Author Topic: WWII Sub reports...  (Read 3739 times)

280plus

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WWII Sub reports...
« on: March 09, 2009, 03:57:22 PM »
A link to all WWII Sub patrol reports. Thought it might interest some of you.

http://hnsa.org/doc/subreports.htm
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geronimotwo

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Re: WWII Sub reports...
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2009, 05:43:41 PM »
that is some neat stuff.  i like how they were able to go from laying the keel to commissioning the ship in less than a year.   how long do the current subs take?
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Gewehr98

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Re: WWII Sub reports...
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2009, 06:04:47 PM »
Looks like the skipper and crew of the USS Muskellunge weren't too keen on their newfangled electric torpedoes:

http://issuu.com/hnsa/docs/ss-262_muskallunge?mode=a_p 

 :O
« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 02:49:20 PM by Gewehr98 »
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Mabs2

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Re: WWII Sub reports...
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2009, 07:04:48 PM »
Oh neat, I <3 the old diesel boats.  Going to have to check this out eventually...
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280plus

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Re: WWII Sub reports...
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2009, 09:06:52 PM »
Torpedoes were a pain in the *** back then I guess. First they wouldn't explode at all and then they explode just after coming out the tube. I'll bet they went through their share of skivvies on that run!!  :laugh:
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Scout26

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Re: WWII Sub reports...
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2009, 09:51:19 PM »
Torpedoes were a pain in the *** back then I guess. First they wouldn't explode at all and then they explode just after coming out the tube. I'll bet they went through their share of skivvies on that run!!  :laugh:

Then there were the ones that circled back and sank the sub that launched 'em.   
I just finished reading a pretty good book about LCDR Dick "Killer " O'Kane and the USS TANG called Escape from the Deep: A Legendary Submarine and Her Courageous Crew by Alex Kershaw about a month ago. 
« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 10:34:13 PM by scout26 »
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TommyGunn

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Re: WWII Sub reports...
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2009, 12:41:31 AM »
That's pretty cool.  I found my father's sub,  USS Cavalla  hull 244.  A "leap year" Sub -- Commissioned 2/29/44.  He served on board in 1953 after it had been recommissioned as a "hunter killer" from a "Gato."
The sub actually still exists; it's embedded in sand at Pelican Island in Texas at a museum, though a film clip I saw on a History Channel documentary shows it to be in bad condition.
I had the opportunity to go aboard the Cavalla while it was docked at the U.S. Navy sub pen in Connecticut back in the 1960s.   

From what I recall the problems with torpedos back then were traced back to using an incorrectly weighted dummy warhead during tests.  When the torpedoes were loaded with the real warheads they traveled at a deeper depth than programmed and went underneath enemy ships.

My father once told me that the torpedoes used alcohol in the propulsion system and some of the sailors would drink it, refering to it as "torpedo juice."  The response was to put epicac in the alcohol to make the imbibing sailors throw up.  They retaliated by straining the epicac out with bread.

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MechAg94

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Re: WWII Sub reports...
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2009, 02:32:09 PM »
I thought the torpedoes were supposed to go deep and explode beneath the keel?
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Gewehr98

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Re: WWII Sub reports...
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2009, 02:47:55 PM »
Yes.

The idea is to break the ship's back with the overpressure as the torpedo passes and detonates directly underneath the keel.

If you watch some attack footage where the technique's done correctly, you'll often see the ship heave out of the water amidships and flex/break as the torpedo overpressures the hull and the displaced water then rushes back in.  The combination of overpressure, momentary lack of buoyancy via the gas bubble, and then the water hammering back into position does more damage to a ship's structural integrity than just blowing a hole in the side. 

Here's a very good example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwWzFSePevw

Too deep, though, and there's not enough force applied to get the job done.

So if you can't get a torpedo to detonate directly under the keel, it's better to be too shallow, and impact/detonate directly, than too deep, and basically waste a good torpedo.
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Manedwolf

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Re: WWII Sub reports...
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2009, 03:03:27 PM »
I had toured a WWII sub in SF, but I forget which it was. Here, there's the testbed Albacore, and in CT, the Nautilus. Both are worth a look. Both are in very good condition, too.

Albacore is amusing, because it was such an evolutionary design and things were tested and evaluated on every refit, apparently. The forward head is pure WWII, one of the after ones is highly polished stainless steel with a fold-down commode and integral shower and washing sink. Here's some pictures that you won't see on the site.

Really small office!


The contrast on the same boat. Forward head:


vs aft head:



Balog

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Re: WWII Sub reports...
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2009, 03:09:19 PM »
I'm debating my co-workers. Are modern American sub hulls made of Ti, or is that just Russian subs?
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: WWII Sub reports...
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2009, 04:52:39 PM »
Interesting stuff. Spent 12 years in the Submarine Service, assigned to two different Fast Attack boats.
It is a different world. Nothing but respect, admiration and awe at what the WWII sub sailors did.

I don't know about the Seawolf class but the boats I served on were both made of HY80 steel, I think they went to HY130 or some such on the 688 boats. The scuttlebutt was that Ti got brittle after too many deep dives but the steel hulls would still spring back.

WWII torpedoes had contact detonators at least for the early part of the war. The John Wayne movie Operation Pacific gives a resonably accurate if hollywoodized description of the problems they had with the early fish.
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Hutch

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Re: WWII Sub reports...
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2009, 06:09:04 PM »
Afaik, the only Ti hull subs were the Soviet Alfa class.  IIRC, some of the Sovs called them Goldfish, due to the brutal cost.  They were very deep diving, and very, very fast.  They were also relatively noisy, as well.
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Parker Dean

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Re: WWII Sub reports...
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2009, 09:33:02 PM »
I thought the torpedoes were supposed to go deep and explode beneath the keel?

That was the idea even before WWII. Early experiences indicated that the magnetic exploder was a huge pile of junk, so then everybody went to try the contact exploders. The torps still didn't work like they should and it was decided that they ran deeper than set, which was true but wasn't the whole problem. After the deeper-than-set issue was corrected for, it was found that the contact exploder was as big a pile of junk as the magnetic exploder and would literally jam internally if the torp hit perpendicular to the target. With angle hits it would still work. By the end f the war they finally got the torps working like they should both ways.


280plus

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Re: WWII Sub reports...
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2009, 07:42:26 AM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_B._Momsen

"During the Second World War, Momsen served as Commander, Submarine Squadron 2 and Commander, Submarine Squadron 4.[1] While Momsen was Squadron 2 in the Pacific Fleet, the submarine skippers kept reporting that their torpedoes were not behaving correctly. When fired from the prescribed perpendicular angle, the torpedoes did not always explode. When fired from non-perpendicular angles, the torpedoes exploded. When Momsen's own squadron complained, he decided to find out why. He took torpedoes to the shallow waters and sheer cliffs of the Hawaiian Island of Kahoolawe and fired until he got a dud. Then, risking his own life, he dove into the water to find the unexploded torpedo. With help, he recovered the dangerous live torpedo and brought it on board. A small problem with the pin inside the primer cap was causing the problems."

You can see thesame equipment he developed and used to raise the Squalus at the Sub Museum in Groton. Very interesting place.

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