Author Topic: The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial  (Read 4041 times)

Seymour Skinner

  • Guest
Irwin Schiff was convicted on October 24th by quite possibly an even stupider jury than the Alameda County jury that concluded a year or so ago that a gun was "defective" because you had to disengage the safety to pull back the slide (like all 1911s).  Schiff's jury was told that "if you don't convict, you're breaking the law."

Irwin Schiff's book "The Federal Mafia" was actually banned by these federal nazis in 2003 (there was an interim though where I bought two copies Wink )  Many are unable to face the fact that we live under massive tyranny that would ban a book.  Most do not even know that it occurred because of a very well controlled and manipulated media.

The "judge" in Schiff's trial, amazingly wouldn't allow Irwin to discuss the law!  He even held Irwin in contempt of court for discussing the specifics of the law anyway.

This may be the most flagrantly illegal behavior by the federal kangaroo "courts" in one case that I have ever seen.

This is sad and very disturbing.  I will warn you right now, that if you read this, any rose colored glasses you may have on will unavoidably be ripped from your eyes.  Irwin Schiff

I expect the predictable sheepish statements from some like "well I guess he should have just paid his taxes" or "well, if they found him guilty, he must be."

The fact is, that Irwin Schiff has the type of courage that you don't see anywhere in this country anymore.  Not to mention the fact that he is correct in his very well researched legal arguments.  He correctly used the law to fight off the open criminals at the IRS (who brazenly violate federal law and their own policies every day) for decades.

This "trial" was a coordinated "hit" by the government using a very corrupt judge (who openly colluded with federal attorneys).

I suspect that this will bounce off most people like usual.  Most will rationalize it in some way to make themselves feel better (that's all that matters anyway, right?) so they don't have to confront and accept the painful reality.  Gee, and we wonder why tyranny continues unabated rolleyes .

We're too cowardly to hang together, so we're hanging separately (with help from our stupidest and weakest fellow sheep that sit on juries who are only intelligent enough to hand out over the top million dollar awards in liability suits).



This whole case makes me think of these quotes:


it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it. -Patrick Henry's warning from the speech of March 23, 1775

"To preserve [the] independence [of the people,] we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we run into such debts as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our callings and our creeds, as the people of England are, our people, like them, must come to labor sixteen hours in the twenty-four, give the earnings of fifteen of these to the government for their debts and daily expenses, and the sixteenth being insufficient to afford us bread, we must live, as they now do, on oatmeal and potatoes, have no time to think, no means of calling the mismanagers to account, but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves [as government employees] to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow-sufferers." --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Kercheval, 1816. ME 15:39

"If the American people ever allow the banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation, and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property, until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power of money should be taken from banks and restored to Congress and the people to whom it belongs. I sincerely believe the banking institutions having the issuing power of money, are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Let us contemplate our forefathers, and posterity, and resolve to maintain the rights bequeathed to us from the former, for the sake of the latter. The necessity of the times, more than ever, calls for our utmost circumspection, deliberation, fortitude, and perseverance. Let us remember that `if we suffer tamely a lawless attack upon our liberty, we encourage it, and involve others in our doom.' It is a very serious consideration...that millions yet unborn may be the miserable sharers of the event." --Samuel Adams, speech in Boston, 1771

AND NOW MY FAVORITE:

If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.  Samuel Adams
 Irwin's other very good and (so far) UNbanned books are available at http://www.paynoincometax.com

Gewehr98

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 11,010
  • Yee-haa!
    • Neural Misfires (Blog)
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2005, 01:00:41 PM »
Who?  What?  Huh?
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

http://neuralmisfires.blogspot.com

"Never squat with your spurs on!"

Brad Johnson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,113
  • Witty, charming, handsome, and completely insane.
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2005, 02:04:56 PM »
Irwin Schiff is the guy who has been advocating that the govt has no Constitutional basis for levying income taxes. Do an internet seach. Schiff has a long history, much of it consumed with other individuals suing him because they followed his "theories" and it ruined them.

He has a lot of enthusiasm, and I can't fault his gripe against the feds, but his theories and tactics run the gamut from mildly questionable to downright freaky.

Masterpiece (or Seymour, or whaterver your real name is), I just went back and read all your posts. You might want to seek some counseling there, buddy. Most of your stuff is pretty 'out there', and certainly not the kind of screaming, rightous indignation you normally see for someone who's been a member of the forum for what, 37 whole days?

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,540
  • I Am Inimical
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2005, 03:17:56 PM »
"I just went back and read all your posts."

If I knew your address, Brad, I'd send you a bottle of Advil and a bottle of Pepto to quell your aching head and queasy stomach.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

Seymour Skinner

  • Guest
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2005, 11:40:18 PM »
Oooo, I've been declared "out there" by the Brad.   Oooo, my opinions don't meet his specifications as indexed by my membership on the board, so that MUST mean they are invalid.   Hmmm, what to do.  

Brad Johnson, or BJ (boy now there's some initials I'm glad I don't have cheesy. Sorry, I get giddy and playful when talking with children), sure likes to speak in one word conclusions with no specifics, while judging that others need counseling.  That's why he's my buddy Wink

Hey Mikeman, don't throw those stones too hard, at least Brad reads things BEFORE he makes non specific misleading comments about them Tongue.  

BTW BJ, since I believe in responding with specifics, you mischaracterized (lied?) what Irwin Schiff has written as "theories."  There is nothing theoretical about what is in the U.S. code.  Irwin has always said that the law is actually our friend (he even sells copies of the U.S. code on http://www.paynoincometax.com).  He has never once taught a "theory."  He shows chapter and verse what the law says, what the supreme court has long ruled, and simply compares that to the blatant illegal activity of the IRS.  He cites chapter and verse of IRS policy and explains how to plan for the fact that IRS constantly violates even it's own rules.  Not only that, but you also (lied?) mischaracterized that Irwin says that the U.S. government doesn't have constitutional basis to levy income taxes.  That is 180 degrees from what Irwin says.  It's not even in the ballpark.  You ought to spent at least half the effort you spend on spreading falsehoods, instead on a little bit of accuracy.

You've got plenty of company BJ, because most posters on this board don't look past the surface either before they comment and pass judgement.  Holy moly just take a look at my thread about strategic threats. Nearly every responder just made up things about an article I posted, then pretended they were in the article.  I guess because they were just too dumb to actually read it first and figured I wouldn't notice or something rolleyes.

Preacherman

  • Senior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 776
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2005, 11:50:51 PM »
Masterpiece, you have e-mail.
Let's put the fun back in dysfunctional!

Please visit my blog: http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2005, 02:12:32 AM »
I might be on the same page wiht some of his desires, beliefs, etc., but Schiff has a little problem:
Just, plain,
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

El Tejon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,641
    • http://www.kirkfreemanlaw.com
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2005, 03:16:46 AM »
I hate the IRS more than anyone here.  However, Irwin is off his rocker and has convinced himself that his alternate reality is reality.
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

Ron

  • Guest
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2005, 04:07:14 AM »
Years ago I used to go to anti-income tax meetings where I beleive he was one of the gurus that was leading the charge against the IRS.

Something about the 16th amendment never being ratified and not volunteering to pay taxes etc..

The upside to those meetings is that is where I discovered material from FEE, The Foundation For Economic Freedom.  For years I received the Freeman magazine and I was exposed to books by  von Misis, Hazlit,  Bastiat and others.

I figured if there was anything to the whole anti-income tax movement something would have broke their way by now.  Pitty, I hate the whole concept of an income tax.





Edit to change 13 to 16, duh!

mtnbkr

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 15,388
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2005, 04:33:47 AM »
Quote from: El Tejon
I hate the IRS more than anyone here.  However, Irwin is off his rocker and has convinced himself that his alternate reality is reality.
For a minute there, I thought you were talking about Mike Irwin.  I was going to agree with you. Tongue

Chris

Glock Glockler

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2005, 06:16:36 AM »
Schiff might very well be nuts but he is rather sane compared to our court system, why is it that he was not even allowed to discuss the law that he was on trial for breaking?  I don't know the specifics about his book being "banned" but that should be headline news and we should be taking to the streets if such a blatant violation of the 1st Amendment occured.  

The focus on Schiff is an false flag, the focus should be on the corrupt legal system.

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,540
  • I Am Inimical
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2005, 06:24:36 AM »
"For a minute there, I thought you were talking about Mike Irwin.  I was going to agree with you."

Butt munch.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.


Hey Masterpiece Arms, since you're such an advocate of Mr. Schiff, are you following his advice regarding taxes?

And I ask again, what time is your revolution? Are you going to be able to get out from under the bed in time to lead it?
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

BryanP

  • friendly hermit
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,808
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2005, 09:26:53 AM »
His claim is that the 16th amendment was never properly ratified.  Every year some idiot claims that this (false) "fact" makes the income tax unconstitutional and decide they don't have to pay taxes.  They end up in jail, oddly enough.

If you don't like the law, change it.  Don't spread lies about the existing law.  It serves no purpose other than to ... oh, yeah.  Sell books.  Wink
"Inaccurately attributed quotes are the bane of the internet" - Abraham Lincoln

El Tejon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,641
    • http://www.kirkfreemanlaw.com
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2005, 11:34:56 AM »
No, Mike Irwin is actually quite sane and witty.  However, he does go completely bonkers when we bring up Smith & Wesson.

Maybe it has something to do with corporate or excise taxes and Smith?
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,540
  • I Am Inimical
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2005, 11:40:57 AM »
"No, Mike Irwin is actually quite sane and witty."

Excellent. Fooled another one...
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

Paddy

  • Guest
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2005, 12:36:11 PM »
As much as I am completely opposed to the entire notion of a tax on income, including the huge, complex bureaucracy that administers it, and the corrupt politicians who write the legislation, I have to say that only someone on the lunatic fringe would actually believe there is some legal loophole to avoid them.

stevelyn

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,130
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2005, 10:05:23 PM »
Quote
.."if you don't convict, you're breaking the law."
It would appear that the jury really didn't understand their true role, and was coersed (sp) into voting for a guilty verdict regardless of the evidence under a veiled threat of legal sanctions if they voted otherwise.
Another victory for the public scrool system turning out ignorant citizens who have no idea what their duties as citizens are.

Judges and prosecutors are adamently opposed to fully informed juries because they can use this ignorance to manipulate juries into voting for an outcome that they favor without questioning the law itself, whether it's over the question of taxation that may be illegal, or an "offense" as benign as a seatbelt "violation".angry
Be careful that the toes you step on now aren't connected to the ass you have to kiss later.

Eat Moose. Wear Wolf.

El Tejon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,641
    • http://www.kirkfreemanlaw.com
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2005, 02:56:07 AM »
Hmmm, what we need here is an example of a deranged individual.  Hey, Mike, tell us about Smith & Wesson.Cheesy
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2005, 03:16:33 AM »
Quote
I hate the IRS more than anyone here.
Don't be so sure. You've probably never had the IRS freeze your checking account with the $140 you had in there for the gas and electric bill and then after 20 days of trying to straighten it out have them tell you on the phone it was all straightened out and then seize the money anyways. "Oh, they (the orders) must have crossed paths." Not to mention I could never talk to the same guy twice and every one of them had a last name that was a color. Mr Brown, Mr Gray, Mr Black, Mr Green. Honest to friggin God. Oh, and they kept "losing" the fax I repeatedly sent them Until I wrote on the one I sent on the twentieth day, "THIRD COPY FORWARDED, DO NOT LOSE!!" in black marker on the blank area. I then called them immediately and asked them, "Did you get it?" and in a very unfriendly tone he says, "Yeah,,,,, we got it." Wink

Lately I see them as more of a "worthy" adversary than anything else. I'll keep as much as I can from them legally and call it a good time.
Avoid cliches like the plague!

El Tejon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,641
    • http://www.kirkfreemanlaw.com
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2005, 06:05:20 AM »
280, ummm, how about the IRS NOT CREDITING you with the $48,000 you paid toward your federal taxes?
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

charby

  • Necromancer
  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29,295
  • APS's Resident Sikh/Muslim
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2005, 06:23:12 AM »
I hate paying taxes, but at least some of the money I pay in taxes goes for some good services.

I just wish we had a flat tax with no write offs, special deductions, earned income credit, etc on all earned income.

charby

p.s. to mr Masterpiece Arms, I wouldn't get into a fight with Mr Irwin he would probably kick your a$$ up in down the hall in retoric. Arguement yes, all out childish fight? Your not going to win.
Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

Team 444: Member# 536

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2005, 08:34:13 AM »
Quote
280, ummm, how about the IRS NOT CREDITING you with the $48,000 you paid toward your federal taxes?
I could see that being a bit of an annoyance... shocked. But was that ALL your money? They took ALL my money, so what if it was only $140. LOL...

Cheesy
Avoid cliches like the plague!

El Tejon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,641
    • http://www.kirkfreemanlaw.com
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2005, 12:10:37 PM »
280, O.K. if talking percentages, you win, sir.

However, I still slightly miffed!:D

charby, put me down as a national sales tax guy.  Tap into the underground economy and leave producers alone!
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2005, 12:36:22 PM »
Quote
280, O.K. if talking percentages, you win, sir.

However, I still slightly miffed!
Cheesy

I hope they straightened it out for you?

Let me continue the story a little. Now understand that was a while ago when $140 meant a little more. But I had gone to the bank drive thru early before regular hours that morning to take out $20 for pocket cash, meaning lunch mostly. Then after the bank opens at 9 I get a frantic call from them saying my account was frozen and I had to come AND GIVE THE $20 BACK!! And if I don't it comes out of the teller's pocket. So the immediate effect was no lunch. Then came the frantic efforts to get my $ back. I just found it hard to believe that they would go to such lengths to keep my measley $140. And for the icing on the cake, at that time I was paying off an arrearage to the state on child support accumulated when they gave my ex the $ she needed to take my kids and leave me. I had to pay all that back. Anyhow, because of that they were confiscating any returns I was getting from my income tax. So although I DID receive the money back in my next refund the STATE took it and applied it to my arrearage.

Funny story huh?

I didn't mean to make light of your $48,000 fiasco though, I would be "a little miffed" myself. Actually, I'd probably be a raving maniac. Did it work out in the end? I imagine your time and aggravation was probably not very well compensated by .gov either way.
Avoid cliches like the plague!

charby

  • Necromancer
  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 29,295
  • APS's Resident Sikh/Muslim
The Income Tax Gulag, Irwin Schiff convicted in an openly sham trial
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2005, 01:03:22 PM »
Badger

I like that idea too, be hard at first to tax all non food sales transactions such as internet sales and internationals purchases, but sounds great in simplicity.

Charby
Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

Team 444: Member# 536