*Action Alert* Ban of Youth Motorcycles and ATVs!

[Frank Castle]

Stop the Ban of Youth Motorcycles and ATVs!


Write your Representatives and the Consumer Product Safety Commission Today!
On August 14th, 2008, Congress passed the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act of 2008 (CPSIA).  Intended to make children's everyday toys safer, the rule governing implementation of the act threatens to end youth off-highway vehicle (OHV) riding entirely.

According to section 101(a) of the enacted legislation, all youth products containing lead must have less than 600 parts per million (ppm) by weight.   The Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) has interpreted the law to apply to various components of youth OHVs including the engine, brakes, suspension, battery and other mechanical parts.  Even though the lead levels in these parts are small, they are still above the minimum threshold.

The unavailability of youth OHVs will devastate family OHV recreation and cripple amateur competition, creating a domino effect across all aspects of motorized recreation.

In order to assure continued availability and access to youth OHVs, the Motorcycle Industry Council (MIC) and Specialty Vehicle Industry Association (SVIA) submitted petitions to the CPSC asking that certain vehicles be excluded from the final rule governing the law.

It is critical that Congress and the CPSC know the petition exists and that they act on it to maintain a vital form of recreation for American families, preserve youth racing and protect the thousands of jobs associated with this industry.

Please write or call your Representative and the CPSC today and ask them to approve the petition to exclude youth OHVs from the CPSIA lead content requirements.

You can send your Representative a letter by using the 'Take Action' option.  To contact the CPSC directly, use their contact form

http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/rapidresponse.asp



 

[RocketMan]

This is fast getting out of hand.  The CPSC itself needs to be checked for lead content.  I'm guessing that with all the lead-bottomed bureaucrats infesting the place, the PPM count there will be outrageously high.

[mtnbkr]

This is fast getting out of hand.  The CPSC itself needs to be checked for lead content.  I'm guessing that with all the lead-bottomed bureaucrats infesting the place, the PPM count there will be outrageously high.

A guy on my local mtb board is a CPSC employee (IT guy) and claims this is being overblown and companies are needlessly panicking.  Of course, it's not his business under fire and his opinion on the matter means exactly squat.

I didn't follow the link, but unless they've changed their plans, Honda is pulling out of the youth motorcycle market over this.

Chris

[BlueStarLizzard]

alright, someone is gonna have to explain this to me... i know nothing of ATVs or Youth Motorcycles.


i thought the lead consern comes from little kids eating stuff the shouldn't. so i understand the CPSC attaking childrens books, clothing and toys (understand, not agree!).

however, wouldn't kids involved in ATVs and Motorcycles be old enough not to eat parts of their vehicle and, generally, under adult supervision?

also, if they are going after 'youth models' in ATV/M, does this mean they'll go after the firearms manufactured as 'youth models'?

[HankB]

also, if they are going after 'youth models' in ATV/M, does this mean they'll go after the firearms manufactured as 'youth models'?

No, only the "youth model" ammunition.

[Manedwolf]

I didn't follow the link, but unless they've changed their plans, Honda is pulling out of the youth motorcycle market over this.

Good.

The more manufacturers pull out of markets, the more people will realize that excessive regulation denies them the things they enjoy, and the more likely they are to finally put their foot down and vote right.

Stupid consumer laws? Honda pulls out of that market.

Microstamping? No SIG, Glock, etc...for that state.

Companies are starting to say "No. We won't comply. We just won't sell our stuff there." That's good.

Take away stuff, and people might begin to notice.

Because if this current course continues, next will be doctors saying "No,", and then hardworking people putting down their tools and saying "No."

[mtnbkr]

alright, someone is gonna have to explain this to me... i know nothing of ATVs or Youth Motorcycles.


i thought the lead consern comes from little kids eating stuff the shouldn't. so i understand the CPSC attaking childrens books, clothing and toys (understand, not agree!).

however, wouldn't kids involved in ATVs and Motorcycles be old enough not to eat parts of their vehicle and, generally, under adult supervision?

also, if they are going after 'youth models' in ATV/M, does this mean they'll go after the firearms manufactured as 'youth models'?

You're absolutely right.  The intent of the law was to protect children from lead exposure.  That generally comes from illicit lead in paints, etc that are ingested.  Nobody expects a child to gnaw on his Honda CR50, but with the way the law is written, it affects Honda as if they do. 

Chris

[mtnbkr]

Good.

The more manufacturers pull out of markets, the more people will realize that excessive regulation denies them the things they enjoy, and the more likely they are to finally put their foot down and vote right.

The problem is, *people* get it, but they've got to get the CPSC to *get it*.  So far, the response has been "oh we won't pursue xxx".  However, as we all know, everything the govt does is backed up by threat of force, implied or otherwise.  If the CPSC decides you are in violation and they have the time and money to pursue you, they will.  Safer to just pull out of a market until they rewrite the regulation than risk the huge fines under this law.

Chris

[Manedwolf]

The problem is, *people* get it, but they've got to get the CPSC to *get it*.  So far, the response has been "oh we won't pursue xxx".  However, as we all know, everything the govt does is backed up by threat of force, implied or otherwise.  If the CPSC decides you are in violation and they have the time and money to pursue you, they will.  Safer to just pull out of a market until they rewrite the regulation than risk the huge fines under this law.

Chris

I just mean that people might actually start missing stuff enough to demand that bureaucracy-happy agencies be reworked. Which is a good thing.

[MicroBalrog]

Wow guys. Your country looks more and more like mine with every second.

[mtnbkr]

Wow guys. Your country looks more and more like mine with every second.

Yup.  No need for you to move here. :D

Chris

[MicroBalrog]

Yup.  No need for you to move here. :D

Chris

This was sort of my point. :|

[crt360]

I don't remember chewing on my RM80 too much as a kid, at least not on purpose.

I would imagine that it's going to affect most if not all bicycles made for kids, too.  As much as I like youth motorsports (despite new stuff being ridiculously expensive), I think the elimination of bicycles for children would be even more shocking, although I have heard nothing about it.

[Brad Johnson]

As a kid I had a Honda XR 80 that I put a jillion miles on.  I never chewed on it, though it tried to gnaw on me a couple of times.

Brad

[Firethorn]

I'm curious, as far as I know lead isn't a component used in anything but the battery for motorcycles and ATVs, right?

Wouldn't one solution(if somewhat expensive) be to simply replace the battery with a nickle or lithium one?

That's assuming there isn't actually something buried in the legislation that would cause the law to not apply, of course.

[Jimmy Dean]

I'm curious, as far as I know lead isn't a component used in anything but the battery for motorcycles and ATVs, right?

Wouldn't one solution(if somewhat expensive) be to simply replace the battery with a nickle or lithium one?

That's assuming there isn't actually something buried in the legislation that would cause the law to not apply, of course.

Lead is used in the steel, helps with the maleability of it.

[Brad Johnson]

Lead is used in the steel, helps with the maleability of it.

Most motorcycle frames are mild or chrome-moly steel.  Lead alloys, while more formable for some processes, are too heavy compared to other alloys, and too soft to take the beating a motorcycle frame endures.

Brad

[Nick1911]

Lead is used in the steel, helps with the maleability of it.

Also in some aluminum alloys. (2xxx series)  But I think that alloy is pretty uncommon in automotive applications.

Wouldn't one solution(if somewhat expensive) be to simply replace the battery with a nickle or lithium one?

Well, it would cost much more.  And, ironically, the Cadmium in NiCad batteries is way nastier then lead, IMO.  (Think "Cancer".)

[Firethorn]

Also in some aluminum alloys. (2xxx series)  But I think that alloy is pretty uncommon in automotive applications.

That's what I was thinking

Well, it would cost much more.  And, ironically, the Cadmium in NiCad batteries is way nastier then lead, IMO.  (Think "Cancer".)

I know it'd cost more; thus my comment.  Still 'It's for the CHILDREN!!!!'.   

Cadmium msds:CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Classified A2 (Suspected for human.) by ACGIH, 2 (Reasonably anticipated.) by
NTP.
The substance is toxic to kidneys, lungs, liver.
Lead msds:CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Classified A3 (Proven for animal.) by ACGIH, 2B (Possible for human.) by IARC.
May cause damage to the following organs: blood, kidneys, central nervous system (CNS).

On the 'much more' point; from my research NiCD/NiMH cells tend to be around twice the cost of lead-acid per wh of capacity.  Given the low internal resistance, you wouldn't need as much wh of capacity to deliver sufficient wattage to start the motor.  It wouldn't be as disturbed running dry, either.

LiIon would be ~4 times the cost, but again, you don't need as 'big' of a battery to deliver enough juice for starts and stuff.

[Nick1911]

On the 'much more' point; from my research NiCD/NiMH cells tend to be around twice the cost of lead-acid per wh of capacity.  Given the low internal resistance, you wouldn't need as much wh of capacity to deliver sufficient wattage to start the motor.  It wouldn't be as disturbed running dry, either.

LiIon would be ~4 times the cost, but again, you don't need as 'big' of a battery to deliver enough juice for starts and stuff.

Fair enough. Sulfication isn't an issue with NiCad, Lith-Ion.  I'm not sure how the internal resistance compares.  (I've made a Craftsman 1/2 inch wrench glow before with lead acid, though...)

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

The Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) has interpreted the law to apply to various components of youth OHVs including the engine, brakes, suspension, battery and other mechanical parts.  Even though the lead levels in these parts are small, they are still above the minimum threshold.



can someone show me this interpretation? i can't find it

[taurusowner]

Good.

The more manufacturers pull out of markets, the more people will realize that excessive regulation denies them the things they enjoy, and the more likely they are to finally put their foot down and vote right.

Stupid consumer laws? Honda pulls out of that market.

Microstamping? No SIG, Glock, etc...for that state.

Companies are starting to say "No. We won't comply. We just won't sell our stuff there." That's good.

Take away stuff, and people might begin to notice.

Because if this current course continues, next will be doctors saying "No,", and then hardworking people putting down their tools and saying "No."

Exactly right.  These Looters want to live in a world where all of their fantasies and whims have come true.  But they fail to see that it is those who think and produce who actually create the world we and they live in, and that their fantasies hurt the people who they rely on to keep their fantasy world propped up.  Once those of us who actually keep the gears of the world moving say no, their fantasy world will crash.  Hopefully upon their heads.

[Firethorn]

Fair enough. Sulfication isn't an issue with NiCad, Lith-Ion.  I'm not sure how the internal resistance compares.  (I've made a Craftsman 1/2 inch wrench glow before with lead acid, though...)

How big of a lead acid battery were you using?  Internal resistance for NiCD is lower than NiMH than alkaline.  I'm not disputing that you would most likely have a battery pack consisting of 10 or 20 d-cell sized cells in parallel.

[digitalandanalog]

I say we protect all of humanity from that harmful lead.

Blow up the planet and sent it all into outer space

[KD5NRH]

Fair enough. Sulfication isn't an issue with NiCad, Lith-Ion.  I'm not sure how the internal resistance compares.  (I've made a Craftsman 1/2 inch wrench glow before with lead acid, though...)

Good old NiCd batteries have their issues, but they'll source current like you wouldn't believe.  I once started a Dodge with a completely dead battery in a minor emergency by using a handful of old-but-fully-charged NiCd AAs.  IIRC, only a couple were actually ruined by the process, too.

Granted, we'd have been hosed if it hadn't caught on the first try, but it did prove the value of southern engineering