Author Topic: What say you? Purple heart for PTSD (Read 4692 times)

Grandpa Shooter · « **on:** January 06, 2009, 07:06:42 PM »

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/06/ptsd.purple.heart/index.html

There is more but this is the meat of it.

The Purple Heart medal, awarded to service members who have been physically wounded in combat, will not be given for a diagnosis of post-traumatic stress disorder, a Pentagon statement said.

Soldiers suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder will not receive the Purple Heart, the Pentagon says.

The decision, which was made in early November but just made public this week, came after months of deliberations sparked by a question on the topic posed to Defense Secretary Robert Gates during a Pentagon briefing in May.

"[It's] clearly something that needs to be looked at," Gates said in response to the query. His answer prompted a review by the Defense Department's Awards Advisory Group, made up of "award experts" in the Pentagon.

After the review, Undersecretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness David Chu examined the advisory group's findings and determined that service members with PTSD alone would not be eligible for the award, according to Pentagon spokeswoman Eileen Lainez. Gates agreed with the decision, Lainez added.

Thousands of service members are at risk for or have been diagnosed with PTSD after serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to Pentagon statistics. The Department of Veterans Affairs estimates that up to 11 percent of Iraq veterans and 20 percent of Afghanistan veterans have PTSD.

"The Purple Heart recognizes those individuals wounded to a degree that requires treatment by a medical officer, in action with the enemy or as the result of enemy action where the intended effect of a specific enemy action is to kill or injure the service member," according to a statement released by the Pentagon.

Don't Miss
U.S. deaths in Iraq down 66 percent
U.S. to send 3,000 more troops to Afghanistan
"PTSD is an anxiety disorder caused by witnessing or experiencing a traumatic event; it is not a wound intentionally caused by the enemy from an 'outside force or agent' but is a secondary effect caused by witnessing or experiencing a traumatic event," the statement continued.

The Defense Department statement noted that historically, Purple Heart designations are awarded for bodily injuries from "an outside force or agent," which is considered an objective standard. It also cited other Purple Heart award criteria and 76 years of precedent as other factors in deciding when to bestow the honor. The medal has never been awarded for psychological conditions, it said.

Currently, the department explained, PTSD is not diagnosed "as objectively or routinely" as would be required for the award.

I am not sure about this. I have read in the past about this being considered but don't really know how I feel about it. Back in Desert Storm they gave out Bronze Stars to clerical and supply clerks for speeding up requisiton and distribution of materials. I know one of the guys who got one. He hated to admit it because he thought it was disrespectful to real combat award recipients. Is this the same deal?

The Purple Heart award puts veterans in a different category of care than other non recipients, I know that. I guess it depends on whether or not our government is going to step up and provide the level of services veterans deserve.

Headless Thompson Gunner · « **Reply #1 on:** January 06, 2009, 07:07:24 PM »

I say 'no'.

Fly320s · « **Reply #2 on:** January 06, 2009, 07:12:29 PM »

I also vote no, as if my opinion matters.

digitalandanalog · « **Reply #3 on:** January 06, 2009, 07:17:24 PM »

I say skip the award and get them the treatment they really need.

I heard a very disturbing piece of "news" National Propaganda Radio (NPR) last year that really pissed me off.

It seems that Unkie Sam is trying to downplay just how badly PTSD can really screw someone up and they are doing all kinds of things to deny treatment for it.

I have never been in the military, but I have suffered the effects of PTSD for about three years. I know what it is like and it is unfair to make a soldier serve in a war zone and then say, "Well, tough on your mental problems that you got from your decision to volunteer your life to your country and government."

The simple fact is that PTSD is treatable, not curable. You have it for life. These people who offered their government their lives should at the very least be given what they need to have as normal a life and mind as possible.

geronimotwo · « **Reply #4 on:** January 06, 2009, 07:19:59 PM »

while i believe ptsd is very real and can be disabling, it would lead to a large amount of vets getting the medal, and thereby make it's value not nearly as great.

Lennyjoe · « **Reply #5 on:** January 06, 2009, 07:23:24 PM »

Quote

I say skip the award and get them the treatment they really need

I agree

Balog · « **Reply #6 on:** January 06, 2009, 08:17:51 PM »

Speaking as a vet with PTSD I say HELL NO! Get them better treatment, but don't sully the award for those genuinely injured or killed.

Gewehr98 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 06, 2009, 08:33:53 PM »

Nein for the Purple Heart.

Ja for better treatment.

vaskidmark · « **Reply #8 on:** January 06, 2009, 09:22:36 PM »

PTSD does not rate a Purple Owie Medal. I say that based on the written qualifications. http://www.americal.org/awards/ph.htm Read the "Qualifications" section - "battle fatigue" (now known as PTSD) is specifically excluded. I'm pretty much against changing the rules to allow PTSD as a qualifying injury, but understand that my thinking on the issue is clouded by survivor's guilt which is a part of my PTSD. I'd like to see what others with the diagnosis but no physical wound say about the question.

REMFS doing exceptional paperwork or repair work can qualify for the Bronze Star of A/N/MC/AF/CG Achievement/Commendation Medal without trhe combat star device.

Ask me what a 2-star thinks of a REMF standing tall in formation who refuses a Navy Commendation medal for "expeditious repair of teletype equipment" while others are getting the same for typrwriter repair and error-free (97% or better) Morning Reports. Then ask me what the Division Sergeant-Major thinks of the 2-star for chewing out the REMF. (OK, that was in RVN, but I'll bet they are still handing out medals in the sandboxes.)

stay safe.

skidmark

* edited for typo - corrected "would" which should have been "wound".

crashresidue · « **Reply #9 on:** January 07, 2009, 01:55:18 AM »

As a two tour Nam dog who is undergoing PTSD counseling - and one who turned down a "Purple Heart" for a "scalding oil burn" that ran from my knee to my ankle (tripped over a popcorn popper dashing to the bunker durning a motar attack) I'd have to say NO.

PLLEASE - don't demean the medal. I, too, got a "Bronze Star" for meritorious service - it makes me ashamed! If the Army wanted to give me an "atta-boy" - shake my hand and tell me "I done good". That's all I want.

Firethorn · « **Reply #10 on:** January 07, 2009, 06:53:17 AM »

I have to agree with everybody else - keep the purple heart for combat injuries.

By all means, treat the mental issues. But keep the medal for those that were physically hit.

myrockfight · « **Reply #11 on:** January 07, 2009, 08:25:20 AM »

crashresidue,

One of my teachers in high school had a story like that where they wanted to give him purple heart for an injury received (tripping over a fence and eating it on #3 grade rock) while running buck naked across the base, in the pitch black dark that night, during a mortar attack. It was a lot funnier to hear him tell it.

He was a funny guy. Lanny Lancaster.

z

Anywho. I have no "dog in the hunt" per se other than my family has served in every major conflict the U.S. has engaged in. Here is a blog from another soldier's viewpoint: http://www.soldiersperspective.us/2008/05/14/purple-heart-for-ptsd/

The only way I could see a Purple Heart being awarded for PTSD is if the disorder was 100% disabling. It would give an amount of respect to the soldier who would have none left and explain how serious his particular sitation is. But then that potentially opens the door to a host of other problems as to who should be awarded, I would assume.

Those are a couple of thoughts I had on the subject. Not that they carry any water compared with the Vets posting here.

BTW- Thanks for your service guys!

Hell. I wouldn't even have been born if it weren't for the events which unfolded during and after WWII. Knowing and understanding my family's story and how my Grandfather's generation sacrificed so much in relation to WWII helps put what current families are going through with the current conflict. It can be really hard on you guys. My hat's off to you.

I also appreciate the fact, as per the bumper sticker, that I am not writing this in German, Japanese, Spanish, or any other language.

HankB · « **Reply #12 on:** January 07, 2009, 08:38:43 AM »

My father received a minor shrapnel wound from Jap fire during WWII, and he didn't get a Purple Heart because the wound was minor and he was treated & stitched up after the aircraft returned to base on what would be called an "outpatient" basis today.

Shell shock, Battle fatigue, or PTSD does not merit a reward.

Jamisjockey · « **Reply #13 on:** January 07, 2009, 08:47:31 AM »

Quote

Ask me what a 2-star thinks of a REMF standing tall in formation who refuses a Navy Commendation medal for "expeditious repair of teletype equipment" while others are getting the same for typrwriter repair and error-free (97% or better) Morning Reports. Then ask me what the Division Sergeant-Major thinks of the 2-star for chewing out the REMF. (OK, that was in RVN, but I'll bet they are still handing out medals in the sandboxes.)

Threadjack!!

My first formation at MCAS* Yuma was to listen to some damn H&HS* pukes get NAMs* for 90%+ accuracy during an SRB audit.
<blink><blink>
I was an Air Traffic Controller. Do you know what would happen if I only had 90% accuracy in my job.....?
It just so happened that the same H&HS pukes were the ones who handled processing awards. I knew of an ARFF* puke who rushed into a burning UH1 to pull the crew chief out. I personally watched that one from the tower and was listed as a witmess in the writeup. Yep, you guessed it....the same H&HS department rejected the application....IIRC it was for the NAM.
Eventually SOMS* and H&HS were merged, and the SOMS SgtMjr. went through that shop with an iron fist

For the laypeople:
*Marine Corps Air Station
*Headquarters & Headquaters Squadron
*Navy Achievement Medal
*Airfield Recovery and Fire Fighting
*Station Operations and Maint. Squadron

And count me as a "no", PTSD does not merit the PH.

Balog · « **Reply #14 on:** January 07, 2009, 11:32:34 AM »

NAM's are actually appropriate for doing well in training and such, if I recall correctly. I know my old section leader got one for doing well running the mortars in a CAX shoot. I'd think risking life and limb to save someone would rate something higher than a NAM.

coppertales · « **Reply #15 on:** January 07, 2009, 11:57:22 AM »

NO.....I have seen too many people faking it for disability money.......follow the money........chris3

WhiteTiger · « **Reply #16 on:** January 07, 2009, 12:06:22 PM »

Unless things have changed a whole lot, I don't believe the PH is handed out for having a heart attack in combat either. Seems the same to me with PTSD, since the other folks also present and subject to the same combat stress "incoming" aren't awarded if they don't develop PTSD.

Treatment, yes, awards, no, in my book.

Tiger

Scout26 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 07, 2009, 12:30:01 PM »

No.....

wmenorr67 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 07, 2009, 10:13:34 PM »

No!!!!!!!!!!!!

Grandpa Shooter · « **Reply #19 on:** January 08, 2009, 12:33:29 AM »

Some of the research being done now is expressly aimed at seeing if there are factors of personality, psyche, education, handedness, or upbringing which in some way "predispose" certain people to PTSD. I know back in the Vietnam era there was little if any connection made between Traumatic Brain Injury and PTSD, and yet what is now known is that they are almost inextricably intertwined.

It remains to be seen whether or not there will ever be a true recognition or acceptance of responsibility for the condition the troops come home in. Look at how many years dragged on before the government took any responsibility for the wide ranging effects of Agent Orange. I fear these military actions are going to breed their own disabling factors.

I don't think I am ready for PTSD to be a qualifier for The Purple Heart either.

Hawkmoon · « **Reply #20 on:** January 08, 2009, 10:45:36 AM »

PTSD is not a wound. It doesn't merit a Purple Heart.

I'm a Vietnam vet. I have friends who EARNED Purple Hearts, by being wounded in action. That is the criterion, and that should always remain the criterion.

They have other awards for "feel good" stuff. I received two Army Commendation Medals, for example. So did a raft of other guys. Basically, the ACM was handed out like Halloween candy, mostly (IMHO) as PR from the DoD to the folks back home with the intent of making the efforts of us normal troops who just did our jobs and didn't cause too many problems seem more "heroic." I haven't pulled mine out a read the award language for several decades, but there's a bunch of clap-trap in there about meritorious service in the allied counter-insurgency effort, blah-blah-blah. I wasn't any hero, but the award language makes keeping my head down and my nose clean sound a lot more important than it felt at the time.

I think the ACM is about what's appropriate for PTSD, nothing higher. No Bronze or Silver Star, and certainly not the Purple Heart.

Firethorn · « **Reply #21 on:** January 08, 2009, 11:35:59 AM »

Quote from: Hawkmoon on January 08, 2009, 10:45:36 AM

I think the ACM is about what's appropriate for PTSD, nothing higher. No Bronze or Silver Star, and certainly not the Purple Heart.

Except PTSD isn't an achievement. It's an illness/psychological condition.

The 'reward' for getting PTSD should be treatment, not a medal/ribbon.

jackdanson · « **Reply #22 on:** January 08, 2009, 01:15:41 PM »

Yeah, make sure they are treated well, reserve PH for those physically wounded. IMHO almost every solider who goes into a combat zone will have PTSD to some level.. I don't believe giving them all medals will make it better. And what about the guys that aren't effected by PTSD as much? Did they sacrifice any less? It just gets too convuluted.

Werewolf · « **Reply #23 on:** January 08, 2009, 05:24:57 PM »

NO:

The guys who served in combat who didn't get PTSD went thru the same stressful situations as those who served in combat and do suffer from PTSD.

Why one soldier gets it and another doesn't? Who knows? But to give a medal to one who gets PTSD and nothing to the guy who didn't but served under equally stressful condidtions but wasn't wounded is just wrong.

[tongue in cheek]Wonder what Patton would say?

Grandpa Shooter · « **Reply #24 on:** January 08, 2009, 05:58:01 PM »

Quote from: Werewolf on January 08, 2009, 05:24:57 PM

NO:

The guys who served in combat who didn't get PTSD went thru the same stressful situations as those who served in combat and do suffer from PTSD.

Why one soldier gets it and another doesn't? Who knows? But to give a medal to one who gets PTSD and nothing to the guy who didn't but served under equally stressful condidtions but wasn't wounded is just wrong.

[tongue in cheek]Wonder what Patton would say?

This is central to some of what I have dealt with for nearly 40 years. Why one person and not another? In many cases, the guy without PTSD saw far worse than others of us who have it. Why? Wish I knew. My hope is that the folks coming home now get IMMEDIATE care from somewhere.

News:

Author Topic: What say you? Purple heart for PTSD (Read 4692 times)