Author Topic: The Food Revolution (Read 5862 times)

Ben · « **on:** March 22, 2009, 12:42:39 PM »

From the New York Times. The article is too long to completely post. I'm actually all for organic or locally grown food. Or to be more specific, I'm all for food choices. Part of conventional "agri-business" is producing large quantities of affordable food, and I'd hate to see that reduced. The part of the article I thought was a little weird was:

Quote

n mid-February, Tom Vilsack, the new secretary of agriculture, took a jackhammer to a patch of pavement outside his headquarters to create his own organic “people’s garden.” Two weeks later, the Obama administration named Kathleen Merrigan, an assistant professor at Tufts University and a longtime champion of sustainable agriculture and healthy food, as Mr. Vilsack’s top deputy.

"People's garden"? That's sort of like what the Ukraine was on a large scale for the USSR, right? That's a stupid term to be throwing around IMO.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/22/business/22food.html?_r=2&hp

Werewolf · « **Reply #1 on:** March 22, 2009, 01:08:09 PM »

Choices...

All about choices.

We can eat food grown in crap that is bug eaten, smaller and maybe as nutritious.

OR

We can eat food grown using scientifically developed fertilizers, bug resistant, large and healthy.

Choices.

Personally I choose the stuff grown by science over that grown in crap.

lupinus · « **Reply #2 on:** March 22, 2009, 05:01:57 PM »

Werewolf-

I believe in a happy middle ground of growing the right types for the environment they are grown in, in the best soil, with chemicals applied as needed but not in over abundance. This is how I set up my gardens and I gurandamntee you the vegetables I can produce in my back yard are often times bigger, healthier, better for you, and taste better then anything you will find outside of a speciality store that sells basically the same thing.

Most modern mega farm varieties are bred for looks, size, ease of growing, and the ability to ship and hold well for a long time. Nutritional value is of second concern for most of these strains, with the exception of some staples such as wheat or other grain where they come in a closer second. Flavor is often a distant third.

41magsnub · « **Reply #3 on:** March 22, 2009, 05:03:47 PM »

Quote from: lupinus on March 22, 2009, 05:01:57 PM

Werewolf-

I believe in a happy middle ground of growing the right types for the environment they are grown in, in the best soil, with chemicals applied as needed but not in over abundance. This is how I set up my gardens and I gurandamntee you the vegetables I can produce in my back yard are often times bigger, healthier, better for you, and taste better then anything you will find outside of a speciality store that sells basically the same thing.

Most modern mega farm varieties are bred for looks, size, ease of growing, and the ability to ship and hold well for a long time. Nutritional value is of second concern for most of these strains, with the exception of some staples such as wheat or other grain where they come in a closer second. Flavor is often a distant third.

Good example: tomatoes.

Gowen · « **Reply #4 on:** March 22, 2009, 06:10:31 PM »

I'm not even close to a health nut, but I have a big problem with ConAgra's Round Up ready GMO seeds. Do a little research on it, I cannot justify putting something like that in my children's bodies.

Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas · « **Reply #5 on:** March 22, 2009, 06:14:41 PM »

The Secretary of Agriculture's a bleeping Luddite?

Leatherneck · « **Reply #6 on:** March 22, 2009, 06:33:17 PM »

Probably not, but maybe.

Those who can, grow your own.

Those who can't, find a local farmer's market.

Meanwhile, enjoy the luxury of fresh melons in February, flown in from the southern hemisphere.

TC

Gewehr98 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 22, 2009, 08:48:55 PM »

There's a huge difference in the quality and flavor of the heirloom tomatoes grown in my backyard each year, and what you buy in the produce section of the local grocery store.

I use sterilized cow manure to till into the garden plot each spring, btw.

My dad uses horse manure "tea", which is horse manure in a 55-gallon drum, topped up with water, and allowed to steep in the summer sunlight. He fills the watering can from the spigot in the bottom of the drum...

Nitrates - they're what's for dinner.

Antibubba · « **Reply #8 on:** March 23, 2009, 12:08:26 AM »

"People's Garden" is pretty wacko, though. Better to call it an "Energy Independence Garden", or a "Liberty Garden".

Ben · « **Reply #9 on:** March 23, 2009, 12:57:32 AM »

Or heck, even just call it a "garden". :)

What bothers me is they make it sound like this is a great new fad as if no one ever before has grown their own backyard gardens, stopped at a stand at the side of the road, or went to the local farmer's market.

Both my parents grew up on farms in Europe that were little more than "big gardens" and that's where 90% of their food came from. Here in the good old USA, there used to be a book that was pretty popular -- "Five Acres and Independence". Local food is hardly a new theme -- but somehow "hip" now.

charby · « **Reply #10 on:** March 23, 2009, 08:18:16 AM »

Quote from: 41magsnub on March 22, 2009, 05:03:47 PM

Good example: tomatoes.

Yep, my heirloom tomatoes grown in my backyard pesticide free and commercial fertilizer free taste 1000% better than any tomato you can buy at the produce section of the grocery store.

I fertilize with horse manure and do mechanical pest control. I see a tomato worm, I pull it off and squish it.

Werewolf · « **Reply #11 on:** March 23, 2009, 10:45:07 AM »

Quote from: Charby on March 23, 2009, 08:18:16 AM

I fertilize with horse manure and do mechanical pest control. I see a tomato worm, I pull it off and squish it.

A very doable practice in a home garden - try taking that bit of care with a 1000 acres or so planted in tomatos. :rolleyes:

Think we've got a problem with illegals now? We'd need millions more of 'em to hand pick worms off of each tomato.

Organics cost more than scientifically grown for a reason.

charby · « **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2009, 11:39:20 AM »

Quote from: Werewolf on March 23, 2009, 10:45:07 AM

A very doable practice in a home garden - try taking that bit of care with a 1000 acres or so planted in tomatos. :rolleyes:

Think we've got a problem with illegals now? We'd need millions more of 'em to hand pick worms off of each tomato.

Organics cost more than scientifically grown for a reason.

If done correctly 40 acres of land in vegetables should yield more profit than 1000 acres of corn and soybeans.

fspitzdorf · « **Reply #13 on:** March 23, 2009, 12:07:32 PM »

Seeing as I am a small scale produce farmer.... Who grows I guess minimally with pesticides and herbicides... I have a dog in this fight...

BTW.. it isn't ConAgra that developed the RR genetics... That'd be Monsanto... When one speaks of GMO then one needs to look at nearly everything today... All Hybrids are products of genetic manipulation through breeding...

As far as profits... Take sweet corn for example.. I plant the best seed money can buy in order to produce the best corn that you'll ever eat. treated seed is about $20 / lb... anywhere from 2500 - 3500 seeds / lb depending upon variety and seed size. I plant 23,000 seeds / acre in population. End up with 85 - 90% germination and final stand... I average about 1400 - 1500 dozen per acre and sell retail for about $4 / doz...

Input cost with a bit of starter fertilizer, fuel costs, machinery depreciation and repair, seed costs and such comes to about $200 - $250 / acre... Plus I have to hand harvest it all and get it to market... If I add a cooler to bring the temp down after harvest for longer holding the input costs would rise dramatically... I am small enough that I don't have to hire much help to harvest.

Now you want to see BIG profit numbers... visit a pumpkin grower... It is continually amazing that someone will pay $5 - 7 for a 30 lb orange pumpkin that will get some holes cut in it and will rot away... Pumpkins are by far my largest profit margin... 3X that of sweet corn...

But for all of that profit I work 7 days a week... From the time I get home from my regular job until past dark most days... As well as sometimes a few hours in the morning before heading off to work... Produce farming is extremely labor intensive.. Especially if you chose to not partake in all of the modern chemistry available...

zahc · « **Reply #14 on:** March 23, 2009, 12:07:49 PM »

Quote

I'm not even close to a health nut, but I have a big problem with ConAgra's Round Up ready GMO seeds. Do a little research on it, I cannot justify putting something like that in my children's bodies.

Why? My dad grows GMO soybeans. I know a lot of people disagree with them because they hate Monsanto, but I didn't know people actually thought the beans were bad for you.

AJ Dual · « **Reply #15 on:** March 23, 2009, 01:03:14 PM »

Quote from: zahc on March 23, 2009, 12:07:49 PM

Why? My dad grows GMO soybeans. I know a lot of people disagree with them because they hate Monsanto, but I didn't know people actually thought the beans were bad for you.

Yes, there are three tiers to those who oppose GM foods.

- Farmers and segments of Agri-business who do not like the commercial/legal/regulatory implications of GM foods for whatever reasons. I see some truth in the complaints, at least in terms of how some farmers who've been cross-contaminated by GM crops of their neighbors have been sued by the GM companies for "stealing" GM crops.

- A loose grouping of Leftists, Anarchists, and Environmentalists who dislike GM foods because they hate big business, think the third-world should be given everything for "free", or that it can expand modern farming even further, or accidentaly create an invasive species of plant. I do see some validity to the concerns that over-reliance on one particular GM crop could cause famine, should the producing country or company fail etc.

- Tin-foil nutters who think a frost resistant tomato with a fish gene in it will make their kids grow extra arms.

Gewehr98 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 23, 2009, 01:46:48 PM »

3 or 4-armed kids would be great for picking crops...

GeoJAP · « **Reply #17 on:** March 23, 2009, 02:00:50 PM »

I planted my own garden this year. If there is serious economic dislocation, I'll be ready. Two 4'x9' raised beds. Tomato plants in the foreground raised bed. Squash, watermelon, okra, snap beans and corn in the background bed. Peppers, cilantro and eggplant are in the small pots. I plan on doubling the garden's size next year. All organic. I'm planning on canning some of the vegetables also.

I can tell the squirrels and I are going to have to go to war. They are nothing more than cute rats and they were eating my squash and okra seeds.

GeoJAP · « **Reply #18 on:** March 23, 2009, 02:02:43 PM »

Quote from: zahc on March 23, 2009, 12:07:49 PM

Why? My dad grows GMO soybeans. I know a lot of people disagree with them because they hate Monsanto, but I didn't know people actually thought the beans were bad for you.

Studies have been done (and then suddenly had their funding cut) where second generation mice who were fed GMO corn were sterile. That is, the parents were fed GMO corn, and the kids were sterile. Google it. I still eat GMO corn and vegetables (it's hard not to), but I'm just pointing out what the study returned.

AJ Dual · « **Reply #19 on:** March 23, 2009, 02:40:43 PM »

Quote from: GeoJAP on March 23, 2009, 02:02:43 PM

Studies have been done (and then suddenly had their funding cut) where second generation mice who were fed GMO corn were sterile. That is, the parents were fed GMO corn, and the kids were sterile. Google it. I still eat GMO corn and vegetables (it's hard not to), but I'm just pointing out what the study returned.

I did.

Can you find me a cite that's not from an "anti globalization" website, such as a serious peer-reviewed science journal, and does not cite things like "mysterious Russian studies" etc...?

GeoJAP · « **Reply #20 on:** March 23, 2009, 03:33:33 PM »

Quote from: AJ Dual on March 23, 2009, 02:40:43 PM

I did.

Can you find me a cite that's not from an "anti globalization" website, such as a serious peer-reviewed science journal, and does not cite things like "mysterious Russian studies" etc...?

I found it pretty quickly. This web page cites all the scientists and Austrian offices/research centers in the study. Again, I'm not totally against GMO food because there are a lot of harmful man-made things in our environment, and this is just one of them. But knowing about what you are putting in your body is important, I think. Like I said, I still eat GMO vegetables from my HEB grocery store. But it is what it is.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_15588.cfm

AJ Dual · « **Reply #21 on:** March 23, 2009, 04:10:44 PM »

Quote from: GeoJAP on March 23, 2009, 03:33:33 PM

I found it pretty quickly. This web page cites all the scientists and Austrian offices/research centers in the study. Again, I'm not totally against GMO food because there are a lot of harmful man-made things in our environment, and this is just one of them. But knowing about what you are putting in your body is important, I think. Like I said, I still eat GMO vegetables from my HEB grocery store. But it is what it is.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_15588.cfm

Thanks, that's much better. Considering the source, "organicconsumers.org", one might still be suspicious, but it is better. The links they cite are often in German etc. So I've not been able to suss out what the protocol was, how much were the mice fed, what they were fed besides the corn (if anything) and what counted as a decrease in fertility.

The study could still have completely unrelated causes, such as the control group being closer to a window and getting more light. Or, the GM corn, instead of making something "bad" or toxic to rodent reproduction could be lacking some nutrient, protien, or enzyme that negatively affected their fertility. Especialy if the diet was 100% corn. Something that would not bother an omnivore with a broad diet in the least. Or even a poor batch of corn grown in poor soil that was lacking in some mineral...

:|

The scientists urging "caution" and not going too far with this study are darn right to say so.

doczinn · « **Reply #22 on:** March 23, 2009, 08:58:24 PM »

Why do we even have a Secretary of Agriculture?

charby · « **Reply #23 on:** March 24, 2009, 12:03:14 AM »

Quote from: doczinn on March 23, 2009, 08:58:24 PM

Why do we even have a Secretary of Agriculture?

So the former f-up of a governor of Iowa can get a job.

Gowen · « **Reply #24 on:** March 24, 2009, 12:13:24 AM »

Charby, you forgot to add, "of either party".

News:

Author Topic: The Food Revolution (Read 5862 times)