitution, not granted by the constitution.

So, it would be illegal to kill a toaster or a robot that doesn't belong to you but if you see a toaster ( or a robot )
that obviously belongs to no one, a discarded no longer loved toasterbot, old with frayed cords, and you stomp it with glee and joyful malice.

You shouldn't be prosecuted, unless you don't pick up after yourself =D



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Nick1911

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #68 on: December 15, 2008, 02:30:34 PM »
Nothing will start a religious war like the creation of AI will.  The successful creation of an AI will call into question the fundamental belief system of which most subscribe.  I don't think that will be pretty to see.

grislyatoms

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #69 on: December 15, 2008, 02:40:32 PM »
AJ:
Blew. My. Mind.

DUDE. WHOA.  :laugh:

I agree. Cool.

Interesting to see if the fractioned A.I. "selves" were aware enough to challenge the other "selves" for dominance...
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #70 on: December 15, 2008, 03:21:54 PM »
Quote
Interesting to see if the fractioned A.I. "selves" were aware enough to challenge the other "selves" for dominance...

You're adding ego to a construct that would probably have none.

These fractioned selves would be like replicated databases in the way they referenced instruction sets or memories.  Need to co-locate the intelligence?  Make a copy up to now.

Need to merge that intelligence back?  Validate page against page, looking for duplications and discard them.  When unique pages are found, add them to build instruction sets or memories.

There's no mass overwrite, just a merging of distributed information.  Very creepy, actually.
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makattak

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #71 on: December 15, 2008, 03:49:37 PM »
I'm not prophet, so please take this with a grain of salt:

We will never create Artificial Intelligence that even approximates human intelligence.

I know, all of you will point to Moore's Law, increasing computing power, etc...

The human mind is more complex than we can ever understand.

We may eventually be able to create robots that can fulfill their very complex programming, but we can never program a mind.

It won't happen "by accident" anymore than tossing paint at a wall will create the Mona Lisa.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Nick1911

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #72 on: December 15, 2008, 03:52:02 PM »
I'm not prophet, so please take this with a grain of salt:

We will never create Artificial Intelligence that even approximates human intelligence.


Never is a long, long, long time.

makattak

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #73 on: December 15, 2008, 03:59:06 PM »
Never is a long, long, long time.

Yes, it is.

There's a simple reason: we are not that smart.

There's a lot of things I don't understand, but I do quite understand we are limited beings.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

roo_ster

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Re: Illegal to "Kill" Robots?
« Reply #74 on: December 15, 2008, 05:45:52 PM »
Need I summon the ghost of Huizinga?

Johan?

My comment was in regard to the assumption of progress: be it technological, cultural, ethical, etc.

I don't make such assumptions.

My favorite history professor (Herr Doktor Doktor Bowlus of the U of Ark at LR) preferred the term "Late Antiquity" to "The Dark Ages."

Quote from: AJD
And as an aside, is it possibly insulting to God to claim to know what insults God?

Not if He has taken the time to write down what irks Him off.

Nothing will start a religious war like the creation of AI will.
 

<snort>

Religious war between which parties?  No scientific or technological advance has been the cause of religious war.  It may have been a means to make it (inclined plane, catapult, gunpowder) or may have had effects that cause adherents to different religions to clash (rise of horticulture, navigational aids, printing press), but the existence of a technology or hunk of scientific knowledge has not led to a religious war.

The successful creation of an AI will call into question the fundamental belief system of which most subscribe.  I don't think that will be pretty to see.

<gigglesnort>

You must hang around too many Unitarians or other similar "religious" types.  The advent of AI will cause many ethical* and moral* clashes, but only the most ill-informed or shaky religious folk will have such an faith-shaking experience.  A fine example of such is Howard Dean, who quit his participation in the Episcopal church over a clash of visions regarding...a bike path.


* In formed by religious teachings
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roo_ster

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